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  #141  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2019, 3:26 PM
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The Vancouver style is Patkau, Brian Hemingway, Arthur Erickson, projects like Evelyn Drive, Terrace House, Alberni by Kengo Kuma, and yes all those glass towers in coal harbour and false creek sculpted to take in the view and maximize light in this dark city. Not a pair of stuffy faux-classics 90 years after Art Deco was cool
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  #142  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2019, 4:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dleung View Post
The Vancouver style is Patkau, Brian Hemingway, Arthur Erickson, projects like Evelyn Drive, Terrace House, Alberni by Kengo Kuma, and yes all those glass towers in coal harbour and false creek sculpted to take in the view and maximize light in this dark city. Not a pair of stuffy faux-classics 90 years after Art Deco was cool
Welcome to Passive House design. It'll be the new standard Vancouver design. Max-glass towers days are over.
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  #143  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2019, 4:16 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Welcome to Passive House design. It'll be the new standard Vancouver design. Max-glass towers days are over.
Yaaaaaaay!!! Allons-y!!
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  #144  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2019, 5:01 PM
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Welcome to Passive House design. It'll be the new standard Vancouver design. Max-glass towers days are over.
That is what we call too good to be true.
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  #145  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2019, 5:21 PM
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Passiv Haus and Net Zero are admirable goals and I believe that we can get there. I'm also suspicious about their applicability for all asset classes in the near- to medium-term. Residential is pretty viable because of limited occupancy time and highly predictable diurnal peaks. Offices are more straight forward, but there's a lot of uncertainty about psf energy consumption due to occupant density, increasing number of electronic devices that are simultaneously getting more efficient, and just plain high consumption that makes the balancing the supply side challenging. Institutional buildings, particularly healthcare, are very challenging due to highly variable occupancy patterns, density, and activities, very high-demand equipment like MRIs, CT scans, high-volume air handling with many sub-zones, etc., and in many cases continuous occupancy without downtime "troughs" to balance out peaks.

I recently toured a 100,000 sqft net zero commercial office building in Boulder CO and it's refreshingly normal in many ways, just exceptionally focused on energy performance and financial return. While its rooftop solar array is par for the course, its building-integrated PV (BIPV) array on its SE facade is the eyebrow-raiser. Starting with its SE exposure, this is because of the site's N/S orientation and abutment to a railway on the east side, so there is better direct exposure there and long-term confidence in its availability. Plus, Boulder typically gets more direct sun in the mornings than afternoons, which are often cloudy, so a SE exposure will yield more watts per day than SW.

What's also really interesting is that the BIPV array is actually more cost effective per watt than its rooftop sibling, despite the poorer watt per square foot generating efficiency of vertical PV vs rooftop. This is because the rooftop PV array is built on top of the roof envelope, meaning its owner pays for a normal roof and then pays for the PV installation. The BIPV is an integral part of the wall assembly and takes the place of exterior cladding, so the owner is not paying for a full envelope and then putting an array on top. The bottom line in all of this is that the array is modeled to produce in excess of the typical annualized office tenant energy consumption and the electrically-based HVAC system (air source heat pumps, heat recovery units, and variable refrigerant flow system with an atypically high number of sub-zones).

The owner includes electricity in tenant rent as a lump sum based on the psf consumption of the standard North American office tenant. If the tenant uses more, they pay for the increment at market rates. If they use less, then the flat rate is recalculated down the following year to the new norm, but they don't get a refund or credit. Considering the PV capacity is sized for the North American office tenant psf average, this means that annualized, the building can meet its tenant electricity needs and the tenant lease electricity charge can go straight to repayment of the PV cost and then become profit once it is paid off. The tenants are paying a reasonable rate for electricity and can budget with greater ease since it is a fixed monthly cost, but they're also incentivized to use less year on year. For the owner, encouraging tenant conservation and providing an exceptionally efficient building will ultimately create a cost advantage for tenants to locate in the building vs competitors, all while generating revenue from the sale of surplus power to the grid through CO's feed in tariff system. It also means that if and when the building is not fully leased, sale of the surplus electricity "budgeted" for the unused space can help offset the shortfall in lease revenue and potentially give the owner some additional financial flexibility to wait and find good tenants. Over time, as the average consumption of NA office tenants drops, the array is still sized to meet that original metric, returning an escalating surplus as feed in tariff revenue long-term.

Anyway, it's an interesting net zero project and exciting to see that it came to fruition without being a "capital P" Pilot Project with government support. The mantra of the project was that it had to make financial sense versus conventional development, had to lease at market rates without reliance on a premium of niche tenancy, and had to restrict itself to "state of the shelf" technologies, so no unproven tech or fingers-crossed assumptions of higher future energy costs or new laws.

Fun fact, the PV panels are the same ones used on the new Apple HQ and have about 17.5% efficiency. While not absolutely top of the line, it's still better efficiency than normal, and the specified Apple HQ panels had the highest build quality and reliability in the world at the time of purchase; no cheapo no-name Chinese panels for them. Furthermore, the PV panels for the net-zero office building are the same panels for the the Apple HQ: that project ordered a considerable surplus of panels to account for damage during transportation, installation, etc., and after retaining a modest replacement reserve, they sold off the balance.
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Last edited by SFUVancouver; Apr 5, 2019 at 6:32 PM.
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  #146  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2019, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
But not quite enough to ban the competition?
Complimentary vs Competition is a point of view.
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This was the last item at tonight's stupidly long UDP meeting. It started at 3pm, but was delayed 40 minutes due to lack of quorum. It took them until 9:35 to hear the 5 items.

Did this one pass? Well, one of the comments was that this building just doesn't belong in Vancouver, and another remark was that it has no context with the city at all. There was also extreme criticism of the limestone that similarly was felt to have no place/precedent in Vancouver.

The final vote was 3-2, and I think there were some abstentions. The motion was... stay tuned
So... did it go through?
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  #147  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2019, 9:23 PM
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Complimentary vs Competition is a point of view.
I meant the "competition" between the design of City Hall and the design of these towers (for being most significant or unique in that style).
They wouldn't really be complimentary since they are so far from each other distance-wise.
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  #148  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2019, 10:43 PM
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I swear I was told by MCM the other day that it did pass.
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  #149  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2019, 1:23 AM
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BobLoblawsLawBlog BobLoblawsLawBlog is offline
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Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
Welcome to Passive House design. It'll be the new standard Vancouver design. Max-glass towers days are over.
I would be ecstatic if this happened. The fact is, modern is whatever we make it. If architecture went in the direction of fashioning buildings to look as they did pre-Bauhaus, that would be refreshing, because the idea of covering everything in glass and calling it a day has been done since the 1920s (for example, the Barcelona Pavillion).

To add on to this, I've noticed that nearly all townhouse developments have adopted a sort of neoclassical approach. Usually, they are either Faux-Tudor or Georgian.
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  #150  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2019, 1:41 AM
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I swear I was told by MCM the other day that it did pass.
I can't imagine a better source than them. Now that the cat's out of the bag, I can confirm it did pass. Granted, it only made it by the skin of its teeth as the swing vote felt it didn't deserve to pass, but didn't want to have to spend time on reviewing it again.
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  #151  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2019, 3:03 AM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Originally Posted by Feathered Friend View Post
I can't imagine a better source than them. Now that the cat's out of the bag, I can confirm it did pass. Granted, it only made it by the skin of its teeth as the swing vote felt it didn't deserve to pass, but didn't want to have to spend time on reviewing it again.
It never fails to amaze me how pedantic, picky, and narrow-minded some of these people can be. They allow all sorts of hybrid monsters like some in downtown south,
yet pull all sorts of finnicky reasons out of a hat as to why something classy and elegant like this are "too derivative of NYC" or "too 'faux historique'' or such. Anyway, this one made it through. WHEW!!
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  #152  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2019, 9:57 PM
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Renderings from the April 3rd UDP Meeting















Renderings from the April 3rd UDP Meeting
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  #153  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2019, 10:02 PM
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April 3rd UDP Meeting - Models and Recap























Quote:
Passive House Towers Divide Vancouver’s UDP – Precedent Setting Sustainability or a Foreign Monolith

1444 Alberni Street
When these towers were first revealed to Vancouverites in 2017, they generated a lot of excitement. In a city of seafoam tinted glass, world renowned architect Robert Stern had designed something that was really different, but still of extremely high quality. They may have looked New York in appearance, but, as they would become the tallest passive house towers in the world, their Vancouver connection was clear.

Unfortunately, the Urban Design Panel, aided by two guest members, felt differently, and requested the project be resubmitted after satisfying their recommendations. At the time, city staff believed these issues were actually quite minor, and could easily be remedied at the development application stage. Armed with public support, they allowed the rezoning application to proceed to a public hearing where it was approved.

However, at the development permit stage, large projects require an additional review by the UDP. The applicant team proudly highlighted the refinements that have been made, like how they’ve stepped the base of the building to add more articulation, and carved away massing at the top levels to create a more slender crown. There were also plenty of subtle movements, such as the provision of extenuated bay windows, stoops for the raised townhomes, and metal detailing paired with limestone to reduce the building’s scale.
https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2019/0...eign-monolith/
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  #154  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2019, 10:19 PM
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Comments seemed quite minor, actually.
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  #155  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2019, 10:25 PM
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It'll take a while for people to understand the onus of Passive House in design of towers.
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  #156  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2019, 10:32 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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I think 1444 Alberni will break through the meniscus of provincial, localised thinking of what is 'Vancouver' and what is not.
For many years, this city rarely went outside a circumscribed limit of what was architecturally acceptable here because it broke with the local, pre-ordained style.
(Bless the Marine Building) This attitude of sticking to green glass and steel is a sign of parochialism. Once these are are up and running, it will knock down self-imposed limitations on what Vancouver should look like, and open the door for some really elegant, classy buildings .... not necessary clones of 1444, but more daring buildings that finally burst the city into architectural cosmopolitanism. (... or should that be cosmopolitan architecturalism)
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  #157  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2019, 12:14 AM
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The opposition is a reverse form of elitism.
Some panel members probably viewed the tower as being elitist in style, so they opposed it.
It's no wonder that you don't see many applicants challenging the "typical" Vancouver archetype - it's too costly from a time and delay perspective.
I'll bet if they had proposed the same towers in glass (and spandrel) they would have passed.
(Just look up the street to the Residences on Georgia for a similar twin tower massing in glass)
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  #158  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2019, 5:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
The opposition is a reverse form of elitism.
Some panel members probably viewed the tower as being elitist in style, so they opposed it.
It's no wonder that you don't see many applicants challenging the "typical" Vancouver archetype - it's too costly from a time and delay perspective.
I'll bet if they had proposed the same towers in glass (and spandrel) they would have passed.
(Just look up the street to the Residences on Georgia for a similar twin tower massing in glass)
It did pass, though.
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Originally Posted by Feathered Friend View Post
My only problem as that the uneven tower heights is getting on my nerves...
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  #159  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2019, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Feathered Friend View Post




Link to Appplication
http://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applica...cola/index.htm

Link to Pre-App Open House info
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=15080

Floor counts remain the same, however heights have been altered from:
West Tower 403 ft to 405 ft
East Tower 453 ft to 442 ft

The unit counts have been reduced from:
495 (362 market - 133 market rental) to
443 (314 market - 129 market rental)

FSR has been increased from:
14.71 to 14.95
Wait, is the city park portion being built into Nicola St. still going ahead?
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  #160  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2019, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
The opposition is a reverse form of elitism.
Some panel members probably viewed the tower as being elitist in style, so they opposed it.
It's no wonder that you don't see many applicants challenging the "typical" Vancouver archetype - it's too costly from a time and delay perspective.
I'll bet if they had proposed the same towers in glass (and spandrel) they would have passed.
(Just look up the street to the Residences on Georgia for a similar twin tower massing in glass)
I guess they should build a humble wooden hick shack tower complete with dilapidated chimneys and broken glass windows to appease those panelists.

Nice things are too much for the eyes of some Vancouver folks to behold. Sad, really.
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