YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Interesting post from airliners.net.

Someone is claiming Canada has offered Turkish Airlines 2 slots per week for YVR-IST. Don't know if TK will accept it.

TK’s request for additional slots at Toronto and Montreal were apparently declined.

Something doesn't add up.

It doesn't sound like Canada to enforce a location (YVR) where TK can use these supposed extra 2x weekly frequencies.

Canada's latest increases with countries like the U.A.E, Qatar, Jordan, Algeria or Egypt have included frequency increases to any points in Canada.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ca...-the-united-arab-emirates-689357261.html

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ca...-air-transport-agreements-805665859.html

Why would it be different with Turkey all of a sudden?

Going by the assumption that the Canadian government gave them 2 weekly frequencies, and by the fact that he's saying TK's slot requests at YYZ and YUL were denied, this leads me to believe that TK wanted to use those frequencies at YYZ and YUL, and it has more to do with the GTAA or ADM denying the slots TK requested, as both airports are congested at peak times.

It is unlikely the Canadian government told TK that they have to use those 2 frequencies at YVR and not YYZ/YUL.

I asked the guy on airliners to elaborate. He hasn't done so yet.

[Hourglass]

Yep, hence my use of the word “claim.”

@leftcoaster - love the updated chart. Who is doing the MEA flights? Didn’t see an airline or destination.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

YYZ is 6x weekly. YUL is 3x weekly at the moment.

Please excuse my error.
6 for YYZ, 3 for YUL, and 2 offered for YVR seems coherent with city size / market size. At one time I believe YUL only had 2 week. Maybe, as YVR market grows, Vancouver grows, there'll be a bump in frequency. Anyway, IMHO it's still a foot in the door for TK, and they're too proud or too dumb if they don't run with it, however modest the offering.

[nname]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

This is my chart with red showing routes with capacity cuts and green showing capacity gains from summer 2018:

Driving the losses are Beijing, Shanghai and Nagoya on Air Canada, Sydney on Qantas and Manila on Philippines.

The larger gains are Delhi on AC, Taipei on China Airlines and Hong Kong on Hong Kong Airlines.

CI had been flying only 7x weekly for years now. They used to fly 11x weekly for 2 months every year solely to prevent BR from taking them to add service to YVR and YYZ.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Please excuse my error.
6 for YYZ, 3 for YUL, and 2 offered for YVR seems coherent with city size / market size. At one time I believe YUL only had 2 week. Maybe, as YVR market grows, Vancouver grows, there'll be a bump in frequency. Anyway, IMHO it's still a foot in the door for TK, and they're too proud or too dumb if they don't run with it, however modest the offering.

Canada had offer then 3x weekly before, but they wanted daily to YVR (even though non of YYZ and YUL was daily) so the talk broke down.

This time around, Canada only offer 2x weekly... would they take it this time, or keep insisting on daily..?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

At one time I believe YUL only had 2 week.

No. YUL was started at 3x weekly in 2014. YYZ was started at 3x weekly in 2009 and expanded to 6x weekly in 2014, the same year they launched IST-YUL.

If the Canadian govt is giving TK only 2x weekly frequencies, it would make sense for TK to expand YYZ to daily and increase YUL to 4x weekly before launching YVR.

Hence the request for slots at YYZ and YUL, which was supposedly denied. None of this is verifiable mind you, but it would make sense.

The fact TK started YUL at 3x weekly leads me to believe they want a minimum of 3x weekly frequencies to launch YVR as well.

Originally Posted by nname

Canada had offer then 3x weekly before

Supposedly. We don't know for sure, as it was the same guy on airliners saying it, with no verifiable source.

[Denscity]

Just read tourists from South America to YVR was up over 50%! And that's without a direct connection. Mainly through MEX I'm guessing?

[nname]

Originally Posted by denscity

just read tourists from south america to yvr was up over 50%! And that's without a direct connection. Mainly through mex i'm guessing?

MEX, YYZ, YUL, LAX, DFW, IAH, EWR, or ATL

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by nname

Canada had offer then 3x weekly before, but they wanted daily to YVR (even though non of YYZ and YUL was daily) so the talk broke down.
This time around, Canada only offer 2x weekly... would they take it this time, or keep insisting on daily..?

TK was, IMHO, rather overconfident and a bit dumb when they originally demanded 5/wk to YVR and turned down 3. Pride got in the way. Now, it'll be years before they fly here, I'll bet.

[twoNeurons]

I’d love it if TK came to YVR. More Star Alliance carriers that don’t charge carrier surcharges on point redemptions. Also their food and service is well known to be amazing and they have fantastic connections pretty much everywhere.

I’ll be flying them BUD-IST-BKK this summer and I can’t wait!

[twoNeurons]

2x weekly is kind of lame tbh. That’s charter level. You can’t really depend on a fight to meet your needs. Every other day is manageable but connections would be annoying. Turkish functions as a hub. Istanbul wants to be the world hub connecting all over the world to all over the world. They have a massive network. The entire Indian subcontinent and Africa.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

2x weekly is kind of lame tbh. That’s charter level. You can’t really depend on a fight to meet your needs. Every other day is manageable but connections would be annoying. Turkish functions as a hub. Istanbul wants to be the world hub connecting all over the world to all over the world. They have a massive network. The entire Indian subcontinent and Africa.

Exactly. TK is going big time. All the more reason they should have taken the 3x a week when offered . They looked the gift horse in the mouth, wanted more, and got less. Dumb

[Hourglass]

Speaking of SEA, it seems Xiamen is canceling their flights to SZX come November (as per OAG). Likely a casualty of the trade war or maybe route subsidies coming to an end...

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Speaking of SEA, it seems Xiamen is canceling their flights to SZX come November (as per OAG). Likely a casualty of the trade war or maybe route subsidies coming to an end...

That's curiously interesting, given that SZX is such a dynamic and economically performant city. Only Beijing and Shanghai pass it in urban GDP.
I had thought this would good for Seattle, especially for business class pax out of SEA and their IT industry hub and normal business links to China. Puzzling.
Or as you suggest, a problem with the trade war, or a route subsidy change. Still, of all major cities to delete service from, this one seems a biggy.

[stiffdeadman]

So Delta started using the A220-100 (CSeries) this week on their Seattle-San Jose route . Decided to go down yesterday (Saturday) and take the flight to see how good this aircraft is. Expectations were pretty high based on what I have read about performance so far. The plane did not disappoint. Delta has a winner with this aircraft and the configuration. Seats are 18.6 inches wide in economy and it's noticeable. Tonnes of legroom. Brand new larger inflight entertainment screens with a new flight monitoring program from rockwell that lets you have the cockpit instrument display on your IFE screen.

The plane itself is very quiet. I was in 20A just behind the engines. Takeoff performance was amazing. The thing shot off the ground in a hurry with a full load of a 109 passengers. Easy to see how it was certified for London City operations as we were in the air in less then 5000 feet of runway. Cruise was very smooth. All in all a great airplane. Amplified by the fact that I flew back on Alaska and was squished into their 737-900 with a 300 pound fatty overflowing in the middle seat next to me. Sorry Alaska, I'm all Delta now.

Glad to see Air Canada has a bunch of these coming starting at the end of the year. Hopefully a fair amount will be based here, but somehow I doubt it. As for Westjet, well they're just plain stupid for not ordering these when they had the opportunity too. Now they're stuck with the PR nightmare 737MAX's.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by stiffdeadman

Glad to see Air Canada has a bunch of these coming starting at the end of the year. Hopefully a fair amount will be based here, but somehow I doubt it. As for Westjet, well they're just plain stupid for not ordering these when they had the opportunity too. Now they're stuck with the PR nightmare 737MAX's.

The issue is that Westjet needs a bigger jet with longer range than the A220 series. That means it's either the 737MAX or the Airbus A320Neo. The Airbus needs a totally different supply chain, training procedures and equipment to support it.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

The issue is that Westjet needs a bigger jet with longer range than the A220 series. That means it's either the 737MAX or the Airbus A320Neo. The Airbus needs a totally different supply chain, training procedures and equipment to support it.

While a 737Max has more seating capacity, the A220 still has some serious range and I'm not convinced that it wouldn't be a great fit for WestJet, particularly for the bottom half of its mainline fleet.

Per Airbus, the A220-100 has 6,297km range at MTOW, while the A220-300, including its recently announced MTOW increase, has 6,204km range.

A221 Range

Source

A223 Range

Source

[nname]

There seems to be a massive increase of AC flight to Mexico this winter...

YVR-CUN increase from 4x weekly to daily
YVR-ZIH increase from 3x weekly to 4x weekly
YVR-PVR increase from 4x weekly to 6x weekly
YVR-SJD increase from 3x weekly to 6x weekly

YYC-CUN also increase from 3x weekly to daily
.. and there are also many increases from both YYZ and YUL, which I posted in the Canada thread before.

Hawaii, on the other hand, doesn't see much increase
YVR-KOA increase from 4x weekly to 5x weekly

No change for HNL, OGG, and LIH

Everything I mentioned above is scheduled to be operated by 7M8.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

There seems to be a massive increase of AC flight to Mexico this winter...

YVR-CUN increase from 4x weekly to daily
YVR-ZIH increase from 3x weekly to 4x weekly
YVR-PVR increase from 4x weekly to 6x weekly
YVR-SJD increase from 3x weekly to 6x weekly

YYC-CUN also increase from 3x weekly to daily
.. and there are also many increases from both YYZ and YUL, which I posted in the Canada thread before.

Hawaii, on the other hand, doesn't see much increase
YVR-KOA increase from 4x weekly to 5x weekly

No change for HNL, OGG, and LIH

Everything I mentioned above is scheduled to be operated by 7M8.

Wow that’s huge. If the Max issues are sorted.

Getting close to 5 daily to Mexico (incl MEX)

I think Hawaii’s increases were huge last year going to 5 daily so that is a market that still needs time to absorb that.

[nname]

Other observations:

The 4x weekly 788 to AKL will come from YYZ... a 4x weekly YYZ-YVR had been added.

YVR-YXY will becomes mainline, daily 319+320 (instead of 3x daily CR9), flight number 276/278 [EDIT: 1x weeky CRJ still remain in schedule]

YVR-EWR will be downgauged to 788

Both YVR-PEK and PVG will be 789 in the winter.

For express, currently have 1x daily increase for SEA, SFO, YXT, YYD, YQR, YXE (some increase was carried over from summer)

The vast majority of Express route out of YVR will now be operated by DH4 over the winter too, with the exception of YCD (reduce by 2x daily), all other route sees increase or same frequency.


So far, comparing the weekly frequency from March 2019 and 2020... all the routes that changed:

Route		W18	W19	Change
AKL - YVR	0	4	4
KOA - YVR	4	5	1
SEA - YVR	35	42	7
YCD - YVR	53	41	-12
YVR - CUN	4	7	3
YVR - DEL	6	7	1
YVR - PVR	4	6	2
YVR - SFO	28	35	7
YVR - SJC	20	21	1
YVR - SJD	3	6	3
YVR - YLW	63	62	-1
YVR - YQR	14	20	6
YVR - YXE	14	20	6
YVR - YXT	26	33	7
YVR - YYD	14	21	7
YVR - YYF	20	25	5
YVR - YYZ	81	74	-7
YVR - ZIH	3	4	1
YXJ - YVR	25	28	3
YXS - YVR	34	32	-2
YYJ - YVR	90	87	-3

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Other observations:

The 4x weekly 788 to AKL will come from YYZ... a 4x weekly YYZ-YVR had been added.

Late night AC ops will be pretty amazing this winter. 3 days a week this winter there will be 5 flights to AKL, MEL, BNE, SYD and DEL. Maple Leaf Lounge just going to be that much busier. Wasn’t so long ago SYD was the only AC intl late night flight.

Looks like in AC’s latest schedule update mainline 763s are removed from transcon flying as well. Slowly phasing out as they exit the fleet.

Just booked XMAS flights again today. SIN-TPE-YVR on BR. Last crack at the prem econ before it flips to a Dreamliner. Such a great service.

TK should just fly to YVR. They shouldn’t wait to analyse the economics of 2 or 3 weekly. Just do it. And so should EK. And direct flights to South America. I’d expect announcements soon.

Oh Lefty, looked at your updated chart. Good job. Weird but JAL is actually a capacity increase with their 763s.