DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[awholeparade]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

The original Taxi I was completed in 2007. https://zeppelindevelopment.com/taxi-campus

It was actually 2001

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by awholeparade

It was actually 2001

Ahh, I provided the summary page link; you need to scroll down to find Taxi 1; but this link does the scrolling for you.

[awholeparade]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Ahh, I provided the summary page link; you need to scroll down to find Taxi 1; but this link does the scrolling for you.

I work for Zeppelin, so I didn't need to reference the page : )

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by awholeparade

I work for Zeppelin, so I didn't need to reference the page : )

(Sorry, not something my brain would remember) so is the date listed for Taxi I incorrect then?

[Curtis Park]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Sounds good to me.

Coors Field was an early bird catalyst for downtown. Interestingly, in the 2000's many used "Ball Park neighborhood" as a reference to the general area. I always thought of Blake, Larimer streets going northeast as an extension of the Ball Park neighborhood. Legally, I believe everything east of Broadway is in Five Points.

The confusion I see most often is people trying to separate Five Points from all the other neighborhoods. Call it whatever you want, I don't care. But legally, Five Points encompasses all of Curtis Park, Ball Park and a good part of Rino all the way to the river, and Union Station North. But most people seem to think Five Points is just the area around Welton and 26th Ave. The statistical neighborhood of Five Points does not change. Curtis Park has grown over the years, expanding to cover a few blocks on the NE side of Welton. Ballpark was born and may or may not have amended their boundaries, and RiNo of course is also new. All these are names created by the RNO and the RNO can change the boundaries whenever they like. Generally each RNO respects the other's boundaries and tries not to overlap.
Again, I'm not arguing that people need to say the live in Five Points when they live in Union Station North or talk about the great dinner they had in Five Points rather than in RiNo. I'm just clarifying what I think most people on this thread already know.
One other point, since it's one of the largest neighborhoods, it often has the most crime partially due to all the drug related offenses from to the homeless being easy prey and consolidated.

[awholeparade]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

(Sorry, not something my brain would remember) so is the date listed for Taxi I incorrect then?

Now I see what you mean. Yes, that is incorrect and I'm sending an email now

[jhwk]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Brighton Blvd has a way to go before it's aesthetically pleasing. I think Larimer Street between 25th and 35th is awesome though. That's where most of the food, beer, and the best Street murals in the country are at.

I am really disappointed with the urban form of some of the buildings that have been built on Brighton. The City's project to create a walkable street turned out great, but there's really no point if all you have is suburban-style apartments like the Block 32 at RiNo.

I'm hopeful that there's enough old warehouses left to redevelop that the future may look different, but I think that the area is a candidate for design guidelines like Arapahoe Square to better shape development of the outstanding lots.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by Curtis Park

The confusion I see most often is people trying to separate Five Points from all the other neighborhoods. Call it whatever you want, I don't care. But legally, Five Points encompasses all of Curtis Park, Ball Park and a good part of Rino all the way to the river, and Union Station North. But most people seem to think Five Points is just the area around Welton and 26th Ave. The statistical neighborhood of Five Points does not change. Curtis Park has grown over the years, expanding to cover a few blocks on the NE side of Welton. Ballpark was born and may or may not have amended their boundaries, and RiNo of course is also new. All these are names created by the RNO and the RNO can change the boundaries whenever they like. Generally each RNO respects the other's boundaries and tries not to overlap.
Again, I'm not arguing that people need to say the live in Five Points when they live in Union Station North or talk about the great dinner they had in Five Points rather than in RiNo. I'm just clarifying what I think most people on this thread already know.
One other point, since it's one of the largest neighborhoods, it often has the most crime partially due to all the drug related offenses from to the homeless being easy prey and consolidated.

The reason why Five Points is so large geographically is due to the way the city demarcates their statistical neighborhoods, following census tract boundaries. Census tracts were drawn to contain roughly the same number of people, but since every square inch of the US must be located in some census tract, large areas that are undeveloped or contain a lot of railroad or industrial lands are lumped in with nearby residential/populated areas, creating some oddly large tracts. This is what happened with Five Points, where all of the railroad/industrial land between roughly Larimer and the river was tacked on to the residential neighborhoods known as Curtis Park, Five Points (among others) to create one large census tract, which was given the name "Five Points" by the city when they set up their "statistical neighborhoods" scheme as a way of having a standardized way of tracking demographics and other characteristics of areas across the city. They could have just as easily called the statistical neighborhood "Curtis Park" or some other name, but they chose Five Points. The name "Five Points" comes from the intersection of Welton/Washington/26th Av/27th St where there are literally five points, which is quite far away from Brighton Blvd or Blake Street. Breaking down the Five Points statistical neighborhood into smaller neighborhoods was and still is a natural way of recognizing the distinct character and culture within the larger area.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Thanks Ken as always for the thoughtful and helpful information. It doesn't seem that RiNo is very walkable with a cluster of residential development on Brighton Blvd and most of the attractions on the other side of the railroad tracks on Larimer. Are there plans for any more pedestrian bridges?

[Ich]

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2019/05/10/watershed-rino-building.html

Pretty cool office building is coming to Rino. Supposed to be the second phase of Catalyst. Also mentions the WTC and that it’s opening next year. Has it broken ground yet?

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Thanks Ken as always for the thoughtful and helpful information. It doesn't seem that RiNo is very walkable with a cluster of residential development on Brighton Blvd and most of the attractions on the other side of the railroad tracks on Larimer. Are there plans for any more pedestrian bridges?

You're really talking about two separate neighborhoods. RINO starts at the railroad tracks. You do not have to cross the tracks to go to/from any two RINO destinations. RINO does soon the river though, so the pediatrician bridges over the river will be vital to the future walkability of River North.


http://denverinfill.com/neighborhood_pages/ballpark.htm
Here you can see that anything along Blake, Market and Larimer Streets are clearly in the Ball Park neighborhood. I think newer developments in upper Ball Park have been marketing themselves as RINO, because of their proximity to the hip, recognizable name of RINO. But it's just wishful thinking and marketing ploy to enhance value.

http://denverinfill.com/neighborhood_pages/river_north.htm
Here you can see the boundaries for River North. RTD A-line to BNSF rail yard, Park Avenue to 38th Street.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

http://denverinfill.com/neighborhood_pages/ballpark.htm
Here you can see that anything along Blake, Market and Larimer Streets are clearly in the Ball Park neighborhood. I think newer developments in upper Ball Park have been marketing themselves as RINO, because of their proximity to the hip, recognizable name of RINO. But it's just wishful thinking and marketing ploy to enhance value.

http://denverinfill.com/neighborhood_pages/river_north.htm
Here you can see the boundaries for River North. RTD A-line to BNSF rail yard, Park Avenue to 38th Street.

According to this map it’s all RiNo



https://rinoartdistrict.org/about/rino-art-district

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by BG918

According to this map it’s all RiNo



https://rinoartdistrict.org/about/rino-art-district

That red boundary doesn't really leave anything left in the Ball Park neighborhood. The gold boundary more closely follows what is thought of as RINO.

[Interzen]

The key is not to confuse districts with neighborhoods.

If you look at that map you will see that the RINO Art District overlaps 4 different neighborhoods just like the Santa Fe Art district BID is completely within the Lincoln Park/La Alma neighborhood. For practical purposes the Santa Fe district unofficially overlaps a couple blocks of Baker too and is slowly expanding south.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Originally Posted by Interzen

The key is not to confuse districts with neighborhoods.

If you look at that map you will see that the RINO Art District overlaps 4 different neighborhoods just like the Santa Fe Art district BID is completely within the Lincoln Park/La Alma neighborhood. For practical purposes the Santa Fe district unofficially overlaps a couple blocks of Baker too and is slowly expanding south.

I think this is probably the most helpful way of looking at it. There are parts of RiNo that overlap with other neighborhoods. However, I do not think that one can reasonably say that Larimer between 25th and 35th is not RiNo. For one, the establishments on that street, such as Denver Central Market and First Draft literally say they are in RiNo on their websites. In addition, the Crush Walls festival is largely centered on Larimer Street. Moreover, most pictures will be on Larimer Street if you Google image search RiNo Denver.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

I think this is probably the most helpful way of looking at it. There are parts of RiNo that overlap with other neighborhoods. However, I do not think that one can reasonably say that Larimer between 25th and 35th is not RiNo. For one, the establishments on that street, such as Denver Central Market and First Draft literally say they are in RiNo on their websites. In addition, the Crush Walls festival is largely centered on Larimer Street. Moreover, most pictures will be on Larimer Street if you Google image search RiNo Denver.

I don't know. It's starting to sound like this whole thing is completely subjective and there's nothing definitive about any of it. I used to live in City Park West, but if you went off of what the local businesses are claiming on their websites about where they are located, or for that matter even the names of the new developments in that area, you would think I lived in Uptown (which used to be called North Capitol Hill, so there's a whole other debate). Uptown was the hip, nearby neighborhood that everyone wanted to pretend they were in apparently.

All I know is, when I grew up in Denver, and spent most of my twenties here, I had never heard of any such neighborhood as RiNo. When we used to go to raves in that North Larimer area (and there was also a sketchy after-hours club there for the longest time), everyone seemed to think it was Five Points or Curtis Park.

I spent 10 years living in California's three biggest cities, and while I was out there, I was following denverinfill. Only then did I find out there's a neighborhood called River North. The whole time I assumed River North was confined to that hideous industrial pit along Brighton Boulevard, since that was where all the exciting new development being reported on Denver Infill was happening.

It wasn't until I came back to Denver, and was doing some bar-hopping along North Larimer, that I found out that area is also considered RiNo. I said something to a friend I was with (who also moved here from California, about 5 years earlier than me) along the lines of, "I thought you said we were going to RiNo."

He said, "This is RiNo."

I stood there looking around all confused (I can't remember exactly what intersection): "Wait. This is RiNo?"

I was tempted to argue with him about it, but I wasn't feeling very sure of myself at the moment, and he seemed confident he knew what he was talking about.

It bothers me that people are making up new neighborhoods, and changing neighborhood borders willy-nilly. The next time I hear someone refer to Baker as "SoBo," I think I'm going to snap.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

SoBo would be the last straw. That would be intolerable.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Thanks Ken as always for the thoughtful and helpful information. It doesn't seem that RiNo is very walkable with a cluster of residential development on Brighton Blvd and most of the attractions on the other side of the railroad tracks on Larimer. Are there plans for any more pedestrian bridges?

I just wanted to say, I love your forum name.

Carry on....

[Interzen]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

All I know is, when I grew up in Denver, and spent most of my twenties here, I had never heard of any such neighborhood as RiNo. When we used to go to raves in that North Larimer area (and there was also a sketchy after-hours club there for the longest time), everyone seemed to think it was Five Points or Curtis Park.
...........
...........
He said, "This is RiNo."

I stood there looking around all confused (I can't remember exactly what intersection): "Wait. This is RiNo?"

I was tempted to argue with him about it, but I wasn't feeling very sure of myself at the moment, and he seemed confident he knew what he was talking about.

My point is you can be in the "RINO" Art district and at the same time be in five points or Globeville etc. so you were both correct. Curtis park is like a sub-neighborhood of five points in my mind but I don't know whether that overlaps the RINO boundries because it is more informal.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by Interzen

My point is you can be in the "RINO" Art district and at the same time be in five points or Globeville etc. so you were both correct. Curtis park is like a sub-neighborhood of five points in my mind but I don't know weather that overlaps the RINO boundries because it is more informal.

I know; I got that. I wasn't disagreeing with you. I'm just saying, these place names are subjective and fluid. Everyone has a different idea of where the borders are, and what encapsulates what. That Five-Points/Ballpark//RiNo/Curtis Park area is the most confusing part of the city that probably sparks the most debate over what is what. And I don't think most people think of RiNo as an arts district so much as a neighborhood, so that distinction may only cause even more confusion.

When I left Denver, 30th and Larimer was not RiNo. When I came back 10 years later, it was. Something had changed. Why does this bother me? I don't know. I guess I like order and tradition.