Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

But yeah, I get what you're saying, but the situation is a bit different- West Van is the terminus here, so if they don't want it, you can't force them to have it. Just passing through an area with minimal demand or reason to redevelop is a different story. A neighborhood with a bored subway but no stop, after all, may as well have no subway.

..... What. Even if city boundaries ended at 0 metres above ground, we'd still need Point Grey's permission in case the TBM created a sinkhole in the middle of Sasamat. To say nothing, of course, of a one-stop subway's usefulness (or lack thereof).

And there's plenty of demand. Remember that the loudmouths do not speak for everybody - the First Nations at Jericho and Lelem are supportive, as are several residents at the open houses.

[Sheba]

City of Vancouver opens public discussion on future of Broadway corridor

The City of Vancouver launched a two-year consultation process Wednesday to gather public input on the future of the Broadway corridor as it plans to build a new subway line.

City planners said the building of the Broadway Subway provides significant new opportunities for redeveloping the neighbourhoods and streets around the busy thoroughfare.

"By putting the heavy mover of people under the surface we have an opportunity to reinvent what Broadway itself looks like as a major street," said Gil Kelley, the city's general manager for planning.

Construction of the subway line connecting VCC-Clark station to Arbutus Street is expected to begin next year and last five years. The line will then be extended to the University of British Columbia.

...

The consultation begins with an online survey and five open houses to be held over the next two weeks. The open houses will be held at the following locations:

• March 7, 3-7 pm at City Lab, 511 West Broadway
• March 8, 3-7 pm at City Lab, 511 West Broadway
• March 9, 12-4 pm at City Lab, 511 West Broadway
• March 13, 3-7 pm at Kitsilano Neighbourhood House, 2305 West Seventh Avenue
• March 14, 3-7 pm at Kingsgate Mall, 370 East Broadway

[SFUVancouver]

^ Just a head's up: the survey is not yet live.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

^ Just a head's up: the survey is not yet live.

Yeah, I just copied what was in the article.

[Hooknose]

[QUOTE=VancouverOfTheFuture;8491835]no, i am generally fine with the Canada-Line and i don't blame them for the station sizes either. i am also happy that it was underground and not elevated so the median could be maintained.

I DO blame them for the small station sizes. It would have cost nothing to allow a space for expansion, in some future, to 60 and then 80 meter stations.

Take the station at the Casino. 40 meter platform and just at the end, the two guideways come together. That prevents any expansion unless you kill the existing line, for a year, while you tear down the "come together" guideway, rebuild it with space in between for another 40 meters.

I do blame them for a dumb, stupid, short sighted, penny pinching philosophy, all backed by the arrogant attitude .. "no one will use this for 10 years".

I am not anti Quebec but I will bet you on ten to one odds that new metro line for Montreal (which is elevated like skytrain on both ends and underground in the City Centre) will have 80 meter platforms.

Suppose this was all some eastern plot to a) give us a subway but b) build it in such a way that is it permanently crippled.

Kind of a "thumb your nose at the West" move.

[Rico]

[QUOTE=Hooknose;8500233]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

no, i am generally fine with the Canada-Line and i don't blame them for the station sizes either. i am also happy that it was underground and not elevated so the median could be maintained.

I DO blame them for the small station sizes. It would have cost nothing to allow a space for expansion, in some future, to 60 and then 80 meter stations.

Take the station at the Casino. 40 meter platform and just at the end, the two guideways come together. That prevents any expansion unless you kill the existing line, for a year, while you tear down the "come together" guideway, rebuild it with space in between for another 40 meters.

I do blame them for a dumb, stupid, short sighted, penny pinching philosophy, all backed by the arrogant attitude .. "no one will use this for 10 years".

I am not anti Quebec but I will bet you on ten to one odds that new metro line for Montreal (which is elevated like skytrain on both ends and underground in the City Centre) will have 80 meter platforms.

Suppose this was all some eastern plot to a) give us a subway but b) build it in such a way that is it permanently crippled.

Kind of a "thumb your nose at the West" move.

Wow. Just wow. Very little about the Canada line is the fault of the contractors who built it. The faults can be directly traced to cheap ideological politicians who did not understand the demand for transit in Vancouver and to a more limited extent Translink for not pushing for a more future proof system.

[red-paladin]

It was the Mayor's Council and the BC Liberals that were to blame for the Canada Line design. Full stop. The consortium that built it was just putting into place the design requirements they were given. Bombardier et Al, were not allowed to take economies of scale into account to 'level the playing field'.

SNC lavalin would be happy to build an 80m or 100m platform true SkyTrain line if they were given the money, and the federal government just chips in after the province has made up their mind.

[misher]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

It was the Mayor's Council and the BC Liberals that were to blame for the Canada Line design. Full stop. The consortium that built it was just putting into place the design requirements they were given. Bombardier et Al, were not allowed to take economies of scale into account to 'level the playing field'.

SNC lavalin would be happy to build an 80m or 100m platform true SkyTrain line if they were given the money, and the federal government just chips in after the province has made up their mind.

No it’s the voters for being unrealistic. Look at them, there demanding an extension to UBC and Langley when there’s no money for it+higher priority projects and everyone knows it. We’re already taking on a ton of debt to pay for all these infrastructure projects and the voters want more!

[bardak]

Originally Posted by misher

No it’s the voters for being unrealistic. Look at them, there demanding an extension to UBC and Langley when there’s no money for it+higher priority projects and everyone knows it. We’re already taking on a ton of debt to pay for all these infrastructure projects and the voters want more!

Fist of all Skytrain to along Broadway is the single most important transit project in the lower mainland. The Langley extension is due to local politics but if that is what must be done to make the Broadway extension happen so be it.

As for government Debt the BC government debt to GDP ration is currently falling and the Federal debt to GDP has been falling or flat since 2012. So we seem to be doing fine in that regard. As far as I understand it municipal property taxes are about average so I don't see why they could not be increased slightly to provide the local contribution to fund such a critical piece of infrastructure. Not to mention that such critical infrastructure will have sizable positive economic impact.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

No it’s the voters for being unrealistic. Look at them, there demanding an extension to UBC and Langley when there’s no money for it+higher priority projects and everyone knows it. We’re already taking on a ton of debt to pay for all these infrastructure projects and the voters want more!

A) Both projects are of the highest priority, and Langley will be fully funded.

B) Wait 'till you hear about MMT...

[Sheba]

I wasn't quite sure where to post this

Sebastian Zein is concerned about a plan for 67 units of market housing with ground floor retail space in his Kitsilano neighbourhood.

Zein is not against the development proposal. He just wants to see more density as the neighbourhood becomes part of the growing transit corridor that will soon explode with SkyTrain expansion to UBC.

“I really think we should be looking at 12 storeys minimum,” he said.

...

“I think the problem is with the rules, that don’t treat central transit hubs like 4th and Macdonald like the central parts of the city that they are,” Zein said. “We shouldn’t be keeping people out of parts of the city like this.”

Already a key stop for bus service to UBC and downtown Vancouver, the area adjacent to the Broadway corridor is only expected to grow.

...

When asked if the current low rise landscape along the West 4th and Broadway transit corridor from Arbutus to UBC was going to be able to accommodate growth over the next 50 years, Vancouver’s mayor told Global News that any future Kitsilano density decisions will be done with public consultation.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5039002/kitsilano-building-proposal-skytrain/

[GenWhy?]

Next door is a rezoning for a 6-storey rental... that'll be a battle and a half. I don't blame them for going with "neighbourhood friendly" condos. A 2-4 year delay for a unprofitable rezoning in Kits is a waste of time.

[fredinno]

Why are CBC comments always so cancerous?

[officedweller]

Concerns raised that SNC-Lavalin troubles could impact Metro Vancouver transit plans

...
NEWS 1130 reached out to B.C.’s transportation minister for comment, but was told the minister is not available for an interview.

In a statement, the ministry says it is “unable to comment on the court case, or regarding potential proponents who may respond to the Request for Qualifications.”

“That said, it’s government’s responsibility to do extensive due diligence when it comes to procurement and selecting a short-list of companies that can deliver the project on-time and on-budget. We use open procurement processes and are dedicated to getting the best value for people in B.C. There are many checkpoints in the procurement process, including the procurement team, project board or steering committees, legal counsel, fairness advisor, and a relationship review committee.”

“There are several types of equipment and components used on SkyTrain that can be supplied by any number of companies. This includes the guideway structure, the rail, trains, communications equipment and other subsystems. SNC Lavalin and Bombardier do not hold patents on equipment or components that could not be supplied by others. Automated train lines are popular around the world and that growth has brought more choice in the market. Many companies can deliver rapid transit infrastructure and fleets,” it added.
...

https://www.citynews1130.com/2019/03/11/...-trudeau-interfered-in-snc-lavalin-case/

[Sheba]

The first section of a long article about how wrong Colleen Hardwick is:

Vancouver councillor claims SkyTrain is a 'proprietary technology,' but this is not true

A motion written by Non-Partisan Association city councillor Colleen Hardwick that seeks a “Review of the SNC-Lavalin Relationship with the City of Vancouver” is scheduled to be deliberated by Vancouver City Council next week, although nearly all of its details relate directly to TransLink and the provincial government.

More importantly, many of the assertions and claims that are used to support the motion’s goals and intents are simply markedly untrue or irrelevant to SkyTrain.

The motion ultimately calls for the suspension of both phases of the Millennium Line’s Broadway Extension — the fully-funded project to Arbutus Street that will begin construction next year, and the planned unfunded project to continue from Arbutus Street to the UBC campus — until the “matters [questioned in the motion] have been fully reviewed and confirmed to the City of Vancouver’s satisfaction.”

In her motion, Hardwick wrote that the “Expo and Millennium lines are a proprietary unconventional railway called SkyTrain, which the technical patents are owned by Bombardier Inc. and the engineering patents owned by SNC-Lavalin.”

While SkyTrain is certainly the name of Metro Vancouver’s backbone rail transit system, in the same way London’s subway is called the Underground, it is not a propriety technology nor do these two companies hold any patents to it.

“SkyTrain technology is not proprietary,” TransLink spokesperson Jill Drews told Daily Hive. “While the vehicles and technology must be tailored to each agency’s system, the automated technology at the heart of our SkyTrain system is not unique or proprietary – several companies can deliver rapid transit infrastructure and fleet.”

“The benefits of automated rapid transit technology are being recognized around the globe. A number of agencies are choosing automated train-control systems while many agencies with established systems – including the London Underground and Paris Metro – are retrofitting them.”

This was also echoed by the provincial government, which owns the region’s SkyTrain system and allocates TransLink with the responsibility to oversee it. As it is the owner of SkyTrain, the provincial government is also leading the charge with the Broadway Extension project on behalf of TransLink.

“SkyTrain is a brand name for the automated rail system in Vancouver and is not a technology. There are several types of equipment and components used on SkyTrain that can be supplied by any number of companies,” said the BC Ministry of Transportation in a statement to Daily Hive.

...

[SpongeG]

this won't start till 2020? I thought it was going to start this year

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

this won't start till 2020? I thought it was going to start this year

Requisitioning starts this year - I don't recall anything about construction.

[Hooknose]

[QUOTE=bardak;8500853]Fist of all Skytrain to along Broadway is the single most important transit project in the lower mainland. The Langley extension is due to local politics but if that is what must be done to make the Broadway extension happen so be it.

No gets the possibilities of the M Line.
Once built from UBC to Coquitlam ... you will have the following:

2 world class universities
several community colleges
Art centres
The provinces number one medical centre
3 Regional shopping centres on the line (and four more via the canada line - with one change at Broadway)
Airport and downtown with one change at Cambie and Broadway
Mount Pleasant and lake City for tech centres, with another 550 start ups at UBC, no longer orphaned once the line is extended.
Rapid transit from Mission to the Port Moody station, via a shuttle system using a small number of cars and running all day
A gazillion condos to live in
All the recreational possibilities and restaurants you could want.

You could live (from birth to death) on the M line and have everything just a hop away and never, ever need a car.
No traffic jams, no delays, predictable travel times .. all for one yearly transit pass.

For anyone reading this, please remember Bob Metcalfe's law (he invented the Ethernet) ... when you add a node to a network, the value of the whole network goes up.

The extension to UBC makes a condo or retail business in Coquitlam rise in value.
The extension to Langley make a condo in Metrotown go up.

Non thinkers just evaluate the cost of an extension in terms of some local traffic calculation (and make a Canada Line mess everytime).
Visionaries see it differently.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The first section of a long article about how wrong Colleen Hardwick is:

Read the comments on that. They're a mess.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Read the comments on that. They're a mess.

It's more like a few diehard Rail for the Valley trolls v. everybody else. "Olympic tram moves fifty thousand people an hour?!?" Get the everlasting f**k outta here, that's not a train, that's a conveyor belt!