Sandy Hill Truck Tunnel - Page 44

Acajack · #**861** Posted **Feb 1, 2019, 9:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

That could be true when considering all vehicles. I wonder what percentage of trucks are travelling between Ottawa and Gatineau? They are the biggest problem. It doesn't make sense to have all of the Gatineau's freight funnel through central Ottawa.

"All" of Gatineau's heavy truck traffic doesn't funnel through central Ottawa.

Gatineau businesses tend to be supplied from Montreal, and these trucks would generally use the A-50 because they'd be part of a single-day run that also serves the northern suburbs of Montreal, and any of the small towns along the A-50.

You might have some trucks from the Montreal area that do both Ottawa and Gatineau, and in that case they'd need to go across the M-C at one point it's true.

But the majority of truck traffic seems to be "in-province", if you judge by the plates and language of lettering on the sides of trucks. When I see trucks at my local supermarket they're generally Quebec-plated with slogans and stuff in French.

Same goes for what you see at loading docks in Ottawa: mostly Ontario-plated with lettering in English.

Obviously there are lots of exceptions but this is how things are generally.

This is not to say there isn't interprovincial trade (and also U.S. trade) that is truck-moved. There is of course quite a bit of this too. But it's not the lion's share of the truck traffic.

Trucks bound for Gatineau from the GTA or the U.S. will take the M-C via the Nicholas-Waller-Rideau-King Edward mess, though some of them I believe may also cross at the Chaudière (depending on where they were in Ottawa beforehand and where they are going in Gatineau).

Ottawaresident · #**862** Posted **Feb 5, 2019, 3:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Trucks bound for Gatineau from the GTA or the U.S. will take the M-C via the Nicholas-Waller-Rideau-King Edward mess, though some of them I believe may also cross at the Chaudière (depending on where they were in Ottawa beforehand and where they are going in Gatineau).

As far as I know, truck traffic is not the biggest problem on the "Nicholas-Waller-Rideau-King Edward mess" . Isn't this mess the reason for the truck tunnel?

Acajack · #**863** Posted **Feb 5, 2019, 3:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

As far as I know, truck traffic is not the biggest problem on the "Nicholas-Waller-Rideau-King Edward mess" . Isn't this mess the reason for the truck tunnel?

The biggest cause of congestion is commuter traffic for sure.

But what drives the issue publicly and politically is getting huge trucks off inner city streets.

If a future solution of some kind eases the pain of car commuters, then good for them. But they're not the primary concern. This is why the door is open for a trucks-only solution like the tunnel.

Ottawaresident · #**864** Posted **Feb 5, 2019, 4:05 PM**

Trucks only isn't very viable. Maybe a tunnel with a truck clearance but with car traffic that is tolled is more viable.

OtrainUser · #**865** Posted **Feb 5, 2019, 6:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Trucks only isn't very viable. Maybe a tunnel with a truck clearance but with car traffic that is tolled is more viable.

The plan is a tunnel that is tolled for cars and trucks

YOWetal · #**866** Posted **Feb 5, 2019, 7:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

"All" of Gatineau's heavy truck traffic doesn't funnel through central Ottawa.

Gatineau businesses tend to be supplied from Montreal, and these trucks would generally use the A-50 because they'd be part of a single-day run that also serves the northern suburbs of Montreal, and any of the small towns along the A-50.

You might have some trucks from the Montreal area that do both Ottawa and Gatineau, and in that case they'd need to go across the M-C at one point it's true.

But the majority of truck traffic seems to be "in-province", if you judge by the plates and language of lettering on the sides of trucks. When I see trucks at my local supermarket they're generally Quebec-plated with slogans and stuff in French.

Same goes for what you see at loading docks in Ottawa: mostly Ontario-plated with lettering in English.

Obviously there are lots of exceptions but this is how things are generally.

This is not to say there isn't interprovincial trade (and also U.S. trade) that is truck-moved. There is of course quite a bit of this too. But it's not the lion's share of the truck traffic.

Trucks bound for Gatineau from the GTA or the U.S. will take the M-C via the Nicholas-Waller-Rideau-King Edward mess, though some of them I believe may also cross at the Chaudière (depending on where they were in Ottawa beforehand and where they are going in Gatineau).

I think there was a study on this but surely the volume of trucks across the MC is higher than up the 50 at least that has been my experience by high factor though it could be a bit of perception. I would think "stuff" is sourced from the US and Toronto as much as Montreal. The trucks in French would be from local distribution centres no? They certainly don't make or grow much in Ottawa or even Montreal and points east frankly.

Acajack · #**867** Posted **Feb 5, 2019, 8:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I think there was a study on this but surely the volume of trucks across the MC is higher than up the 50 at least that has been my experience by high factor though it could be a bit of perception. I would think "stuff" is sourced from the US and Toronto as much as Montreal. The trucks in French would be from local distribution centres no? They certainly don't make or grow much in Ottawa or even Montreal and points east frankly.

Not much from Montreal? Seriously? It's the second-biggest manufacturing region in the country and Canada's biggest trans-Atlantic port. Tons of stuff comes from there not just for Gatineau for Ottawa, Toronto, the rest of Ontario and even points west.

Just looking at a major commercial node like the general vicinity of Maloney, it's a given that many of the businesses there are supplied from the Montreal area as they are Quebec-based: SAQ, Brault et Martineau, Maxi, Métro, IGA, Provigo, Super C, Linen Chest, Adonis, Aubainerie, etc.

Beer, dairy, bread, etc. products likely come from the Montreal area as well, no matter which business they are destined for.

There are also lots of chains not based in Quebec in the vicinity like Toys R Us, The Bay, Costco, Walmart, Home Depot, Canadian Tire, Bureau en gros (Staples), etc., but many (though not all) of these have distribution centres in the Montreal area too.

This is not to say we don't get lots of stuff from southern Ontario (generally the GTA) but judging from the 18-wheelers I see, the lion's share certainly comes from Montreal and environs. I see relatively few 18-wheelers with American plates here. Obviously we get stuff from the U.S. but I guess they go to Montreal or Toronto first and then get transferred onto Quebec or Ontario plates trucks before coming here.

Stuff from the pulp and paper industry (Kruger, Résolu, etc.) is also generally predominantly oriented eastwards towards Montreal and other regions of Quebec, or northwards towards Maniwaki and the Abitibi region.

Acajack · #**868** Posted **Feb 5, 2019, 8:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I think there was a study on this but surely the volume of trucks across the MC is higher than up the 50 at least that has been my experience by high factor though it could be a bit of perception. .

For 2-3-4 axle trucks, sure. These would be inter-regional delivery trucks ferrying stuff between Ottawa and Gatineau. Ideal Roofing moving shingles between the two cities. Coca-Cola moving pop from its Ottawa bottling plant across the river. Stuff like that. Not so many 18-wheelers, even though those that do cross the M-C are numerous enough to be a pain in the 🞵🞵🞵.

J.OT13 · #**869** Posted **Feb 5, 2019, 8:30 PM**

The original plan was to have a truck-only tunnel, but the results of the initial study recommended mixed-traffic.

JM1 · #**870** Posted **Feb 5, 2019, 9:01 PM**

The problem with the KERWYN corridor is not just trucks. The area is congested because it is a major corridor with no through route (all traffic must make a series of right and left turns to navigate it). The issue is compounded by Rideau-Wellington traffic that has to re-route off the closed section of Rideau east of Sussex. Further complications result from the congested canal crossing in front of the Chateau Laurier.

The city really messed the situation up when they allowed the Condo towers in the area. That precluded low-cost tunnels from Nicholas to King Edward that could have smoothed North South flows and mitigated cross-talk with East-West flows between Rideau/King-Edward and downtown.

OTownandDown · #**871** Posted **Feb 6, 2019, 2:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

As far as I know, truck traffic is not the biggest problem on the "Nicholas-Waller-Rideau-King Edward mess" . Isn't this mess the reason for the truck tunnel?

I regularly drive down Rideau towards the market.

As soon as you hit King Edward, the road is blocked with giant trucks turning through the corridor. How could this not be the cause of congestion?

If you'd ask me, just make a short tunnel from the south end of the King Edward traffic sewer, down below the Claridge hospital, and pop back up on Nicholas after Laurier. All the turning and signalling and traffic lights are avoided on the Rideau area.

OTownandDown · #**872** Posted **Feb 6, 2019, 2:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

As far as I know, truck traffic is not the biggest problem on the "Nicholas-Waller-Rideau-King Edward mess" . Isn't this mess the reason for the truck tunnel?

I regularly drive down Rideau towards the market.

As soon as you hit King Edward, the road is blocked with giant trucks turning through the corridor. How could this not be the cause of congestion?

If you'd ask me, just make a short tunnel from the south end of the King Edward traffic sewer, down below the Claridge hospital, and pop back up on Nicholas after Laurier. All the turning and signalling and traffic lights are avoided on the Rideau area.

roger1818 · #**873** Posted **Feb 6, 2019, 2:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I regularly drive down Rideau towards the market.

As soon as you hit King Edward, the road is blocked with giant trucks turning through the corridor. How could this not be the cause of congestion?

Agreed. The trucks may be a small percentage of total traffic but they contribute more than their percentage share (even by length) of congestion. If it was a straight route with only a few traffic lights, the trucks wouldn't be much of a problem. With all the turns, they end up having to take them wide and slow. On top of that their length causes them to fill up most the short turning lanes and the overflow can cause congestion. Also, when full they can take longer to accelerate from a stop.

Quote:

If you'd ask me, just make a short tunnel from the south end of the King Edward traffic sewer, down below the Claridge hospital, and pop back up on Nicholas after Laurier. All the turning and signalling and traffic lights are avoided on the Rideau area.

Might be possible, but with the LRT tunnel in the way, they would likely have to go deep, which adds to the cost and could result in steep grades. Also, as we found out from the sink hole under Rideau, tunnelling through sand isn't without complications.

J.OT13 · #**874** Posted **Feb 6, 2019, 5:44 PM**

Also, the combined sewer tunnel also crosses paths with the Confederation Line under Laurier at Waller. And since it is a bored tunnel, it is probably much deeper, therefore any truck tunnel in that area would need to be wedged between the two, if that's even possible, or routed in a way that somehow avoids both.

Ottawaresident · #**875** Posted **Feb 8, 2019, 1:50 PM**

They could remove the Nicholas exit and connect Nicholas to Mann, and build a full interchange from Lees/King Edward onto the 417. That could partially rectify the large amounts of turns required.

JM1 · #**876** Posted **Feb 8, 2019, 9:32 PM**

Are you forgetting the future Alta Vista Transit Corridor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

They could remove the Nicholas exit and connect Nicholas to Mann, and build a full interchange from Lees/King Edward onto the 417. That could partially rectify the large amounts of turns required.