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  #9561  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 4:10 PM
CityTech CityTech is offline
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7am on both weekends would make more sense. Its 2019, there's no reason why Sunday service should be any less than Saturday.
     
     
  #9562  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
7am on both weekends would make more sense. Its 2019, there's no reason why Sunday service should be any less than Saturday.
To be honest, half of our local bus routes don’t even start till 9. So there’s not going to be a lot of people taking the train at that time.
     
     
  #9563  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 7:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrusKafaiwu View Post
To be honest, half of our local bus routes don’t even start till 9. So there’s not going to be a lot of people taking the train at that time.
Like I said earlier, it really depends on how “laid back” the city is on weekends.

Who knows, maybe people all of a sudden get “diligent” even on Sundays too, so OC Tranpo has to start running buses at 6 a.m. Again, where I used to live, buses start running at 5 a.m. on Sundays.
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  #9564  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 7:58 PM
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Like I said earlier, it really depends on how “laid back” the city is on weekends.

Who knows, maybe people all of a sudden get “diligent” even on Sundays too, so OC Tranpo has to start running buses at 6 a.m. Again, where I used to live, buses start running at 5 a.m. on Sundays.
What are people doing at 5 am on Sunday? Stores don’t open until 11, if people are going to a religious those seem to be mid morning.
     
     
  #9565  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 7:59 PM
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7am on both weekends would make more sense. Its 2019, there's no reason why Sunday service should be any less than Saturday.
Opening hours at stores and other destinations are different on Sunday.
     
     
  #9566  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 9:08 PM
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What are people doing at 5 am on Sunday? Stores don’t open until 11, if people are going to a religious those seem to be mid morning.
Work. Doctors, nurses, security guards, airport employees. Not all of us can sleep in on Sundays
     
     
  #9567  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 9:27 PM
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So, as a compromise, please run night buses every 20-30 minutes until the first departure of the train on Sunday.
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  #9568  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrusKafaiwu View Post
To be honest, half of our local bus routes don’t even start till 9. So there’s not going to be a lot of people taking the train at that time.
People often have a higher chance of getting a ride to the Transitway on the weekends/evenings.
     
     
  #9569  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 9:44 PM
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Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey View Post
Work. Doctors, nurses, security guards, airport employees. Not all of us can sleep in on Sundays
If you want a service that works for all shift workers it would have to run 24/7. That is an enormous cost for a very small number of users.
     
     
  #9570  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2019, 9:58 PM
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If you want a service that works for all shift workers it would have to run 24/7. That is an enormous cost for a very small number of users.
The service should be tuned to its users which tends to be shift workers and other working people. Most night shifts end at 7-7:30am. Most grocery stores are open 7-11. T And I can tell you the bulk of grocery store and retail employees arrive by transit and this is a huge labour force.

I spent 6 years working in various roles from clerk to management for various LCL sites across Ottawa including the challenging flagship store at Westboro and it is ridiculous that Ottawa transport is starting at 8 am on a Sunday when so many of its core client base need to get to work or come home in that key 7 am window- and stores are pretty busy at opening hour as lots of, especially transit dependent retired people, make it their core routine to show up at the store in the first hour to shop "at its best" i.e fully stocked before the weekend hordes. If you actually talk to these clients - especially elderly- to understand them better it is often a big part of keeping themselves mobile and on a regular schedule that they show up at opening hour, and they tend to be pretty talkative to management and employees, as they tend to want to be more than "just a number" considering they live in those communities for decades. This dynamic is the dynamic we want to foster as it builds better communities, and public transportation is a part of that dynamic.

But my life perspective will always be skewed by my experience working in this environment in my younger 20s.

Go to the Westboro Superstore at 7-8am on Weekends and you'll see its already pretty busy.

As long as the night bus system is well established it might not be too bad, and might be part of the math offsetting the expensive of the system.

It certainly isn't a small section of OC Transpo's user base! Remember we're trying to not have a suburban upper-middle-class commuter transit system for the Ottawa bureau-brats!
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  #9571  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2019, 10:04 AM
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'Unreliable' LRT trains can't handle Ottawa winters, internal reports reveal
Reports obtained by CBC show more serious issues than the public's heard about

Joanne Chianello · CBC News · Posted: Mar 04, 2019 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: an hour ago

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-trains-unreliable-says-report-1.5038832?cmp=rss
     
     
  #9572  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by OttawaSteve View Post
'Unreliable' LRT trains can't handle Ottawa winters, internal reports reveal
Reports obtained by CBC show more serious issues than the public's heard about

Joanne Chianello · CBC News · Posted: Mar 04, 2019 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: an hour ago

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-trains-unreliable-says-report-1.5038832?cmp=rss
Ah yes, doom, doom Doooommm!!! Well have to pull the whole thing down!!! It won't open until 2076!!

The press is a bit of a dog with a bone right now. While I totally expect RTG to miss the next date, once you start digging for faults you're always going to find them.

They never report on what the actual results of these reports are, like the construction deficiency reports, or what RTG/City are planning to do to mitigate issues found, they only focus on the problems documented. The point of these reports is so action plans can be developed. Maybe they'll plow more often, add heaters, etc, but the press isn't interested in that part.

It's actually good this isn't a municipal election year. If this had been last year, it would have resulted in stage 2 being paused, and then the funding from other levels would dry up while we dithered, leaving us with a rump of a rail system for a generation.
     
     
  #9573  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2019, 11:33 AM
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Why weren’t these problems discovered last winter? THe Eastern LRT has been running a long time.

Phase 2 has to get delayed.
     
     
  #9574  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2019, 11:51 AM
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Why weren’t these problems discovered last winter? THe Eastern LRT has been running a long time.

Phase 2 has to get delayed.
If it gets delayed it gets cancelled. We'll end up regretting that decision decades from now when we're still transferring at Tunney's while council debates the umpteenth plan to restart building rail.


The RTG theme song is "sunshine and lollipops", they never think anything is wrong. Meanwhile the press only reports every fault found out of context. The true state of things is in the middle somewhere.

I'll give you an example right from this article:

"CBC has reported before on issues with the Alstom Citiadis Spirit — an untested light-rail vehicle – that has been posing problems.

After the major snow storm last month, not a single car was tested on the track for more than six days."

The implication here are the trains are so bad it took days for them to run after the snow storm. The truth is a snowblower the next day damaged the signalling system, which has nothing to do with the Citadis vehicles themselves.

That the blower could damage a track *is* a problem that needs to be fixed, but you're getting a misleading picture here from the media.
     
     
  #9575  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2019, 12:23 PM
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Another rant


"The on-board heating system doesn't always work, and neither does the communications system. Late last week, one train had to be towed back to the garage by another train — not the first time that's happened — and an operator reported smelling smoke at a station."

The implication here is that we bought a bunch of unproven lemons. Why exactly are the trains running up and down the track right now? It's not because someone wants to play choo-choo, the entire point of testing is to find problems *before* it's handed over.

It's also why I was shocked, simpy shocked, when there were problems listed in the station deficiency reports that the media gleefully reported on. Who'd have thought that inspections to find problems found problems. Amazing I say....

What I want is honesty, not an equal amount of pessimism to balance RTG's rose tinted glasses
     
     
  #9576  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by OttawaSteve View Post
'Unreliable' LRT trains can't handle Ottawa winters, internal reports reveal
Reports obtained by CBC show more serious issues than the public's heard about

Joanne Chianello · CBC News · Posted: Mar 04, 2019 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: an hour ago

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-trains-unreliable-says-report-1.5038832?cmp=rss
'Unreliable' LRT trains can't handle Ottawa winters, internal reports reveal
Reports obtained by CBC show more serious issues than the public's heard about

Joanne Chianello · CBC News
Posted: Mar 04, 2019 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 3 hours ago


Ottawa's $2.1-billion light rail system, supposed to be finished by the end of this month, will not only miss its third completion deadline but is experiencing issues far more serious than city officials have led the public to believe, according to internal reports obtained by CBC.

The reports from the city's rail operations show a litany of issues with the Confederation Line — the east-west system being built by the SNC Lavalin-led Rideau Transit Group — especially when it comes to the system's ability to handle Ottawa winters.

"Vehicles are currently unreliable to the point that it has not been demonstrated that operations can be sustained during a winter weather event," according to one report from last week.

The reports say that "panels are coming loose and breaking on LRVs [light-rail vehicles] due to snow building up on the vehicles," and that snow and ice are "frequently causing the doors to freeze shut."

Both brakes and bogies — the frames underneath the rail cars — also freeze up if the vehicles "sit for any amount of time" outdoors during a snowfall.

The on-board heating system doesn't always work, and neither does the communications system. Late last week, one train had to be towed back to the garage by another train — not the first time that's happened — and an operator reported smelling smoke at a station.

The reports are far from a comprehensive review of the LRT project, largely documenting problems with the light rail vehicles over just the last few weeks.

But those problems paint a more dire picture of the obstacles facing LRT than what's been revealed to the public.

CBC has reported before on issues with the Alstom Citiadis Spirit — an untested light-rail vehicle – that has been posing problems.

After the major snow storm last month, not a single car was tested on the track for more than six days.

All 34 rail cars must be operational and signed off as good-to-go before RTG turns over the LRT system to the city. Each train set that will run on the track will be comprised of two cars, for a total of 17 full trains — 15 of which will be in service at any given time, allowing for two spares.

Last month, only about six cars were being tested. That's up to 12 now, according to the city's rail director, Michael Morgan. Still, few rail cars have been tested from one end to the other of the 12.5-kilometre track, and there's been no testing at all of two-car train sets.

Ten of the light-rail cars aren't even allowed on the track yet.

It's also not clear how the city would ensure the system works in winter if RTG hands over the system in the spring or later, once snowy weather necessary for testing has passed.

Morgan said only that RTG would "need to demonstrate that the system works to our satisfaction in winter."

Asked about the report that says vehicles are "unreliable", Morgan says the LRT project is a work in progress.

"It's a two-billion-dollar system that we've built — a lot of infrastructure, a lot of moving parts and pieces. And so we need to we need to show that all of those things are working, and that's why we're testing, and there are issues that arise in any testing program," he told CBC.

While the need for testing isn't disputed, RTG CEO Peter Lauch told councillors at a meeting last month that the consortium expected to make its March 31 deadline.

However, given the issues itemized in the documents obtained by CBC, Lauch must have known at the time that meeting the deadline was all but impossible.

OC Transpo boss John Manconi was a bit more forthcoming, saying he was "highly skeptical" that RTG would be finished on time. Manconi only made that comment only after a pointed question from Coun. Diane Deans, more than an hour and a half after that meeting had started.

Deans now wants to know why a fuller picture of the LRT progress wasn't volunteered to councillors. In an interview, she said she plans to ask more pointed questions at Tuesday's finance and economic development committee, where an LRT update is the first item on the agenda.

"We need some real specifics, and it appears that you have to know what question to ask in order to get to the heart of the issue," said Deans.

"It's very concerning because it leaves a big question mark about when Stage 1 will be ready — will it be ready soon or will it be a long delay?"

"And is this a fixable problem, or is it something that is structurally a major problem in a winter city like Ottawa?" Deans added. "I just don't know the answers to those questions."

Morgan said he is "confident" the LRT will be finished in this calendar year and that RTG is "getting very close."

Coun. Jeff Leiper, who's returning to City Hall Monday after recuperating from a mild heart attack, has serious concerns about the consequences of the delay on the existing transit system.

He wants straight answers from staff — no matter how politically inconvenient they may be.

"Clearly, at this point we need to have an idea from staff about just how long this is going to be and I don't know why they're not telling us that," he said.

"Yes, it leads to some very uncomfortable conversations. Yes, it reflects poorly on the city and on city council that we are this far behind. But the time to protect our reputation is long past. We need honest answers today."

In light of the LRT delays, Leiper said the city must put more money into the existing OC Transpo service. "We know that our transit system is falling apart at the seams," he said, adding that he's worried there's no money in the 2019 budget to improve bus service.

Council is set to vote on both the 2019 budget and the $4.66-billion expansion of the LRT on Wednesday. Leiper argues council should delay that vote until it gets a clearer picture.

"I think it would be a mistake to go ahead with Stage 2 until we understand the dynamic that got us to this point," he said.

"I don't think that we have the time left right now to try to understand why we're at the point we're at and be able to vote with confidence on a multi-billion dollar second stage."

Joanne Chianello is an award-winning journalist and CBC Ottawa's city affairs analyst. You can email her at [email protected] or tweet her at @jchianello.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-trains-unreliable-says-report-1.5038832
     
     
  #9577  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2019, 2:26 PM
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There is absolutely no justification to muzzle the press. Otherwise, we are left with just rumours. We are finally receiving honest information that allows us to access what is reasonable for a start-up date. Are we content with just receiving RTG's comments on the March 31 deadline?

If we are unhappy with the 'negative' news from the press, our City Councilors should be more forthright with their constituents and provide a more balanced picture. At least my councilor, Diane Deans, is asking questions on behalf of the public. What about the rest?
     
     
  #9578  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2019, 2:28 PM
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The Montreal Azur trains were tested for years and had hundreds of issues that needed to be fixed. They are above average reliability now. I think most consortia are underestimating testing time. These trains will run for decades, you need to be certain they are running well.
     
     
  #9579  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2019, 2:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post
Good Day.

Just out at St.Laurent station at about 10:00 and there were no trains visible, no trains on the schedule display, and lots of large snow chunks (10 - 30 cm plus in size, solid looking) in the rail RoW and on the rails - inside the station. Not exactly good looking.

? inquiring minds ?
Good Day. Above from Feb.20 ....

So...confirmed. We have a problem of snow packing into the interstitial spaces within the LRVs, and not being effective at all in pushing / blowing snow aside.

Cure - real snout plows, door heaters, bogie heaters, brake warmers, better cabin heaters, .......
Gee - ya think we live in a cold / snowy place ?

Whoof !
     
     
  #9580  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2019, 2:49 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
There is absolutely no justification to muzzle the press. Otherwise, we are left with just rumours. We are finally receiving honest information that allows us to access what is reasonable for a start-up date. Are we content with just receiving RTG's comments on the March 31 deadline?

If we are unhappy with the 'negative' news from the press, our City Councilors should be more forthright with their constituents and provide a more balanced picture. At least my councilor, Diane Deans, is asking questions on behalf of the public. What about the rest?
Agreed...I'm 100% content with the press identifying issues. RTG or the city can feel free to clarify anything they write...but...surprise surprise, they will likely stay silent. I think the CBC is doing a good job of uncovering information that is not filtering to the public eye. They might sensationalize things-thats debatable but, RTG can prove them wrong by completing this project.

I fully hope the optimists (or realists) on this board are correct but I just have this feeling its Vimy bridge and Airport pedestrian bridge all over again.

And frankly, the look on Hubly's face when asked when the trains will be ready is much more in line with the CBC article than anything else I've heard. His response was, they will run when they are safe to run.
     
     
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