YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That's curiously interesting, given that SZX is such a dynamic and economically performant city. Only Beijing and Shanghai pass it in urban GDP.
I had thought this would good for Seattle, especially for business class pax out of SEA and their IT industry hub and normal business links to China. Puzzling.
Or as you suggest, a problem with the trade war, or a route subsidy change. Still, of all major cities to delete service from, this one seems a biggy.

Losing Xiamen to SZX is not a biggy, especially when it's likely linked to CX launching SEA-HKG.

SZX will always be oushined by HKG and CAN, which are nearby. Shenzhen has limited service to Europe or North America compared to those 2 hubs.

Between CX to HKG or MF to SZX, I'm pretty sure SEA is happier to keep CX.

In the global picture, SZX is irrelevant.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

TK should just fly to YVR. They shouldn’t wait to analyse the economics of 2 or 3 weekly.

From the same guy on airliners.net, Canada now offers TK 3x weekly to launch YVR...

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Speaking of SEA, it seems Xiamen is canceling their flights to SZX come November (as per OAG). Likely a casualty of the trade war or maybe route subsidies coming to an end...

The main reason is the end of subsidy. SZX only subsidize a route up to 3 years, and SZX-SEA lasted exactly 3 years. Coincidence? I think not...

Sept 26, 2016 - Sept 25, 2019

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

From the same guy on airliners.net, Canada now offers TK 3x weekly to launch YVR...

The main reason is the end of subsidy. SZX only subsidize a route up to 3 years, and SZX-SEA lasted exactly 3 years. Coincidence? I think not...

Sept 26, 2016 - Sept 25, 2019

You’re talking about this guy “ankaraflyjet”

Not sure exactly how or why but he seems privy to negotiations.

Interesting how the offer went from 2 to 3 flights since last week. But yeah, no sense in TK analysing the viability of the offer they should just launch the route regardless. I suppose Canada and Turkey can stipulate whatever they want as long as both parties agree to it. Possibly set a precedent for future negotiations / restrictions. Who knows.

Wasn’t TK supposed to have started SEA by now?

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1423701&p=21446607#p21446607

And yeah, oh well just when SEA was on a massive roll they lose an international carrier. What a coincidence huh. Most YVR - China flights must be over the subsidy period by now.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Something doesn't add up.

It doesn't sound like Canada to enforce a location (YVR) where TK can use these supposed extra 2x weekly frequencies.

Canada's latest increases with countries like the U.A.E, Qatar, Jordan, Algeria or Egypt have included frequency increases to any points in Canada.

Now I thought about this... it seems like Canada did impose route restrictions in some of the bilateral.

I remember an old version of bilateral for India have restriction like:
- Up to two routes
- First route is up to daily and up to 1 intermediate point
- Second route is up to 2x weekly, up to 1 intermediate point in the different side of the globe.
(I can't remember the exact condition, but it was as specific as that)

Maybe the current Canada - Turkey bilateral states that each side can have maximum of 2 routes, one is 6x weekly max and the other is 3x weekly max?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

Now I thought about this... it seems like Canada did impose route restrictions in some of the bilateral.

I remember an old version of bilateral for India have restriction like:
- Up to two routes
- First route is up to daily and up to 1 intermediate point
- Second route is up to 2x weekly, up to 1 intermediate point in the different side of the globe.
(I can't remember the exact condition, but it was as specific as that)

Maybe the current Canada - Turkey bilateral states that each side can have maximum of 2 routes, one is 6x weekly max and the other is 3x weekly max?

Yes, current bilateral is restricted to 2 routes. TK chose YYZ ans YUL. As this will be an expansion on the bilateral, it is weird that Canada is imposing YVR, as my previous examples have shown that with other countries it wasn't done this way.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by nname

From the same guy on airliners.net, Canada now offers TK 3x weekly to launch YVR...

Hey if that's really true, then just maybe, after having been humbled with an offer of only 2x/week, now back to 3, now TK will take it. It's a foothold, if they turn it down they're nuts.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Now I thought about this... it seems like Canada did impose route restrictions in some of the bilateral.

I remember an old version of bilateral for India have restriction like:
- Up to two routes
- First route is up to daily and up to 1 intermediate point
- Second route is up to 2x weekly, up to 1 intermediate point in the different side of the globe.
(I can't remember the exact condition, but it was as specific as that)

Maybe the current Canada - Turkey bilateral states that each side can have maximum of 2 routes, one is 6x weekly max and the other is 3x weekly max?

Like I said earlier this is perhaps new where the two parties can actually stipulate actual frequencies assigned to a particular route.

Perhaps Canada doesn’t want to give TK any more flights out of YYZ. So if the bilateral was increased without a proviso perhaps they would just use the additional flights elsewhere. However if the bilateral is amended to actually state YVR then this could be possible. It may not be the norm or the way things have been done in the past but really two countries can agree on whatever they want if they sign off on it.

[Denscity]

Air Canada wins best airline in North America again
And best business class dining in the world interesting enough.
Skytrax

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Air Canada wins best airline in North America again
And best business class dining in the world interesting enough.
Skytrax

Not much competition in North America with the exception of Delta, AC, however offers a more consistent product, especially in business class and their recent re-brand to Signature Service had upped their game significantly.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Not much competition in North America with the exception of Delta, AC, however offers a more consistent product, especially in business class and their recent re-brand to Signature Service had upped their game significantly.

I should clarify It was worlds best business class Lounge dining not inflight.

[nname]

I guess this is somewhat related.. Strike at BR started today from approx 1am PDT. BR10 tonight left YVR just before the strike began, but tomorrow's flight to TPE are cancelled. Reservation closed until June 27th.

They really want to peak the period where demand are really really high, right? Checking for a family friend whose flight had not been officially cancelled (yet). But if they do, there's probably no more seats left on both CI and AC...

[nname]

CAAC is planning to revoke 1 of the 2 weekly frequency for SZX-YVR-SZX from HU due to low usage (S18 usage 0%, W18 usage 47%).

I think there's a bug in their formula since the route was just started... but if it does, it would certainly mean the death of the route since SZX do not subsidize 1x weekly route.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

CAAC is planning to revoke 1 of the 2 weekly frequency for SZX-YVR-SZX from HU due to low usage (S18 usage 0%, W18 usage 47%).

I think there's a bug in their formula since the route was just started... but if it does, it would certainly mean the death of the route since SZX do not subsidize 1x weekly route.

And if the rumoured Hainan exit from YYC is true perhaps they can put the frequencies on a higher volume route

[Johnny Aussie]

AC putting a 788 on one of the 5 daily YVR-SFO flights from 1 July - 1 Sept

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...vancouver-san-francisco-service-in-3q19/

AC566 YVR1330 – 1604SFO 788 D
AC571 SFO1730 – 1946YVR 788 D

[s211]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

AC putting a 788 on one of the 5 daily YVR-SFO flights from 1 July - 1 Sept

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...vancouver-san-francisco-service-in-3q19/

AC566 YVR1330 – 1604SFO 788 D
AC571 SFO1730 – 1946YVR 788 D

That's interesting. It felt like that AC route had some of the cheapest business class prices just a short while ago versus their competition.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

AC putting a 788 on one of the 5 daily YVR-SFO flights from 1 July - 1 Sept

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...vancouver-san-francisco-service-in-3q19/

AC566 YVR1330 – 1604SFO 788 D
AC571 SFO1730 – 1946YVR 788 D

So the 788 will rotate like:

YVR - KIX/CDG/ZRH - YVR - SFO - YVR - BNE - YVR - KIX/CDG/ZRH - YVR

If AC have a spare plane, I really hope they'd throw it to TPE right now... Trying to reschedule a flight for family friend after their flight got cancelled by BR strike, but the next availability for AC and CI in Y sometimes in July...

[Johnny Aussie]

With AC increasing KOA to 5 weekly next winter this means AC will have 6 flights to Hawaii on Saturdays. Combined with Westjet that will be 12 flights to Hawaii on Saturdays. 8 of those will depart with 30 mins of each other between 1750 and 1820. Aloha!

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

With AC increasing KOA to 5 weekly next winter this means AC will have 6 flights to Hawaii on Saturdays. Combined with Westjet that will be 12 flights to Hawaii on Saturdays. 8 of those will depart with 30 mins of each other between 1750 and 1820. Aloha!

I love that image of jets all lining up to take off. Gives YVR a bit of that "big airport" feeling. Are there any other take-off banks like that at other parts of the day?

[nname]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I love that image of jets all lining up to take off. Gives YVR a bit of that "big airport" feeling. Are there any other take-off banks like that at other parts of the day?

Probably early morning departure for domestic and trans-border flights.

And one time I was sitting at the observation area for lunch at noon, there was almost always a line up for planes, and for the hour I've been there, there's probably only a gap of 2 minutes for departures...

[Johnny Aussie]

As it stands now, and with Air Canada's increase to Mexico, YVR-Mexico/Central America/Caribbean flights will increase to 101 weekly flights this winter.

So far it's

AC 30
WS 22
WG 16
AM 15
TS 10
4O 8