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  #9641  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 7:31 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is online now
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Let's hope we get one more big blizzard this winter to make sure we get the bug out of winter operations. I would hate to see major problems showing up next winter.
     
     
  #9642  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 7:58 PM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Let's hope we get one more big blizzard this winter to make sure we get the bug out of winter operations. I would hate to see major problems showing up next winter.
Well, realistically there will always be some winter problems. Everyone else has them:

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2016/02/05/parts-of-red-green-t-lines-shut-down-during-snow

What we want them to be is an exception to the rule, not the norm. We also want it to be a partial shutdown (e.g between say Blair and St Laurent) rather than the entire line.
     
     
  #9643  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 8:49 PM
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Listing to the FEDCO presentation. A little over 30 minutes in. So apparent Hubley is just a "plant" asking soft-ball questions to quash media reports and make Manconi, City Staff, OC Transpo (and RTG) look good.
     
     
  #9644  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 8:58 PM
PHrenetic PHrenetic is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Listing to the FEDCO presentation. A little over 30 minutes in. So apparent Hubley is just a "plant" asking soft-ball questions to quash media reports and make Manconi, City Staff, OC Transpo (and RTG) look good.
Good Day.

Yeah.... after his 'performance' yesterday on the tour, holding court, presenting of expectations of 'good news' at the FEDCO briefing,
ducking questions from a controlled media presence ..... pure patsy / shill / set-up man.
Did we expect any better, given control-freak Jimmy's selections for the committees ?
No hope of getting much out of him for four years.

Whoof !
     
     
  #9645  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 9:00 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Listing to the FEDCO presentation. A little over 30 minutes in. So apparent Hubley is just a "plant" asking soft-ball questions to quash media reports and make Manconi, City Staff, OC Transpo (and RTG) look good.
Yep, I listened to the whole thing. Hubley is a joke. The other councillors have varying degrees of incredulity, but Hubley is basically spoon-feeding City Staff easy questions. On the other end of the spectrum, Menard asks some good questions but also is seemingly looking for any reason not to support Stage 2.
     
     
  #9646  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 9:09 PM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Yep, I listened to the whole thing. Hubley is a joke. The other councillors have varying degrees of incredulity, but Hubley is basically spoon-feeding City Staff easy questions. On the other end of the spectrum, Menard asks some good questions but also is seemingly looking for any reason not to support Stage 2.
Well, let's figure out who would vote what. Menard's riding won't benefit from Stage 2 so he loses nothing by voting against it. Despite Mathieu Fleury's seeming enthusiasm for trains, he also loses nothing by voting against it.

Councillors in Kanata and Barrhaven have the hardest choice, if they vote against it, they might not get rail for a generation, but their constituents are probably most likely to sacrifice transit when push comes to shove yet will also scream loudly that everyone has a train except them. Orleans, and wards in inner west Ottawa will almost certainly vote for it, they have a lot to lose. Dianne Deans on the other hand has a choice between taking "meh" rail now, or maybe nothing at all for her residents that already hate the road and transit situation.
     
     
  #9647  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 9:13 PM
sseguin sseguin is online now
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I have shared the Confederation Line update from today's FEDCO meeting, which includes the news release, meeting audio, and the presentation (hoping to have it available shortly) shown at the meeting on O-Train Fans.

You can find it here : https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/confederation-line-update-fedco-march-5-2019
     
     
  #9648  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 9:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
Well, let's figure out who would vote what. Menard's riding won't benefit from Stage 2 so he loses nothing by voting against it. Despite Mathieu Fleury's seeming enthusiasm for trains, he also loses nothing by voting against it.

Councillors in Kanata and Barrhaven have the hardest choice, if they vote against it, they might not get rail for a generation, but their constituents are probably most likely to sacrifice transit when push comes to shove yet will also scream loudly that everyone has a train except them. Orleans, and wards in inner west Ottawa will almost certainly vote for it, they have a lot to lose. Dianne Deans on the other hand has a choice between taking "meh" rail now, or maybe nothing at all for her residents that already hate the road and transit situation.
Yep, other councillors (besides Menard, Fleury, and Deans) that also seem to be considering a no vote are:
  • McKenney
  • Leiper (will likely vote yes IMO if he can't get a delay)
  • Brockington
  • Meehan (I expect she will also vote yes if she can't get a delay, but she is asking a lot of questions and doesn't seem happy about Stage 2)

Like you said, inner wards and south end wards. Not enough to stop Stage 2 though, I predict it will be an easy win for Watson.
     
     
  #9649  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 9:27 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is online now
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Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
Well, let's figure out who would vote what. Menard's riding won't benefit from Stage 2 so he loses nothing by voting against it. Despite Mathieu Fleury's seeming enthusiasm for trains, he also loses nothing by voting against it.

Councillors in Kanata and Barrhaven have the hardest choice, if they vote against it, they might not get rail for a generation, but their constituents are probably most likely to sacrifice transit when push comes to shove yet will also scream loudly that everyone has a train except them. Orleans, and wards in inner west Ottawa will almost certainly vote for it, they have a lot to lose. Dianne Deans on the other hand has a choice between taking "meh" rail now, or maybe nothing at all for her residents that already hate the road and transit situation.
Diane Deans ward does not get much from Phase 2. Walkley and South Keys stations are on the edge of the ward are slight improvements but otherwise her ward gets the status quo.
     
     
  #9650  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 9:36 PM
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So here is the "no" block:

https://www.catherinemckenney.ca/blog/2019/3/5/lrt-stage-2-too-many-unknowns

It appears I missed Chiarelli as a dissenting vote. I'm surprised, his riding includes Iris and Baseline Stations.

Also looks like Fleury and Brockington are not included in this delaying action, at least not ahead of time.

*Edit - sorry, I realize this discussion should go in one of the Stage 2 threads*
     
     
  #9651  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 9:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Diane Deans ward does not get much from Phase 2. Walkley and South Keys stations are on the edge of the ward are slight improvements but otherwise her ward gets the status quo.
Don’t forget the pedestrian and cycling improvements like the extension of the Sawmill MUP south and the MUP overpass of Hunt Club. And I think the Uplands and Airport stations are technically in Ward 10 as well.

Also Deans’ and Menards’ wards will benefit from transitoptions being provided to south to avoid more car traffic in their wards.

More importantly, this is supposed to be a system. It’s supposrd to work in its entirety not just benefit individual wards along the way.
     
     
  #9652  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 10:03 PM
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They are running trains at Bayview tonight... in the snow
     
     
  #9653  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2019, 11:17 PM
sseguin sseguin is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sseguin View Post
I have shared the Confederation Line update from today's FEDCO meeting, which includes the news release, meeting audio, and the presentation (hoping to have it available shortly) shown at the meeting on O-Train Fans.

You can find it here : https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/confederation-line-update-fedco-march-5-2019
Presentation is now available on O-Train Fans at the link above.
     
     
  #9654  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2019, 12:23 AM
Hybrid247 Hybrid247 is offline
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Originally Posted by sseguin View Post
Presentation is now available on O-Train Fans at the link above.
Going through the presentation now and it seems it was put together to throw some shade at Joanne Chianello and the nonfactual claims she made in her most recent article

I'm all for reporting that heavily scrutinizes and criticizes public-funded projects like this, but Chianello's work often seems like sensationalism disguised as investigative journalism. Many the points she makes can be easily fact checked and dismissed.
     
     
  #9655  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2019, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Which 4 stations are not complete? I assume Rideau is one. Are the three western stations (Tunnies, Bayview and Pimisi) the others?
According to the FEDCO presentation, it's actually Rideau, Parliament, Tunney's and St Laurent that aren't yet finished. St Laurent is quite the surprise. Any ideas on what the hold up is there?
     
     
  #9656  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2019, 12:47 AM
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According to the FEDCO presentation, it's actually Rideau, Parliament, Tunney's and St Laurent that aren't yet finished. St Laurent is quite the surprise. Any ideas on what the hold up is there?
Good Day.

With no evidence , but personal observation over the years - leaks. Bad ones.
Watching through the glass when possible during construction, I repeatedly saw water stains and liquid water in the rail RoW (not from trains or equipment). There were times this was marked off by orange spray paint or other indicators.
I have to think that, the same as over the preceeding years, the water leaks through the roof are catching them up, since they have basically not had the opportunity to reconstruct the bus pad overhead to any serious degree.

Also, last time I was there, the escalators were all tarped over again. Curious.

Just my opinion.
     
     
  #9657  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2019, 1:03 AM
pattherat pattherat is offline
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Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
Going through the presentation now and it seems it was put together to throw some shade at Joanne Chianello and the nonfactual claims she made in her most recent article

I'm all for reporting that heavily scrutinizes and criticizes public-funded projects like this, but Chianello's work often seems like sensationalism disguised as investigative journalism. Many the points she makes can be easily fact checked and dismissed.
Wholeheartedly agree. I listened to the presentation in its entirety, and the winter ‘issues’ were centered around logically explained minor incidents. All of them based around the track not being fully cleared of snow during the major storm.

She basically reported the text of the ‘leak’, taken entirely without context and with the exclusion of the subsequent follow up that was done to correct and mitigate the problems.

Irresponsible at the minimum, considering many councillors were quoting that article in their hesitation to support stage 2.
     
     
  #9658  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2019, 1:04 AM
pattherat pattherat is offline
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Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post
Good Day.

With no evidence , but personal observation over the years - leaks. Bad ones.
Watching through the glass when possible during construction, I repeatedly saw water stains and liquid water in the rail RoW (not from trains or equipment). There were times this was marked off by orange spray paint or other indicators.
I have to think that, the same as over the preceeding years, the water leaks through the roof are catching them up, since they have basically not had the opportunity to reconstruct the bus pad overhead to any serious degree.

Also, last time I was there, the escalators were all tarped over again. Curious.

Just my opinion.
Incorrect. They stated clearly in the presentation that St Laurent is solely awaiting the ventilation test to be completed. After that they claimed it would be ready for certification.

Edit: grammar
     
     
  #9659  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2019, 1:05 AM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is online now
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Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
According to the FEDCO presentation, it's actually Rideau, Parliament, Tunney's and St Laurent that aren't yet finished. St Laurent is quite the surprise. Any ideas on what the hold up is there?
It was mentioned in the meeting that it's ventilation systems tests that need to be completed.
Edit: Oops, posted above right before me^
     
     
  #9660  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2019, 1:07 AM
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LRT builder nets unflattering hat trick after city confirms RTG will miss third handover deadline

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: March 5, 2019


The Rideau Transit Group can’t finish the $2.1-billion Confederation Line LRT system by a March 31 deadline, while city council needs to decide Wednesday if it wants to spend $4.6 billion more to expand the O-Train network.

RTG says it can deliver Stage 1 of the LRT system sometime in the second quarter of the year, which means by the end of June.

“OC Transpo is ready. The public is ready,” John Manconi, the city’s transportation general manager, told reporters Tuesday after a finance and economic development committee meeting.

“Every person I talk to can’t wait for the system. You’ve all told me that individually, and yeah, it’s been delayed. But really complicated things that are worth it need good oversight, which we’ve done, and safety and reliability has been the cornerstone of this and that’s what we continue to do.”

Manconi said he learned last Friday that RTG would miss this month’s deadline, the third time the builder hasn’t been able to complete the 12.5-kilometre LRT line by a promised handover date. The previous deadlines were May 24, 2018 and Nov. 2, 2018.

The LRT contract gives RTG 60 days to propose a new handover date, but the company says it won’t need the full 60 days to identify when the city will get the keys.

It was only on Feb. 12 that Peter Lauch, the chief executive of RTG, told councillors at a finance committee meeting that the company would deliver the LRT system by March 31. City hall bosses didn’t buy it.

Lauch, who appeared again at the finance committee meeting on Tuesday, said the fleet availability and testing status at the end of February compelled him to notify the city that a March 31 handover wasn’t going to happen.

The city will penalize RTG another $1 million for missing this deadline, just like it did for missing the November 2018 deadline. The penalty didn’t apply to the May 2018 deadline.

Councillors went digging for specifics of the holdup, knowing that 24 hours later they would be asked to approve rail extensions across Ottawa as part of the Stage 2 project. The expanded LRT system will also use the same Alstom Citadis Spirit trains engineered for Stage 1.

Council’s decision on Wednesday is about awarding contracts to extend LRT to Trim Road, Algonquin College and Moodie Drive, and extend the Trillium Line to Limebank Road and the Ottawa International Airport. Council is scheduled to vote on awarding the Confederation Line expansion contract to Kiewit and Vinci and the Trillium Line expansion contract to SNC-Lavalin.

Six councillors — Rick Chiarelli, Diane Deans, Jeff Leiper, Catherine McKenney, Shawn Menard and Carol Anne Meehan — want council to delay the vote until March 27 so politicians fully understand the implications of the Stage 2 program.

As for Stage 1, Manconi seemed confident that RTG could get the job done on by the end of June.

Testing and commissioning of the trains and the paperwork on safety certification are the major things standing in the way of the city’s receiving the LRT system.

The 13 stations are nearing completion, with all but Tunney’s Pasture, Parliament, Rideau and St. Laurent stations ready for occupancy.

All 34 LRT vehicles have been built and are available for testing. Twenty-four of the Thales on-board control computers have been certified. So far, as many as 15 vehicles have been tested on the tracks at once, but the city wants to see the system stress-tested with at least 20 running at the same time.

A major test using 15 coupled trains — which are two vehicles joined together, and four other vehicles on standby — needs to be perfect before the city takes possession of the LRT line, since that’s the service plan for the busiest times in the transit system.

Train operations in winter conditions consumed much of the committee meeting.

The trains have been cold-weather tested at the National Research Council, and although Manconi noted the Citadis parent model is used around the world, including in cold-weather climates, he said those cities might not have comparable snowfall to Ottawa.

When it comes to snowfall, it’s not about the trains — it’s about keeping the tracks clear, he said.

RTG’s maintenance arm, Rideau Transit Maintenance, which has a 30-year LRT maintenance contract with the city, is tweaking its winter procedures in response to what the company learned about operations over the winter. The company has acquired a “melter” machine to help rid the rails of snow and ice. In heavy snowfalls, Transpo will run trains overnight to keep the tracks clear.

With a delivery date projected in the April-June window, RTG might not get to a necessary 12-consecutive-day test period of the full fleet during the most wintry conditions of the year.

Mayor Jim Watson said he believes there has been lots of time to test the rail system in an Ottawa winter and, he noted, there’s still all of March.

“I have every confidence that the systems are going to be fully tested out,” Watson said. “We won’t sign off or accept a substandard or unsafe product from RTG.”

RTG is likely burning through borrowed money since the company hasn’t received a dime from the City of Ottawa since February 2018. The city halted the “milestone” payments to RTG because there have been no milestones for which to compensate the builder.

There was no information during the meeting about the financial state of RTG.

Lauch said after the meeting he didn’t have time to answer questions from reporters.

The city has frozen transit fares until July 1 because the LRT system isn’t ready yet. Watson said he would be open to continuing the freeze until the LRT system opens, but the decision is up to council.

The mayor couldn’t say when transit customers would be riding the trains.

“I’ve given up predicting what date it’s exactly going to fall to,” Watson said.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ms-rtg-will-miss-third-handover-deadline
     
     
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