Sandy Hill Truck Tunnel

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's been planned and discussed for 20 or 30 years I think. And is at least partly under construction right now.

The hospital link has been completed. Nothing else is planned on the Alta Vista corridor at the present time.

The Alta Vista corridor dates back to the late 40s when the Greber plan had the railway station located south of the Walkley/Conroy intersection. The raliway station plan changed in 1959 and the revised plan had the station at the current site on Tremblay road.

The change in the railway station plan is the main reason why the Alta Vista parkway corridor (it was never really a planned transit route) remains vacant to this day.

[waterloowarrior]

Alta Vista Parkway Corridor route is in the 2013 Transporation Master Plan, but not in the "Affordable" network i.e. we don't have the money for it. TMP is up for review over the next few years.

https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/default/files/documents/tmp_map_10_en.pdf

here is the Environmental Study Report for the whole corridor from Nicholas to Conroy/Walkley

https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-en...hospital-link#environmental-study-report

[Ottawaresident]

Riverside should do, provided they remove all those bends and those tiny intersections. If they improved that hole of time called Bronson to the 417, IMPROVED not turned into freeway, that probably expensive disruptive and delayed (cough cough confederation line) could be ditched. Too much opposition anyways.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Riverside should do, provided they remove all those bends and those tiny intersections. If they improved that hole of time called Bronson to the 417, IMPROVED not turned into freeway, that probably expensive disruptive and delayed (cough cough confederation line) could be ditched. Too much opposition anyways.

You do realize that the Confederation line will, on day 1, transport 10,000 passengers per hour per direction (pphpd). Given that it will transport passengers in 2 directions, that is 20,000 passengers per hour. If we pull a Marie Antoinette and tell them to all drive cars (as you seem to imply your upgrade will allow), that would be an increase of 20,000 single occupant vehicles per hour on our city streets. That works out to 5.6 cars per second. If you consider that cars need to follow 3 seconds behind the previous vehicle, that works out to 17 new lanes of traffic.

That is with current demand (and capacity). When you consider it is able to grow to 24,000 pphpd, that means we would eventually need 40 lanes of additional traffic and we haven't even talked about parking.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by roger1818

You do realize that the Confederation line will, on day 1, transport 10,000 passengers per hour per direction (pphpd). Given that it will transport passengers in 2 directions, that is 20,000 passengers per hour. If we pull a Marie Antoinette and tell them to all drive cars (as you seem to imply your upgrade will allow), that would be an increase of 20,000 single occupant vehicles per hour on our city streets. That works out to 5.6 cars per second. If you consider that cars need to follow 3 seconds behind the previous vehicle, that works out to 17 new lanes of traffic.

That is with current demand (and capacity). When you consider it is able to grow to 24,000 pphpd, that means we would eventually need 40 lanes of additional traffic and we haven't even talked about parking.

Nicely put. Few people realize just how efficient mass transit is compared to the average Ottawa private vehicle with its 1.2 occupants.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by dougvdh

Nicely put. Few people realize just how efficient mass transit is compared to the average Ottawa private vehicle with its 1.2 occupants.

That many occupants?

[Ottawaresident]

I thought it was more, but I should have known. Ottawa, Ottawa, Ottawa ...

[AR-OTT]

Could a 4 lane tunnel connecting King Edward (north of Rideau St) to Nicolas be a viable solution? It would only take ~400m of tunneling plus another ~200m of sunken uncovered road. Getting low enough underground to get under the lrt tunnel with proper clearance would be difficult but you could start ramping down right after the Nicolas/Waller split so there would be plenty of runway to have a low enough grade.

This solution isn't a perfect link between Highway 50 and the 417 as there are still 4 traffic lights on King Edward north of Rideau. However, this is far fewer traffic lights then a truck would currently have to go through. Plus, this route has no turns at intersections. King Edward Ave. would probably have to be renamed as King Edward North and King Edward South since they no longer connect at Rideau. King Edward North would be the trunk route to Macdonald-Cartier Bridge and King Edward South could finally be the quiet pedestrian friendly street that local residences have always wanted it to be.

This route would be strengthened even further as a north/south trunk route if the Alta Vista Hospital Link is ever extended into Nicolas St.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by AR-OTT

Could a 4 lane tunnel connecting King Edward (north of Rideau St) to Nicolas be a viable solution? It would only take ~400m of tunneling plus another ~200m of sunken uncovered road. Getting low enough underground to get under the lrt tunnel with proper clearance would be difficult but you could start ramping down right after the Nicolas/Waller split so there would be plenty of runway to have a low enough grade.

This solution isn't a perfect link between Highway 10 and the 417 as there are still 4 traffic lights on King Edward north of Rideau. However, this is far fewer traffic lights then a truck would currently have to go through. Plus, this route has no turns at intersections. King Edward Ave. would probably have to be renamed as King Edward North and King Edward South since they no longer connect at Rideau. King Edward North would be the trunk route to Highway 50 and King Edward South could finally be the quiet pedestrian friendly street that local residences have always wanted it to be.

This route would be strengthened even further as a north/south trunk route if the Alta Vista Hospital Link is ever extended into Nicolas St.

Why not just cut-and-cover north under King Edward till you get closer to DFAIT, and in the other direction just straighten out your tunnel thru 'second cup' and 'university of ottawa' and pop up on the Nicholas straightaway before the highway?

[Acajack]

At the very least, for this to be worth it, everything between the vicinities of Nicholas/Laurier and King Edward/Boteler needs to be tunnelled.

[AR-OTT]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Why not just cut-and-cover north under King Edward till you get closer to DFAIT, and in the other direction just straighten out your tunnel thru 'second cup' and 'university of ottawa' and pop up on the Nicholas straightaway before the highway?

I considered that but I think the cost and disruption that it would add makes the project nonviable.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by AR-OTT

Could a 4 lane tunnel connecting King Edward (north of Rideau St) to Nicolas be a viable solution? It would only take ~400m of tunneling plus another ~200m of sunken uncovered road. Getting low enough underground to get under the lrt tunnel with proper clearance would be difficult but you could start ramping down right after the Nicolas/Waller split so there would be plenty of runway to have a low enough grade.

This solution isn't a perfect link between Highway 50 and the 417 as there are still 4 traffic lights on King Edward north of Rideau. However, this is far fewer traffic lights then a truck would currently have to go through. Plus, this route has no turns at intersections. King Edward Ave. would probably have to be renamed as King Edward North and King Edward South since they no longer connect at Rideau. King Edward North would be the trunk route to Macdonald-Cartier Bridge and King Edward South could finally be the quiet pedestrian friendly street that local residences have always wanted it to be.

This route would be strengthened even further as a north/south trunk route if the Alta Vista Hospital Link is ever extended into Nicolas St.

A tunnel connecting to Nicholas wouldn't only need to clear the Confederation Line tunnel, but also the Combined Sewage Tunnel being built deeper underground. On the surface, anything connecting to Nicholas seems to be the fastest, cheapest, most direct and efficient connection, but when we consider the underground infrastructure, it becomes much more complicated.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/co...project-behind-schedule-ottawa-1.4625056

[AR-OTT]

Originally Posted by Acajack

At the very least, for this to be worth it, everything between the vicinities of Nicholas/Laurier and King Edward/Boteler needs to be tunnelled.

That would mean tripling the length of the tunnel (and likely cost). King Edward North of Rideau St has 6 lanes so I think it could handle the added traffic from the tunnel as is.

[lrt's friend]

Do we really want to entrench the traffic sewer on King Edward even more? A short-distance tunnel will mean we accept even more traffic for the next 50 or 100 years that will continue to cut through Lower Town. Yes, it will solve some problems but I am not sure I will be happy with a solution that turns King Edward and Nicholas even more into Expressways after spending $1B.

[AR-OTT]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

A tunnel connecting to Nicholas wouldn't only need to clear the Confederation Line tunnel, but also the Combined Sewage Tunnel being built deeper underground. On the surface, anything connecting to Nicholas seems to be the fastest, cheapest, most direct and efficient connection, but when we consider the underground infrastructure, it becomes much more complicated.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/co...project-behind-schedule-ottawa-1.4625056

This would certainly complicate things. The cbc article states the sewer is 23m deep (not sure if this is uniform) and the map shows it running under Laurier St. The LRT tunnel goes under Waller St and probably hasn't descended too deep upon crossing under Mackenzie since that is still very close to the beginning of the underground section.

If the tunnel passed under Laurier at around a road surface depth of 15m it could probably continue descending to ~22m before passing under Mackenzie King which would hopefully give enough clearance to get under the lrt tunnel.

Even if it is possible for the tunnel to thread the needle between the sewer and lrt, there is almost definitely some other underground infrastructure I don't know about that would get in the way.

[AR-OTT]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Do we really want to entrench the traffic sewer on King Edward even more? A short-distance tunnel will mean we accept even more traffic for the next 50 or 100 years that will continue to cut through Lower Town. Yes, it will solve some problems but I am not sure I will be happy with a solution that turns King Edward and Nicholas even more into Expressways after spending $1B.

Maybe stage 2 could be to cut and cover King Edward all the way to Macdonald Cartier Bridge. Or at least sink it down and have grade separated cross streets going over top.

I don't think the idea of an expressway going through Lower Town is particularly appealing either but what we have now is a 6 lane bridge dumping large volumes of traffic into a winding downtown core that can't deal with it.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by AR-OTT

Maybe stage 2 could be to cut and cover King Edward all the way to Macdonald Cartier Bridge. Or at least sink it down and have grade separated cross streets going over top.

I don't think the idea of an expressway going through Lower Town is particularly appealing either but what we have now is a 6 lane bridge dumping large volumes of traffic into a winding downtown core that can't deal with it.

I wish to thank you for your creative suggestion.

[J.OT13]

The Rideau to Nicholas portion is by far the most ludicrous and dangerous of the truck route. Macdonald-Cartier is far from desirable, but does not cause as much of a threat to the area, safety wise. You definitely have the right idea AR-OTT.

I'm not a fan of the City's current route as it seems to be the longest possible corridor, and crosses a river, thus expensive and subject to issues during construction. The roundabout at the Vanier Parkway is an absolute moronic idea! Imagine semi-trailers going around that along with hundreds of cars and a few pedestrians trying to cross.

The east end bridge is looking better and better.

[OTownandDown]

Imagine if the east-bank NIMBY's weren't so powerful and we'd just created the Vanier Parkway for a purpose, to connect directly to the cross-Rideau River bridge that had ALREADY EXISTED at the foot of Stanley Park.

I mean, sure the park and parkway would have been obliterated, but then the market wouldn't have turned into a cess pool.

[OTownandDown]

Or here's a crazy one:

Expropriate the Chinese embassy, run the M-C along the river at Bordeleau Park, expand the St Patrick bridge and create better ramps onto the Vanier Parkway. Straighten out the route and allow truck traffic back onto Vanier Parkway. Done!