Downtown Vancouver Updates

[jlousa]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Thanks I saw that too. Another detail in that article is the current $1.9B budget for St. Paul's includes $990M from the BC government, which means Providence needs to come up with $910M. I don't know the size of their current fund, Pattison has $75M earmarked for it as well.

Safe to say they need as much as possible from this site. Somewhere in the $800-900M or more. I wonder how much negotiating is going on with the city over both sites, zoning, etc.

With the new St Paul's being bigger then the old one I imagine there must of been at least the consideration at some point of closing mount St Joseph's which is also a Providence site and merging them. It's a huge site just up the road that is likely in need of major seismic upgrades on at least the older portion.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jlousa

With the new St Paul's being bigger then the old one I imagine there must of been at least the consideration at some point of closing mount St Joseph's which is also a Providence site and merging them. It's a huge site just up the road that is likely in need of major seismic upgrades on at least the older portion.

I am surprised that wasn't part of the plan, but who knows what will happen if/when the budget balloons for the new St. Paul's.

Mt. SJ has a long history and is an important part of the community there (not unlike St Pauls in the West End). I would expect some local resistance to any plans.

I would also add that nothing in the new St. Pauls design (or any VGH plans) accommodate the additional capacity that the loss of MSJ would entail. It's a productive hospital for a number of routine procedures.

[Feathered Friend]

International Village mall for sale, could be redeveloped
APRIL 4, 2019 BY PETER MEISZNER

Portfolio also includes location of T&T Supermarket in Chinatown and Henderson Place in Coquitlam
Vancouver’s International Village mall — also known as Tinseltown — is up for sale, along with Paris Square (location of the Chinatown T&T Supermarket), as well as the Henderson Place Mall in Coquitlam.

CBRE’s Urban Properties Group is marketing the three properties as a package: The Henderson Retail Portfolio.

There’s no price listed, but the three properties include over 400,000 square feet of leasable space.

https://urbanyvr.com/international-village-tinseltown-for-sale

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

https://urbanyvr.com/international-village-tinseltown-for-sale

i always thought that place was a dump. been there very few times and never seemed good.

[SpongeG]

When it first opened it was quite nice and fancy. The wood carvings are really quite nice. There were a lot of stores but they shut down and never got replaced. It was the best movie theatre for quite a while in Vancouver city, unfortunately for Cinemark, Cineplex/Famous Players got all the good blockbuster movies and Cinemark got stuck with the leftovers so even the theatre never got a fair start.

.....

Some pics from the 5th floor of the bay today.

2019-04-04_07-51-13 by snub_you, on Flickr

2019-04-04_07-51-19 by snub_you, on Flickr

[jollyburger]

Sounds like the daycare on the Gastown parkade is going ahead:

https://urbanyvr.com/gastown-parkade-daycare

[x32ace]

I've been meaning to post these images for a while. This is what the redeveloped 401 W Georgia south plaza is to look like after renovations.

They've been gradually fencing off the plaza for the last week.

Work has also begun on the lobby renovations. I've included an image of that too.

Images are courtesy of Oxford.


401-Plaza by Lots Pictures, on Flickr

401-Aerial by Lots Pictures, on Flickr

Lobby:
401-Lobby by Lots Pictures, on Flickr

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

SPONSORED BY DAVIE & NICOLA
Davie & Nicola presents rare opportunity for old-world glamour, high-end features in West End highrise
ROBIN BRUNET Updated: February 28, 2019



https://vancouversun.com/sponsored/homes...r-high-end-features-in-west-end-highrise

https://www.davieandnicola.com/

LOL, Davie & Nicola sales launching today with prices around $1,700 sq/ft. You'd have to be a fool to lock into those prices, and 2 bedrooms at 671 sq/ft?!? Puhleeze.

https://twitter.com/SteveSaretsky/status/1113936977148014592

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by logan5

I'm willing to bet that whoever develops the St. Paul's site gets all 1.9 million sq feet built, or even more. The City will almost certainly have to make concessions in order to preserve the original St. Paul's building. I predict that we will see a very tall building on this site. Certainly much taller than anything in Vancouver right now.

It's hilarious, look down on the comments on the Vancouver Sun article, and you'll see people wanting the site to be converted to social housing. Are you for real?

Who's going to pony up a Billion dollars, you?

Originally Posted by Changing City

There's a report in the Vancouver Sun that the St Paul's site is on the market. If you dig back on the new St Paul's thread you'll see they were hoping to get $500m from the existing site. It's now assessed at $784m.

This is the detail that will affect what get's built instead of the hospital "The brochure says the property has an FSR (floor-space ratio) of 6.6, which means in theory you could build 1,928,751 sq. ft. on the site. But a city spokesperson said various factors may limit the square footage to 1.4 million.

“Based on some very preliminary analysis and taking into account view corridors, shadow analysis of nearby parks, on-site open space, heritage retention, tower form and separation, and transportation requirements, it is anticipated that the density achievable on the site under the existing zoning could be in a range of roughly 1.4-million sq. ft. gross floor area,” said a city spokesperson in an email."

Originally Posted by rofina

The FSR for such a premium DT site seemed quite low to me. Something like 6.5?

Also - who has pockets deep enough to buy this for 800-900. That has to fit into some 2 decade dvelpment plan for sure.

On the flip side - how often does this much land come up for sale i the centre of a City?

Its an interesting one, no doubt.

Not often. The last time a lot this size was sold for redevelopment was Westin Bayshore, which was (coincidentally) 6.6 acres. However, that sold for about ~$311M, adjusted for inflation. (https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/westin-bayshore-hotel-sold-vancouver-redevelopment/)

$800M for this site is asinine. There are some developers who might have pockets large enough and portfolios luxurious enough to justify it (like Westbank, or Concord), but why?

I'm not so worried about density- DT seems to almost always be rezoned to CD-1, and the fact that this site is going to pay off a hospital and preserve such an important building means the City is much more likely be generous handing out density.

Westin Bayshore has fewer limitations when accounting for viewcones and heritage preservation requirements. $290M ($311M today adjusted for inflation) is reasonable, if perhaps slightly risky, if you plan on demolishing it and cramming as much density as possible on the site.

That's not possible for St. Paul's. Half the site is unusable due to heritage preservation, and the viewcones limit it to ~19-20 stories. You should be able to get heritage preservation density, and maybe the city will be rational and allow for significant viewcone penetration and density waivers, but say that gets you to 25 stories, over an effective land area of 3 acres. The development may have to be a curtain of towers just to be profitable.

(Note: Westin Bayshore has about 5.8 acres of developable land (mostly excluding the seawall), and St. Paul's has ~3.2 acres of developable land. I rest my case.)

https://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm#

Originally Posted by officedweller

Looks like the former Expo 86 BC Pavilion / Edgewater Casino Building has been re-branded the "Harbour Convention Centre" (a year ago!):

http://harbourconventioncentre.com/

Why? Isn't it going to be demolished soon? Why rename it?

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2019/04/03...ll-thought-out-downtown-office-building/

Originally Posted by dleung

Love fine-grain additions to the skyline, as always. Looks almost Richard Rogers-esque. The less we see of the Capitol the better.

I'm curious why they didn't pull the podium massing right up to Capitol's firewall?

FSR limitations? Honestly, I doubt it will happen, but I hope the positive reception may result in slightly more FSR leeway.

That interstitial space really does seem strange.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I am surprised that wasn't part of the plan, but who knows what will happen if/when the budget balloons for the new St. Paul's.

Mt. SJ has a long history and is an important part of the community there (not unlike St Pauls in the West End). I would expect some local resistance to any plans.

I would also add that nothing in the new St. Pauls design (or any VGH plans) accommodate the additional capacity that the loss of MSJ would entail. It's a productive hospital for a number of routine procedures.

Yeah, they probably want to keep MSJ- it's not like the New St. Paul's has the excess capacity anyways.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by x32ace

I've been meaning to post these images for a while. This is what the redeveloped 401 W Georgia south plaza is to look like after renovations.

Thanks!
Looks a bit sparse.

Originally Posted by fredinno

Why? Isn't it going to be demolished soon? Why rename it?

It's still a going concern and generating revenue...

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

https://urbanyvr.com/international-village-tinseltown-for-sale

I mean, it could get better with the NEFC and East downtown redevelopments.

Paris Square might stick around, due to lack of redevelopment opportunity if nothing else. It seems strange that a site so close to Skytrain would fail. Henderson Place seemed to be decent as well, if a bit ugly. I at least hope any redevelopment keeps the mall (which would limit development to the South-east parking lot, on Lincoln and Westwood.

International Village? Don't know. Seems like a decent place to tear-down and build condos and streetfront retail though.

[Migrant_Coconut]

So long as the Cineplex gets rebuilt, I'm happy. Right now it's kind of like downtown's cinematic bargain bin.

[fredinno]

I've noticed that these sites:

seem to be missing from Concord Pacific's Pacific Place development plans. I'm assuming they're owned by them, so what happened?

Is there anything that's going to be built on them, especially as the Arc is now being completed?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I've noticed that these sites:

seem to be missing from Concord Pacific's Pacific Place development plans. I'm assuming they're owned by them, so what happened?

Is there anything that's going to be built on them, especially as the Arc is now being completed?

Those are some of the non-market housing sites that Concord are required to keep, and sell to the City at their historic value, if the City can generate the funds to build on them. There's supposed to be a complicated negotiation between Concord and the City about those, and several other sites nearby, with the intention of actually getting non-market housing built. Other levels of government funding might be involved as well, with recent changes in policy to support non-market rental.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Those are some of the non-market housing sites that Concord are required to keep, and sell to the City at their historic value, if the City can generate the funds to build on them. There's supposed to be a complicated negotiation between Concord and the City about those, and several other sites nearby, with the intention of actually getting non-market housing built. Other levels of government funding might be involved as well, with recent changes in policy to support non-market rental.

How many years has it been since the City were supposed to generate the funds now? Around 30 years and still not a single cent generated? Hmmmm.

Sobering to think how they can generate those billions to tear down the viaducts and build more "affordable" housing at the flats as promised, or build that Art Gallery (if the City has a part in it). Even small town Whistler has the best looking art gallery in existence now.

Whistler's Audain Art Gallery:
https://www.reminetwork.com/articles/b-c-firms-win-wood-design-building-awards/
https://www.google.com/search?q=whistler...w5A6oQ9C96BAgBEBk&biw=1529&bih=970&dpr=1

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

How many years has it been since the City were supposed to generate the funds now? Around 30 years and still not a single cent generated? Hmmmm.

The sites near these were developed by Concord between 15 and 20 years ago. The sites that Concord developed 30 years ago had the associated non-market housing built at the time, because the Federal and Provincial governments in those days were still funding non-market housing. Then they stopped - except for a few specific programs almost no new non-market housing was funded for many years.

They only started financing again a few years ago, and so these can now move forward. Concord couldn't build on them in the meantime, so they were effectively land banked until finances became available.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by fredinno

It's hilarious, look down on the comments on the Vancouver Sun article, and you'll see people wanting the site to be converted to social housing. Are you for real?

Who's going to pony up a Billion dollars, you?




Not often. The last time a lot this size was sold for redevelopment was Westin Bayshore, which was (coincidentally) 6.6 acres. However, that sold for about ~$311M, adjusted for inflation. (https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/westin-bayshore-hotel-sold-vancouver-redevelopment/)

$800M for this site is asinine. There are some developers who might have pockets large enough and portfolios luxurious enough to justify it (like Westbank, or Concord), but why?

I'm not so worried about density- DT seems to almost always be rezoned to CD-1, and the fact that this site is going to pay off a hospital and preserve such an important building means the City is much more likely be generous handing out density.

Westin Bayshore has fewer limitations when accounting for viewcones and heritage preservation requirements. $290M ($311M today adjusted for inflation) is reasonable, if perhaps slightly risky, if you plan on demolishing it and cramming as much density as possible on the site.

That's not possible for St. Paul's. Half the site is unusable due to heritage preservation, and the viewcones limit it to ~19-20 stories. You should be able to get heritage preservation density, and maybe the city will be rational and allow for significant viewcone penetration and density waivers, but say that gets you to 25 stories, over an effective land area of 3 acres. The development may have to be a curtain of towers just to be profitable.

(Note: Westin Bayshore has about 5.8 acres of developable land (mostly excluding the seawall), and St. Paul's has ~3.2 acres of developable land. I rest my case.)

https://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm#



Why? Isn't it going to be demolished soon? Why rename it?





FSR limitations? Honestly, I doubt it will happen, but I hope the positive reception may result in slightly more FSR leeway.

That interstitial space really does seem strange.



Yeah, they probably want to keep MSJ- it's not like the New St. Paul's has the excess capacity anyways.

I don't get why the City makes everything so complicated: Just allow a 80 storey tower to be built there, with the condition that the entire heritage structure has to be preserved, and hand over that 500mil cash to build the new hospital. That's it, and it's not that hard.

Screw the viewcones and nimbys: they don't have a say in this.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The sites near these were developed by Concord between 15 and 20 years ago. The sites that Concord developed 30 years ago had the associated non-market housing built at the time, because the Federal and Provincial governments in those days were still funding non-market housing. Then they stopped - except for a few specific programs almost no new non-market housing was funded for many years.

They only started financing again a few years ago, and so these can now move forward. Concord couldn't build on them in the meantime, so they were effectively land banked until finances became available.

Gotcha and thanks. Ahh yes, Phase 3 of Yaletown right up to Granville Bridge are the ones with the vacant social housing lots. But it still doesn't explain how they could not gather up enough funds to build at least one building. They could channel CDCs from other developments all over the city to fund the housing. There have been many misplaced priorities for between 15 to 20 years.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I've noticed that these sites:

seem to be missing from Concord Pacific's Pacific Place development plans. I'm assuming they're owned by them, so what happened?

Is there anything that's going to be built on them, especially as the Arc is now being completed?

They should consider putting a mall and a couple of office buildings there, seriously.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Vin

They should consider putting a mall and a couple of office buildings there, seriously.

I mean, the social housing is only supposed to go up to 10 stories, so the city could sell airspace to build stuff on top. Which will hopefully happen. As well, I'll be waiting to see on what happens to the 3 sites Concord is being allowed to keep. The proposals aren't out yet though.