Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[officedweller]

FYI - this may be of interest.
It's an excerpt from the RAV Line Project Definition Alignment Study
(i.e. before the bidding by the proponents)
For No. 3 Rd in Richmond it assumed a centre median alignment and considered station configuration options.
Note that the entrance for a centre platform station would have been in the median.

This is before InTransitBC thought "outside-the-box" and built the guideway along the east side of the street.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Waders

Page 89 of the Mayors Council briefing report figure 3.3 has the Fraser Highway extension WB ridership number for year 2045. The number is probably out of date.

Super, thanks. It helps to put things into perspective. The 152 station is projected to get something like 75% of the boardings that Surrey Central will. And yeah, those numbers need to be updated but they're not going to be radically different.

[deasine]

While the station/overpass look awful, I'm sure with classic de-scoping as per usual practice with all our infrastructure projects, the overpass would be cut from the project!

For an accessible user, it might actually be easier to cross the street at the crossing instead of switching between so many elevators!

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by deasine

For an accessible user, it might actually be easier to cross the street at the crossing instead of switching between so many elevators!

Agreed. Shift the station farther east.
The one problem is that a Compass paper ticket would not allow an exit and reentry for someone who missed their stop and has to double back.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Are there projected numbers for the stations?

https://postimg.cc/McwsP97N

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

Not everything needs a spanish solution. And to have it there means the station must have island style or double stacked platform in the first place, which means splitting the guideway. This presents a new set of challenges because the station is on top of the median, thus driving up building costs. The main thing is that the second set of platforms won't be built right away, so you are essentially going for more expensive complicated design just to have the option of expansion, which makes zero economical sense. And there's no data to suggest that it'll even need such an expansion.

I know, but 152nd, 160th, and Langley Central should probably still have expansion room available. Especially Langley, with the line extending across the Value Village Parking lot to reserve space for an extension further down Fraser Hwy via Salt Ln (to Murrayville? or the Salmon River Uplands?), maybe by the 2050s-60s, consistent with the timeline for when Expo is being extended beyond King George, and how that expansion reserved space for an extension to Langley.

[officedweller]

Side platforms can be expanded by making them wider (on cantilevered supports the way bridge sidewalks are widened).

[swimmer_spe]

Do we have any idea a timeline for this? Will it be done in one single stage, or multistaged?

[Metro-One]

From the looks of the website that is still being explored. Being an election year for the feds I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of a funding boost to complete it in one stage.

And in all honesty, it should be. All that would be doing is simply moving some funding from “phase 3” into phase 2.

Not our fault that so much time and energy was wasted in the LRT nonsense and original funding negotiations were done under that failed project.

[xd_1771]

Overpasses above track level between platforms are quite common as far as elevated systems are concerned. I found several of them in Chicago while there.

Our region technically also has one at New West Station, as part of the shops complex.

Image removed without citation

The station design and placement are likely open to comments in upcoming consultation. TransLink has fervently denied that any of these renders represent final station designs or locations in recent media, so it's not like this is how it will turn out to be. That said, even if it does turn out this way, I don't necessarily think it will be that impractical and I don't even dislike it. Like, I can see myself using the south entrance and taking the elevator up to the overpass level, crossing the overpass and then descending one flight of stairs to board the northbound train. The elevator doubles as an emergency staircase, which works pretty well when you think about it.

I can also kind of see why the station is placed as it was; in case anyone didn't notice already, the rendering depicts Fraser Highway and 152nd St, and the bottom-most building on the southwest corner is actually the building that already exists at that intersection - so the location is clearly about avoiding land expropriation.

Such an overpass would almost certainly become a transit-fanning/tourist favourite since the west-facing windows would likely have a nice view of the future Surrey City Centre skyline. Some of the Chicago Green Line stations have a similar view (below is at CTA Ashland Station)

Images removed without citation

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

From the looks of the website that is still being explored. Being an election year for the feds I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of a funding boost to complete it in one stage.

And in all honesty, it should be. All that would be doing is simply moving some funding from “phase 3” into phase 2.

Not our fault that so much time and energy was wasted in the LRT nonsense and original funding negotiations were done under that failed project.

So, UBC extension or this?

[Galaxy]

Personally I am hoping we build the Surrey/Langley as well as UBC (VCC all the way to UBC) lines both all the way in one go. I would be o.k. if we sacrificed a few stations to get the lines built first. Developers and individual communities can always add stations after the trunk line is set in place. Adding stations seem so much more easier to do then to get the actual tracks built...

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Personally I am hoping we build the Surrey/Langley as well as UBC (VCC all the way to UBC) lines both all the way in one go. I would be o.k. if we sacrificed a few stations to get the lines built first. Developers and individual communities can always add stations after the trunk line is set in place. Adding stations seem so much more easier to do then to get the actual tracks built...

GVA is not vote rich enough for the Feds to go for that.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, UBC extension or this?

Not quite sure what you are trying to say.

The UBC second phase may somewhat be built as a continuation of the Arbutus phase (as in construction begins as the Arbutus phase opens) but no matter what is done now it will always be part of phase three of the 10 year plan. Far too much planning to be done. Earliest realistic construction date IMO is probably 2023 / 2024.

The Langley Line on the other hand has already had a decent amount of preliminary studies completed and is a relatively simple straight line project. Therefore with the current added planning delay of another year or so (think they said construction starting in late 2020 or 2021?) it is very feasible that the entire line can be designed and built as a single project.

Also the extra cost is under 1 billion over the current 1.6 approved. The UBC second phase I believe is over 3 billion. Either way this money will need to be spent seeing how the plan is to proceed with both projects to conclude the 10 year plan.

Just makes sense to bump that 1 billion dollars into phase 2 in order to complete the Langley Line in one project. Building the Langley Line in phases if more nonsensical than it is for the Broadway Line.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Not quite sure what you are trying to say.

The UBC second phase may somewhat be built as a continuation of the Arbutus phase but no matter what is done now it will always be part of phase three. Far too much planning to be done. Earliest realistic construction date IMO is probably 2023 / 2024.

The Langley Line on the other hand has already had a decent amount of preliminary studies completed and is a relatively simple straight line project. There for with the current added planning delay of another year or so (think they said construction starting in late 2020 or 2021?) it is very feasible that the entire line can be designed and built as a single project.

Also the extra cost is under 1 billion over the current 1.6 approved. The UBC second phase I believe is over 3 billion. Either way this money will need to be spent seeing how the plan is to proceed with both projects to conclude the 10 year plan.

Just makes sense to bump that 1 billion dollars into phase 2 in order to complete the Langley Line in one project. Building the Langley Line in phases if more nonsensical than it is for the Broadway Line.

What I mean is there are 2 extensions that are planned to be built UBC and Langley. Both have their merits. If the Federal parties are promising them, I am wondering what will be promised. They might say both, but as far in debt we are, I doubt it.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What I mean is there are 2 extensions that are planned to be built UBC and Langley. Both have their merits. If the Federal parties are promising them, I am wondering what will be promised. They might say both, but as far in debt we are, I doubt it.

As in, which one will be prioritized? I’d say UBC extension.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

What I mean is there are 2 extensions that are planned to be built UBC and Langley. Both have their merits. If the Federal parties are promising them, I am wondering what will be promised. They might say both, but as far in debt we are, I doubt it.

The Langley project already had 1.6 billion in funding approved, and trust me, not completing it to Langley is political suicide, and in all honesty a bizarre move to be done.

The Langley Line, unlike UBC, was never originally envisioned as a “phased project” so leaving it half built is a no go.

Also it is years of planning ahead of the UBC second phase, so it also has time on its side.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The Langley Line on the other hand has already had a decent amount of preliminary studies completed and is a relatively simple straight line project. Therefore with the current added planning delay of another year or so (think they said construction starting in late 2020 or 2021?) it is very feasible that the entire line can be designed and built as a single project.

The reason I can see the Fraser Hwy extension opening being two phases is because building across the Serpentine Valley is going to be a pain in the ass. The ground was described as being similar to peanut butter, so they're going to have to build that section on piles. That is not going to be quick or cheap. So planned and worked on as a single project - but with the section to Fleetwood being opened while they're still working on the toughest section.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The reason I can see the Fraser Hwy extension opening being two phases is because building across the Serpentine Valley is going to be a pain in the ass. The ground was described as being similar to peanut butter, so they're going to have to build that section on piles. That is not going to be quick or cheap. So planned and worked on as a single project - but with the section to Fleetwood being opened while they're still working on the toughest section.

Truanting it at Fleetwood is going to be immensely unpopular as a ("SkyTrain to nowhere"), and as thus, should be avoided if possible. The soil near Scott Rd. Station is also peat, BTW.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Like, I can see myself using the south entrance and taking the elevator up to the overpass level, crossing the overpass and then descending one flight of stairs to board the northbound train. The elevator doubles as an emergency staircase, which works pretty well when you think about it.

The question is - how many people will be trying to use that elevator to get to the overpass (including wheelchairs, bikes and strollers)?
If they switched back another escalator to the overpass, it would make a bit more sense for moving larger volumes of people.
i.e. think of a bus emptying out on the "wrong" side of the street below and passengers having to get to the opposite platform.

[WarrenC12]

It would be rather amazing to have 2 Skytrain extensions under construction at once. I'm not holding my breath for big federal promises though (and corresponding provincial commitments).