Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

If there is a 'normal' derailment within the Belfast facility, will other trains be able to exit Belfast to enter service as scheduled?

Depends on where it happens. If it's like these two, then no because both tracks are blocked.

The yard is supposed to be fully automated, but isn't running as such yet. When the line is brought online, this type of derailment (involving human switching error) should be impossible under the automation.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Depends on where it happens. If it's like these two, then no because both tracks are blocked.

The yard is supposed to be fully automated, but isn't running as such yet. When the line is brought online, this type of derailment (involving human switching error) should be impossible under the automation.

Good Day.

I cannot find the reference offhand, but I recall reading that Belfast yard switches from Phase 1 are currently automated, but that the newer switches installed with the advanced Phase 2 trackwork are not yet incorporated and are currently operated manually. They are due to be incorporated into the automation by November.
It was at the crossover switching between the original Phase 1 launch track and the new Phase 2 launch track that had the first derail. I have seen no announcement as to the cause of the latest derail, nor where in the yard it happened. Anybody have a link ?

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

I cannot find the reference offhand, but I recall reading that Belfast yard switches from Phase 1 are currently automated, but that the newer switches installed with the advanced Phase 2 trackwork are not yet incorporated and are currently operated manually. They are due to be incorporated into the automation by November.
It was at the crossover switching between the original Phase 1 launch track and the new Phase 2 launch track that had the first derail. I have seen no announcement as to the cause of the latest derail, nor where in the yard it happened. Anybody have a link ?

That would make sense for why they aren't running it automatically.
In the times I've been past Belfast recently, they have bags covering the signals by the switches so that makes me wonder if they've just outright disabled the automation there for the time being.

On another note, I saw 3 doubles run through Hurdman within the span of about 20 minutes. Still a few singles as well. Running at around 3-4 minutes apart. I wonder if they're getting anymore reliable?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

That would make sense for why they aren't running it automatically.
In the times I've been past Belfast recently, they have bags covering the signals by the switches so that makes me wonder if they've just outright disabled the automation there for the time being.

On another note, I saw 3 doubles run through Hurdman within the span of about 20 minutes. Still a few singles as well. Running at around 3-4 minutes apart. I wonder if they're getting anymore reliable?

They were doing the brake work on the trains, which is supposed to be complete by the 7th according to the last update. I imagine why we hadn't been seeing doubles recently is they didn't have enough trains to run pairs. As we get closer and closer to that date, I think we'll get more and more doubles again.

Another tidbit was that we might not see trains at all at some points during the 12 day test. Apparently that's normal

[sseguin]

Since the fences have finally come down, I went out today to do a Snapshot update on Rideau Station.

https://www.otrainfans.ca/snapshot-updates/snapshot-for-rideau-station-june-28-2019

[gatt]

Originally Posted by sseguin

Since the fences have finally come down, I went out today to do a Snapshot update on Rideau Station.

https://www.otrainfans.ca/snapshot-updates/snapshot-for-rideau-station-june-28-2019

thanks for sharing.

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by John Manconi

“Please note we have become aware that a media outlet is planning to publish a story claiming that Alstom is leaving Ottawa.
I want to provide Council with the facts and confirm that RTG is providing details to any media outlet should they ask. Here are the key points.
Stage1 LRT vehicles were built here in Ottawa and will continue to be finalized, commissioned, deployed and maintained for the next 30 years as per the P3 Maintenance Concession contract
Stage 2 LRT vehicles have commenced to be built here in Ottawa
Alstom is moving production of the stage 2 vehicles to their facility in the GTA area and are working all associated logistics with RTG
Alstom is fully within their rights to move production of stage 2 vehicles wherever they like and they do not need city consent nor is their any restrictions or reasons that we would be opposed to what is being proposed
Building vehicles outside of the city where they will be operating is very common and we have done this in the past such us our Alstom Lint vehicles used on our Trillium line. Those vehicles where built overseas and shipped to Ottawa.
The city is not a party to the this decision nor do we want to be as this is a contract between RTG and Alstom
Peter Lauch the CEO of RTG and I have spoken and he and his team are available to speak to the media and provide details
I am not aware what the media report will say but I can assure Council that Alstom is committed to Ottawa and is continuing in full force with both Stage 1 and Stage 2 vehicles and maintenance
John Manconi
General Manager, Transportation Services Department
Directeur général, Direction générale des transports
City of Ottawa | Ville d’Ottawa”

Via Reddit via the Bulldog

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

Via Reddit via the Bulldog

Sounds like a move to consolidate assembly of the trains for both Metrolinx and Ottawa. The parts are made in Hornell, and Toronto is on the way to Ottawa so assembling them all there makes perfect sense.

Sooo, it's nice to know, but it's no big deal. Wonder what the article will sound like.

[pattherat]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

Via Reddit via the Bulldog

I’ll lay down a $50,000 bet that the ‘media outlet’ will be Joanne Chianello. Any takers?

[OCCheetos]

Does any one know if the first already-assembled train that was shipped to Ottawa was shipped entirely by truck from Hornell?

Does anyone thing it's possible they might opt to ship them by freight train this time around and deliver them by truck from Walkley instead? Or heck, build a connection to Belfast Yard itself? (That'd be cool I guess, though unlikely as was been discussed a long time ago)

[J.OT13]

Ok, so a media outlet stumbled on this story and was about to report it. What's the big deal? It is a news story.

The Ottawa assembly was touted as one of the big victories of Stage 1. We were under the impression that Stage 2 trains would also be assembled here as well, but now it's going to Toronto which is probably a good move for Alstom logistically. Good move for us as well possibly; I'm not sure how an active Belfast Yard could support an assembly line once we're up to 60+ units. All trains should be ready before Moodie Yards.

To boot, this media outlet seemingly gave OC Transpo a heads-up so that they could inform the public before it came out.

Over the last 2 years, CBC has been very proactive in keeping the public informed. Manconi then has to step up and explain the facts. If it wasn't for CBC we wouldn't know anything. If OC and RTG was more forthcoming, we wouldn't need the CBC to continue with its intensive investigative reporting. Even now, with all of this information out, OC and RTG have not done such a great job calming the population. They could state examples of other rail transit projects that have had similar issues to show this is normal. Instead of just saying "trains derail in yards all the time, it's normal". How about giving us stats from other cities? Instead of confirming "doors gets stuck, it's normal, get over it", how about going into detail regarding similar issues in Montreal, Toronto and Sydney?

This is on OC and RTG, not CBC.

*I agree CBC blows things out of proportion at times and has been know to a little "off the rails" with some of their "facts", as with many other media companies. I don't think it's in bad faith; they always warn OC Transpo so they can present a rebuttal. I think it's just a lack of knowledge.

[pattherat]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ok, so a media outlet stumbled on this story and was about to report it. What's the big deal? It is a news story.

The Ottawa assembly was touted as one of the big victories of Stage 1. We were under the impression that Stage 2 trains would also be assembled here as well, but now it's going to Toronto which is probably a good move for Alstom logistically. Good move for us as well possibly; I'm not sure how an active Belfast Yard could support an assembly line once we're up to 60+ units. All trains should be ready before Moodie Yards.

To boot, this media outlet seemingly gave OC Transpo a heads-up so that they could inform the public before it came out.

Over the last 2 years, CBC has been very proactive in keeping the public informed. Manconi then has to step up and explain the facts. If it wasn't for CBC we wouldn't know anything. If OC and RTG was more forthcoming, we wouldn't need the CBC to continue with its intensive investigative reporting. Even now, with all of this information out, OC and RTG have not done such a great job calming the population. They could state examples of other rail transit projects that have had similar issues to show this is normal. Instead of just saying "trains derail in yards all the time, it's normal". How about giving us stats from other cities? Instead of confirming "doors gets stuck, it's normal, get over it", how about going into detail regarding similar issues in Montreal, Toronto and Sydney?

This is on OC and RTG, not CBC.

*I agree CBC blows things out of proportion at times and has been know to a little "off the rails" with some of their "facts", as with many other media companies. I don't think it's in bad faith; they always warn OC Transpo so they can present a rebuttal. I think it's just a lack of knowledge.

I agree for the most part with the CBC portion of your comments, but Joanne Chianello is the consistent voice of hyperbole and actively leaving out facts or choosing not chase additional facts. She ends up with dramatic titles and reporting that are seemingly there to stir up false panic.

In order to illustrate this, compare her articles to Kate Porter’s. Kate is a journalist, or at least appears to be writing factual articles as much as she can. Joanne appears to have an agenda.

[Badyouken]

Lots of doubles going through Bayview today.

[J.OT13]

Looking forward to FEDCO next week. I hope Alstom will be able to reach its July 7th target.

[J.OT13]

I went though these pictures multiple times since they were posted and just now noticed one of the so-called "art" installations of Rideau.


https://www.otrainfans.ca/snapshot-updates/snapshot-for-rideau-station-june-28-2019

One thing I noticed right away was the "Places of Interest" map's orientation which could prove to be, well, very DIS-orienting for many, especially tourists.


https://www.otrainfans.ca/snapshot-updates/snapshot-for-rideau-station-june-28-2019

Otherwise, Rideau looks pretty good. It seems spacious and provides plenty of vertical circulation options. Looking forward to its opening.

Thanks to Shane/O-Train Fans for posting.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I went though these pictures multiple times since they were posted and just now noticed one of the so-called "art" installations of Rideau.


https://www.otrainfans.ca/snapshot-updates/snapshot-for-rideau-station-june-28-2019

One thing I noticed right away was the "Places of Interest" map's orientation which could prove to be, well, very DIS-orienting for many, especially tourists.


https://www.otrainfans.ca/snapshot-updates/snapshot-for-rideau-station-june-28-2019

Otherwise, Rideau looks pretty good. It seems spacious and provides plenty of vertical circulation options. Looking forward to its opening.

Thanks to Shane/O-Train Fans for posting.

You have that right. Why make a map the opposite to normal orientation with south instead of north being up?

[rocketphish]

North at the bottom maps... Just say no!

[OCCheetos]

With the location of that map, (I believe?) the viewer is facing South. It's arguably more intuitive at that location because most people orient a map with "forwards" at the top. It is unusual though.

The map on the ready4rail site, and hopefully all the other maps, are oriented correctly.

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

One thing I noticed right away was the "Places of Interest" map's orientation which could prove to be, well, very DIS-orienting for many, especially tourists.


https://www.otrainfans.ca/snapshot-updates/snapshot-for-rideau-station-june-28-2019

As a best principle of design, wayfinding maps should be oriented according to how the viewer would be facing. They seem to have done it right here.

North up might be be right in a given situation, but so might east up or southwest up, depending on the context. Maps should always be shown in the same orientation as the space — if the map is presented vertically, users expect that what is at the top of the map is what is in front of them, left is left and right is right. There are few things in life more confusing than a north up map when you’re facing south. http://www.intublog.com/better-maps-for-wayfinding/

Some basic and easy improvements would be:

- remove the unnamed building outlines: if it's not actually a destination, a landmark or other useful piece of information, it should be omitted

- use the usual map colour coding: green for parks, etc

- include bike trails, as many users are expected to be arriving with their bikes

- eliminate redundant labels, e.g. St Patrick St is unnecessarily marked on either side of Dalhousie

- extend the walking distance to 10 minutes: that's closer to the usual range (800 m) people walk from a subway station (http://tram.mcgill.ca/Research/Publications/Transit_service_area.pdf). Mark both 5 and 10 minute ranges

- highlight commercial/main street-type destinations, e.g. Elgin St, etc. This is more of an obvious omission at Tunney's, for example: it doesn't highlight the Wellington St strip.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

With the location of that map, (I believe?) the viewer is facing South. It's arguably more intuitive at that location because most people orient a map with "forwards" at the top. It is unusual though.

The map on the ready4rail site, and hopefully all the other maps, are oriented correctly.

Unless this is at the final exit to the station, this can still be disorienting. Any benefit is lost if you have to make a number of turns before exiting the station.


I am so used to looking at maps with up being north, that the odd time that I see one turned around, just baffles me. I looked at that map and thought. What??? Since when does LRT make that curve to the north and immediately thought this was not even Ottawa. Or was that the Laurier Avenue bridge and City Hall at the bottom?

Maybe it makes more sense given the location that it is posted. Will the station exit to the north have this the other way around?

I hope we have wayfaring signs throughout downtown once the subways open, not just at exits. Pointing arrows to key locations including walking time.