Winnipeg | Downtown | True North Square | U/C

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Biff

When you are coming south down Princess towards Portage, you really get a downtown feel. There is depth in the towers that you really haven't felt before here in Winnipeg.

I think the best canyon effect is on Hargrave. Come up from Broadway, it’s creamy, especially since the street is so narrow.

[Wpg_Guy]

To recap the day, 5th tower announced for TNS.

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

Address: 236 Carlton St Winnipeg, MB
Location: https://www.google.com/maps/place/236+Ca...13c274b619c!8m2!3d49.89115!4d-97.1452369
Developer: True North Real Estate Development (TNRED) & The Wawanesa Mutual Insurance Company
Architect: Architecture49
Budget: $130-$150 million
Completion: targeted 2023
Media source: https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/busine...ower-at-true-north-square-511246162.html



• Video Link

[Spocket]

What a great addition! I'm really surprised at how good that that looks. I knew it wouldn't be trash or anything but I'm really digging that building.

[optimusREIM]

Hah maybe nothing but in the rendering looking south along carlton theres a building appearing to be on the cathedral lot. And its not the delta, which you can clearly see poking up just above the big screen in the background. I wonder if TN has some convoluted deal with the archdiocese and RWB to put the residence there and also develop the lot?

[Biff]

I think it is probably the shorter Lakeview building (with Toad etc) but I don't doubt that something may be cooking between TNS and St Mary's Church.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

I think it is probably the shorter Lakeview building (with Toad etc) but I don't doubt that something may be cooking between TNS and St Mary's Church.

Totally plausible given the convergence of interests and the close connections between TN's principals and the Catholic Archdiocese of Winnipeg. If there is ever going to be a sixth TNS tower, it would be likeliest to happen on the Cathedral's churchyard.

On another note, here's something I was pondering this morning. TNS will have five towers (for now). Two sets of twins (TNS1/2, Sutton Place/Residence) and now Wawanesa. Is it better this way with three distinctive designs, or should it have been a coordinated set of five instead? Looking at the renderings, the Wawanesa tower will for all intents and purposes appear totally separate from its neighbour.... no podium integration at all. I think I like this approach better than the uniform design, but I'm not 100% sure.

[Wpg_Guy]

I like the diversity in design, something I don’t like about Calgary is all the twins.

Jim Ludlow made it pretty clear during the press conference that the Wawanesa building will be the last with a True North Square address.

A low to mid rise on the church site would be nice, Hugh used there at this point would box in the development too much IMO.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

Jim Ludlow made it pretty clear during the press conference that the Wawanesa building will be the last with a True North Square address.

A low to mid rise on the church site would be nice, Hugh used there at this point would box in the development too much IMO.

Ludlow's comment is interesting, because the site next to the Cathedral is pretty much the only spot left that can be easily integrated into the rest of the complex.

I guess if it's going to be developed, it will be the Archdiocese's first and foremost, with their identity instead of TN's corporate branding.

I'm sure the RWB question has been fully thought out and the drawings are sitting on someone's desk, but it's hard not to daydream about a midrise 10-15 storey building on that churchyard site that includes a RWB residence plus all the other functions that St. Mary's was talking about building for previously.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by esquire

Ludlow's comment is interesting, because the site next to the Cathedral is pretty much the only spot left that can be easily integrated into the rest of the complex.

I guess if it's going to be developed, it will be the Archdiocese's first and foremost, with their identity instead of TN's corporate branding.

I'm sure the RWB question has been fully thought out and the drawings are sitting on someone's desk, but it's hard not to daydream about a midrise 10-15 storey building on that churchyard site that includes a RWB residence plus all the other functions that St. Mary's was talking about building for previously.

Lol you mean something like this?



As many remember this was the pitch from 2017 as per this free press article.

Mind you it was just a placeholder to demonstrate the potential full buildout. Either way, it fits very nicely within the surrounding context in terms of scale. Something like this is not unfathomable to help house the residence. The only real head-scratcher is that this would be waaaaaay too big a project if the goal was to relocate the residence and they would definitely need the Archdiocese contributing on a large scale to make it work financially.

Side note @Biff: I was thinking the same thing but the delta is in front of that even and would totally obscure the view. This one appears almost immediately adjacent TNS

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

I like the diversity in design, something I don’t like about Calgary is all the twins.

Jim Ludlow made it pretty clear during the press conference that the Wawanesa building will be the last with a True North Square address.

A low to mid rise on the church site would be nice, Hugh used there at this point would box in the development too much IMO.

What Jim Ludlow said was this last tower completes TNS. This doesn't mean they are done in development as I mentioned in an earlier post.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Hah maybe nothing but in the rendering looking south along carlton theres a building appearing to be on the cathedral lot. And its not the delta, which you can clearly see poking up just above the big screen in the background. I wonder if TN has some convoluted deal with the archdiocese and RWB to put the residence there and also develop the lot?

You might be onto something here.

If I recall the cathedral site had renderings that were public showing two towers. That is seemingly an excess of space for the archdiocese alone. That said the archdiocese does already have low income housing such as the transitional new immigrant housing development next to the House of the Holy Names and retirement homes elsewhere in the city. Yes, not the most — projects but could explain how they might fill the buildings.

That said what if True North has a deal in principle to move the RWB to the cathedral site in a new development, including the student residency, offices and studio spaces. In return they get the building/land for all the RWB properties downtown. And if there is a similar deal for the House of the Holy Names and the new immigrant housing project True North could be close to assembling another adjoining chunk of space for projects beyond just the cathedral site.

I have been saying for some time that there is surely some sort of deal in principle between True North and the Winnipeg Archdiocese. Someone paid for the work that went into those renderings and the project doesn't seem like something the church would take on independently. The question is how is helping finance that project.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by CoryB

You might be onto something here.

If I recall the cathedral site had renderings that were public showing two towers. That is seemingly an excess of space for the archdiocese alone. That said the archdiocese does already have low income housing such as the transitional new immigrant housing development next to the House of the Holy Names and retirement homes elsewhere in the city. Yes, not the most — projects but could explain how they might fill the buildings.

That said what if True North has a deal in principle to move the RWB to the cathedral site in a new development, including the student residency, offices and studio spaces. In return they get the building/land for all the RWB properties downtown. And if there is a similar deal for the House of the Holy Names and the new immigrant housing project True North could be close to assembling another adjoining chunk of space for projects beyond just the cathedral site.

I have been saying for some time that there is surely some sort of deal in principle between True North and the Winnipeg Archdiocese. Someone paid for the work that went into those renderings and the project doesn't seem like something the church would take on independently. The question is how is helping finance that project.

I posted the renderings a couple posts back. As for financing, the article from 2017 mentioned that the estimated cost was about 105mil which obviously wouldn't be footed by the archdiocese on its own. I'm guessing a variety of partners could be in on the deal, including TN, RWB, the Archdiocese, etc. if enough organisations and programs needed space and had a little bit of rainy day money saved up it could happen. I would assume that TN and the archdiocese would be the number one and two backers of the build in that order.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

Lol you mean something like this?

Not really, as that project was not drawn up to include the RWB residences... at least that was never mentioned at the time.

I would be curious to see how that project evolves, though. The Archdiocese has its own needs, such as housing for retired clergy, education and administration facilities, possibly other types of non-profit housing. So that will be a fair bit of space on its own. Add an RWB element to the mix (residences and/or the school) to that and it starts getting pretty substantial.

One thing I can't imagine happening is the eastern tower being built as shown. Putting up a tower 20 feet from TNS1 would practically be a hostile act, there's just no way a project that in any way involves TNRED would allow that to happen.

So maybe that space gets used for a lowrise building instead, something like... oh, I don't know... a RWB residence?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not really, as that project was not drawn up to include the RWB residences... at least that was never mentioned at the time.

I would be curious to see how that project evolves, though. The Archdiocese has its own needs, such as housing for retired clergy, education and administration facilities, possibly other types of non-profit housing. So that will be a fair bit of space on its own. Add an RWB element to the mix (residences and/or the school) to that and it starts getting pretty substantial.

One thing I can't imagine happening is the eastern tower being built as shown. Putting up a tower 20 feet from TNS1 would practically be a hostile act, there's just no way a project that in any way involves TNRED would allow that to happen.

So maybe that space gets used for a lowrise building instead, something like... oh, I don't know... a RWB residence?

So your plan would see the residence on the east side of the site? that would put it directly behind the cathedral. I would favour it going on the west side, closer to RWB and also not sandwiched too tightly behind an existing building. That tower could easily go 15 or more floors and not really interfere with anything. But I agree, TN would definitely not want another tower that close. I could see them make it shorter to minimize the impact though.

[balletomane]

I hope wherever the new RWB residence is built, it includes plans for a courtyard as they have now.
It's nice for the students to have a protected outdoor area like that and is also a popular place for them to sit outside/play games in warmer months ( especially during their summer school program.)

[esquire]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

So your plan would see the residence on the east side of the site? that would put it directly behind the cathedral. I would favour it going on the west side, closer to RWB and also not sandwiched too tightly behind an existing building. That tower could easily go 15 or more floors and not really interfere with anything. But I agree, TN would definitely not want another tower that close. I could see them make it shorter to minimize the impact though.

I just don't see anything taller than the windowless TNS podium getting built on the site immediately behind the cathedral. Whatever ends up there will be low-rise.

[rrskylar]

https://twitter.com/bellmtsplace/status/1136678665201360896

[dmacc]

The cladding is finally going in on the west side of tower two. Hopefully the camera gets moved soon.

[trueviking]

It’s funny that the Free Press put the Wawanesa announcement on page B6 under the headline ‘fifth tower at Square’. I wonder if it was a tower at Broadway and Main it would have received more love.

[trueviking]

The church project is and always has been pretend.