Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Truanting it at Fleetwood is going to be immensely unpopular as a ("SkyTrain to nowhere"), and as thus, should be avoided if possible. The soil near Scott Rd. Station is also peat, BTW.

They opened Columbia Station while still working on the Skybridge and opened Scott Road Station a year later. Same idea as opening to Fleetwood and then to Langley Centre.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Sheba

They opened Columbia Station while still working on the Skybridge and opened Scott Road Station a year later. Same idea as opening to Fleetwood and then to Langley Centre.

The difference is that this was a political hot-button from the start, and if it ends at Fleetwood, that money isn't coming back until perhaps another decade. Meanwile, LRT advocates are going to use the Fleetwood terminus as an argument against Skytrain.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by fredinno

The difference is that this was a political hot-button from the start, and if it ends at Fleetwood, that money isn't coming back until perhaps another decade. Meanwile, LRT advocates are going to use the Fleetwood terminus as an argument against Skytrain.

I didn't say anything about funding it in phases.

Originally Posted by Sheba

The reason I can see the Fraser Hwy extension opening being two phases is because building across the Serpentine Valley is going to be a pain in the ass. The ground was described as being similar to peanut butter, so they're going to have to build that section on piles. That is not going to be quick or cheap. So planned and worked on as a single project - but with the section to Fleetwood being opened while they're still working on the toughest section.

[officedweller]

If it's phased, the analogy would be to VCC-Clark Station - but even there, there has been development in the area during the interim, so a station at Fleetwood would probably still attract development absent the remainder to Langley.

[scryer]

Well if 1.6 billion is already committed to a transit project in Surrey and if (going by Daryl's video on his website) the cost is 2.2 billion then we are kind of half-way there for funding? How would this realistically work though or did I miss those pages and pages of discussion?

Oh and by the way I have already been dragged through the shits for suggesting that funds for a failed project (read: LRT) can be applied to a project that will legitimately happen. So you can rest your fingers from those efforts.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by scryer

Well if 1.6 billion is already committed to a transit project in Surrey and if (going by Daryl's video on his website) the cost is 2.2 billion then we are kind of half-way there for funding? How would this realistically work though or did I miss those pages and pages of discussion?

Oh and by the way I have already been dragged through the shits for suggesting that funds for a failed project (read: LRT) can be applied to a project that will legitimately happen. So you can rest your fingers from those efforts.

Well, since TransLink needs the extra $700M for cost creep, Langley itself'll probably have to wait; if they finish under-budget, then maybe they can use the surplus for stage two.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Well, since TransLink needs the extra $700M for cost creep, Langley itself'll probably have to wait; if they finish under-budget, then maybe they can use the surplus for stage two.

Unfortunately that seems realistic to me.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Well, since TransLink needs the extra $700M for cost creep, Langley itself'll probably have to wait; if they finish under-budget, then maybe they can use the surplus for stage two.

I don't think that's how it works...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I don't think that's how it works...

Isn't it? The federal and provincial funding is specifically earmarked for transit in Surrey, nothing else; if TransLink ends up spending half a billion less than expected, it's not like we're going to just give it back, we'll just pool it with the Phase 3 money.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Isn't it? The federal and provincial funding is specifically earmarked for transit in Surrey, nothing else; if TransLink ends up spending half a billion less than expected, it's not like we're going to just give it back, we'll just pool it with the Phase 3 money.

Funding is for a specific project. Any unused money will be returned to the contributors.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Waders

Funding is for a specific project. Any unused money will be returned to the contributors.

I have never been involved in a Transit project.

However the other projects I have been involved that are jointly funded by multiple levels of government, usually there is a cash flow plan and contributions follow the plan.

More likely, the federal government will provide the funds as required through the life of the project. If the project under spends then the funds just never show up to be returned.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by casper

I have never been involved in a Transit project.

However the other projects I have been involved that are jointly funded by multiple levels of government, usually there is a cash flow plan and contributions follow the plan.

More likely, the federal government will provide the funds as required through the life of the project. If the project under spends then the funds just never show up to be returned.

That is correct.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by officedweller

This design for the 152nd St. station is awful.
Reminds me of some of the Honolulu station designs.
If you are on the south side of the street and want to go westbound, how do you get there?
If the station entrances were closer to the intersection, people could use the crosswalk to get to the other side.

That's why side of road stations (like along No. 3 Rd.) are preferable.
Smaller footprint, cheaper to build, easily navigable.


https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/surrey-langley-skytrain-update-february-2019

I don't think anyone else mentioned this, but if the station is only on one side of the street, if you are mid-block on the other side of the street, you would still have to walk all the way around the block. I don't see how that can be better than having a passageway you can use in the station.

Also, the height to go up and over the tracks is very little compared to going under. Compare the pedestrian overpass at New Westminster or Columbia station to Brentwood. The flight of stairs at Brentwood from the mezanine is easily twice that of the stairs. So I think if you had to count all the stairs you used in a day, you would use less at this station than at Brentwood.

You also have to consider how this station might handle bus transfers. I think most people using the station to take a westbound trains will be approaching the station from the east, thus, the stop they will get off at will be under the platform they want to use. Same when going home.

Having Brentwood station tower over a mall parking lot and car dealership for a decade wasn't a big deal, but a Brentwood style station would tower over it's established residential neighbors for decades. A sleek

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I don't think anyone else mentioned this, but if the station is only on one side of the street, if you are mid-block on the other side of the street, you would still have to walk all the way around the block. I don't see how that can be better than having a passageway you can use in the station.

Also, the height to go up and over the tracks is very little compared to going under. Compare the pedestrian overpass at New Westminster or Columbia station to Brentwood. The flight of stairs at Brentwood from the mezanine is easily twice that of the stairs. So I think if you had to count all the stairs you used in a day, you would use less at this station than at Brentwood.

You also have to consider how this station might handle bus transfers. I think most people using the station to take a westbound trains will be approaching the station from the east, thus, the stop they will get off at will be under the platform they want to use. Same when going home.

Having Brentwood station tower over a mall parking lot and car dealership for a decade wasn't a big deal, but a Brentwood style station would tower over it's established residential neighbors for decades. A sleek

Did you forget to finish your post?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I don't think anyone else mentioned this, but if the station is only on one side of the street, if you are mid-block on the other side of the street, you would still have to walk all the way around the block. I don't see how that can be better than having a passageway you can use in the station.

The main advantage of a side-of-road station is that it doesn't overshadow the street and are easy to navigate.
If built close to an intersection, the crosswalk provides easy access to the station from across the street without extra wear & tear on elevators and escalators (or additional escalators) that are prone to breaking down at stations.
Regarding flows, my concern would be about accommodating large volumes of passengers - that either disgorge from trains or arrive via bus and need to get to the other side.
In the long term, there may be commercial developments adjacent to the station that draw crowds one way or the other, so even if the bus stops are coordinated to go with the flows, there could be other demands.

[Dengler Avenue]

I don’t know if anyone’s answered this question before, but is there any merit in extending 96 B-Line to Fleetwood? What about when (or after) Expo Line Fraser Highway Extension opens?

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I don’t know if anyone’s answered this question before, but is there any merit in extending 96 B-Line to Fleetwood? What about when (or after) Expo Line Fraser Highway Extension opens?

Why?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Why?

320 runs somewhat frequently between Guildford and Fleetwood so I assume the ridership’s decent along that stretch.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

320 runs somewhat frequently between Guildford and Fleetwood so I assume the ridership’s decent along that stretch.

And there'd be plenty of riders trying to get to the SkyTrain too. Sounds like a job for a second B-Line though, rather than extending the 96.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And there'd be plenty of riders trying to get to the SkyTrain too. Sounds like a job for a second B-Line though, rather than extending the 96.

So one from White Rock Centre to Surrey Central, and another one from Surrey Central to Fleetwood via Guildford?