Gas Prices

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

A fair price for carbon should be just above whatever value is commercially viable to recapture it. I'm thinking that's at least $200/ton, which as you say is 4-5x our current tax $40 on April 1st, set to hit $50 in 2021. Sweden's is something like $140US right now.

If it is true that we can capture carbon for $200/ton, and that is scalable, then the solution to climate change is remarkably easy, and we can do it now. $200/ton isn't actually very much - gas in Canada will be less than $2/L, which is still less than some countries in Europe.

Just charge people for the carbon they emit, and pay someone else to get rid of it. And if it's easy for someone to not produce at all, or produce less, they can choose to pay less.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

Because we generally don't refine enough product in BC to begin with, and thus need to import it in from other jurisdictions.

A expanded Trans Mountain pipeline will better serve Albertan refineries in supplying BC with fuel, including the fairly new Sturgeon refinery.

Refineries are at max capacity and nobody is building any more. Nothing suggests more pipeline capacity would increase gasoline supply. TM2 is for bitumen export, 100%.

[WestCoastEcho]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Refineries are at max capacity and nobody is building any more. Nothing suggests more pipeline capacity would increase gasoline supply. TM2 is for bitumen export, 100%.

1. Except for the brand new $9.4 billion dollar Sturgeon refinery coming online right now near Edmonton, which is currently producing about 35,000 barrels of diesel per day. And this is only just the first phase; by the completion of all three phases, Sturgeon is capable of processing 150,000 barrels of oil per day.

2. Reducing pipeline constraints will allow more refined product to be shipped to the PNW from Alberta, which has a production surplus of refined product. Remember, BC gets 55,000 barrels per day of refined fuel from Alberta from the existing Trans Mountain pipeline, while 30,000 barrels a day comes from Washington State refineries.

3. The expanded Trans Mountain pipeline also includes expansion of the Sumas spur line, which feeds Washington state refineries. Currently, 54% of the capacity the current pipeline supplies goes to Washington State along the Sumas spur.

Remember, Washington state refineries mostly run on Alaskan crude, supplemented by crude oil coming from pipelines, and from rail:

https://fortress.wa.gov/ecy/publications/documents/1808005.pdf

The US market is broken into Petroleum Administration for Defense Districts (PADDs) and PADD 5 (the West Coast, Alaska and Hawaii) is not effectively interconnected to the rest of the US by pipelines. As such it mostly must be self-sufficient or must import oil.

The thing is, Alaska's oil fields are starting to run dry:

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPAK2&f=A

Because Alaska's production of crude oil is in continual decline, barring a major oil discovery in Alaska that's relatively easy to access, PADD 5 is experiencing a supply shortage of crude oil, which is causing pressure on pricing for refined products.

As such, in recent years, the Washington state refineries have been looking for alternative sources of crude, and they've been sourcing from both whatever they can get from Trans Mountain, and via oil by rail shipments (mostly Bakken crude with some Canadian oil sands supply as well), which currently make up over 25% of Washington state's imports.

Right now, the current pipeline is over 30% over subscribed by shippers looking to ship through the pipeline, and Trans Mountain has been running at capacity for years:
https://www.neb-one.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/trnsprttn/2016/ppln-cpcty-eng.html#s12

4. The expansion of Trans Mountain also includes the refurbishment of the existing pipeline, which would be set aside for the transport of lighter grades of crude and refined product, thereby reducing bottlenecks on the existing pipeline.

[mcminsen]

Marine Drive, North Vancouver, March 10 '19, my pic

[officedweller]

Same price as Burrard St. Chevron (near 4th Ave.) yesterday.

Apparently another carbon tax increase is coming April 1st.

In the case of British Columbia, April 1, another $5.00-a-ton carbon tax, which works out to about 1.1 or 1.2 cents a litre.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4809320/bc-gas-prices-2019/

[Omnitheo]

1.2c a litre seems like nothing when the gas companies themselves are charging such outrageously high prices.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Omnitheo

1.2c a litre seems like nothing when the gas companies themselves are charging such outrageously high prices.

It isn't. But whenever taxation changes on gas, it's brought up as the problem. Nevermind the wild fluctuations in price (mostly up) when there is no taxation change.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by mcminsen

Marine Drive, North Vancouver, March 10 '19, my pic

This is when I miss my Jetta TDI. Interestingly I heard a VW ad on the radio this week touting the fact they had lots of certified used diesels available. Shame they (and most of the other German brands) have ditched them in North America.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Omnitheo

1.2c a litre seems like nothing when the gas companies themselves are charging such outrageously high prices.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Blame the lack of refining in the lower mainland, then maybe can have a civil conversation. Otherwise...

[retro_orange]

Why build another refinery when they can continue with the status quo and arbitrarily jack up prices on a whim and a weak excuse.

"Washington refinery is shut down for maintenance" - as if no refinery has ever had to shut down for maintenance. If they look they can find the space for another refinery but they like the current setup, short term corporate gain for long term consumer pain.

Gas tax isn't the problem with price fluctuation, people could stomach the higher price if it stayed at a constant rate year round. I don't think it's much of a coincidence now that the 'summer blend' of gas that's supposed to be cheaper is coming through soon, though now we have mysterious gas price hikes.

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Gas tax isn't the problem with price fluctuation, people could stomach the higher price if it stayed at a constant rate year round. I don't think it's much of a coincidence now that the 'summer blend' of gas that's supposed to be cheaper is coming through soon, though now we have mysterious gas price hikes.

I thought it was the other way around - "summer blend" gas has more expensive additives which make the gas itself more expensive.

Either way you're not wrong, we seem to be incapable of calling out the collusion among the oil/gas companies that's very obvious. Eventually they're going to stop caring about trying to make the excuses sound credible and they'll just trot out Dan McTeague as per usual to say "gas is up 7 cents a litre tomorrow, blame the fact it's a Wednesday".

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by bluefox

I thought it was the other way around - "summer blend" gas has more expensive additives which make the gas itself more expensive.

Either way you're not wrong, we seem to be incapable of calling out the collusion among the oil/gas companies that's very obvious. Eventually they're going to stop caring about trying to make the excuses sound credible and they'll just trot out Dan McTeague as per usual to say "gas is up 7 cents a litre tomorrow, blame the fact it's a Wednesday".

Whoops, got my ramble messed up! Thanks. My frustration lies with the insane price fluctuation and the interconnection between the oil and gas industry and the auto industry. Gas gets more expensive year over year yet all car companies advertise to us and sensationalize is big SUV's and trucks then say "that's what the market wants". It's no wonder aerodynamic sedans and lower cars aren't being pushed by the auto industry anymore, they get better gas mileage by design.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by bluefox

Either way you're not wrong, we seem to be incapable of calling out the collusion among the oil/gas companies that's very obvious. Eventually they're going to stop caring about trying to make the excuses sound credible and they'll just trot out Dan McTeague as per usual to say "gas is up 7 cents a litre tomorrow, blame the fact it's a Wednesday".

McTeague has turned into a CTF mouthpiece at this point.

Funny at all the anger directed towards the big 3 cell providers, for exactly the same thing.

[ClaytonA]

Just talking to someone the other day with a 2017 Hyundai Ioniq EV who has never paid to charge her car (daily driver for work commute)… Almost 3 years...

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by bluefox

I thought it was the other way around - "summer blend" gas has more expensive additives which make the gas itself more expensive.

Either way you're not wrong, we seem to be incapable of calling out the collusion among the oil/gas companies that's very obvious. Eventually they're going to stop caring about trying to make the excuses sound credible and they'll just trot out Dan McTeague as per usual to say "gas is up 7 cents a litre tomorrow, blame the fact it's a Wednesday".

The different gas blends has to do with the RVP (Reid vapour pressure). The higher the temperature, the more likely gasoline is to vapourize which can increase air pollution and cause vapour lock in the fuel lines. In the winter, they can mix in more butane in the gasoline blend which is cheaper. In the summer, they have to go with a purer blend of petrol which is expensive. Butane also naturally has higher octane while petrol doesn't so it requires an octane boost from other means.

Diesel on the other hand has the opposite problem, it's more expensive in the winter because it needs anti gelling properties and people use diesel (fuel oil) for heating. But the seasonal difference in price of diesel is a lot less than gasoline.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

Just talking to someone the other day with a 2017 Hyundai Ioniq EV who has never paid to charge her car (daily driver for work commute)… Almost 3 years...

Yep, and if you're driving an old clunker now you could get up to $16k in government money once the new Federal credit kicks in:

Incentives for new electric vehicle in B.C. could add up to $16K

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by s211

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Blame the lack of refining in the lower mainland, then maybe can have a civil conversation. Otherwise...

if you remove all the GVRD taxes etc its what 15c per litre now?

In Northern BC and Northern Alberta it's 126.9 - 129.9, a little further south it was 119.9 about a week ago.

Add in the extras paid in Vancouver that adds up to 1.35 - 1.45

[SpongeG]

Hydrogen fuel-cell fills coming to North Vancouver

Brent Richter / North Shore News
MARCH 22, 2019


Colin Armstrong, CEO of North Vancouver-based HTEC, says hydrogen fuel-cell electric vehicles will be hitting the market in the Lower Mainland this year and he’s building the North Shore’s first hydrogen fuelling station to be ready. photo Mike Wakefield, North Shore News

The North Shore is soon to get its first hydrogen fuel-cell filling station.

North Vancouver-based HTEC announced at the Vancouver International Auto Show this week its plans to build a hydrogen fuel pump adjoining the 7-Eleven at Westview Shopping Centre this summer.

“It’s been in the works for quite some time. We are building a network of six of the stations in the Lower Mainland, and this is getting ready to allow the sale of hydrogen fuel-cell electric vehicles,” said Colin Armstrong, HTEC CEO.

Right now, there are only about six hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles in the Lower Mainland (and Armstrong’s is one of them), and there is only one Vancouver station that offers fills.

But that’s about to change, Armstrong said.

Currently, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai and Mercedes-Benz are producing hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles for markets around the world, and retail sales are expected to launch in Vancouver by the end of the year. Vehicle prices have not been released as yet, but Armstrong said he expects to see them in the $50,000 to $70,000 range.

In California, hydrogen cars outnumber those in British Columbia by about 1,000 to one. That is thanks to the state’s mandate for zero-emission vehicle sales, Armstrong said.

The B.C. government announced last year that by 2040, only zero-emission vehicles will be for sale in the province.

...

https://www.nsnews.com/news/hydrogen-fuel-cell-fills-coming-to-north-vancouver-1.23671542

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

McTeague has turned into a CTF mouthpiece at this point.

Funny at all the anger directed towards the big 3 cell providers, for exactly the same thing.

Exactly, and yet somehow, he's not only not discredited, he's literally the only person asked to comment on gas prices. He's a bought and paid-for shill who only exists to deflect blame to whatever reason of the week he and his industry pals cook up. One week it's taxes, next it's weather, then our refusal to increase pipeline capacity (which has nothing to do with gasoline), then the week after that we go back to blaming taxes again.

As you alluded, imagine if the media went to the same person every time for comment on cell phone bills and the foundation of that person's arguments was always "well, you have to understand that...". Canadians wouldn't have any of that.

So what's the difference?

[paulsparrow]

Originally Posted by WestCoastEcho

Simple. You just do. The border guards don't care, as long as you are honest about it. They probably have heard that answer probably a dozen times in a single day.

At Blaine and the truck crossing a good percentage of cars are doing just that including myself. Take a Jerrycan and fill it while your at it. Many also have mail boxes to they time a fill up with getting their mail (again saving on massive duty and mail costs crossing the boarder).

Thousands do it a day every day.