New BC Political Discussion - POST BC Election 2017

[logicbomb]

Any NDP supporter cannot deny the obvious class warfare taking place. All these wealth taxes are seriously pissing off most BCers who a) stand to inherit wealth b) are wealthy and c) are planning to move and retire banking off their home equity.

The days of BC being a blue collar/working class province are long gone. The fact that the Liberals have a strong solid base attests to this. The NDP have to modernize if they ever want to govern again. No more socialist wealth redistribution tactics. New immigrants from Asia hate anything that resembles socialism/communism ...

Always remember this. The NDP never won the 2017 election. 30 or so votes made the difference. This all DESPITE the fact that many Lib supporters didnt vote or did a protest vote because of their hatred towards Christy Clark.

[misher]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Any NDP supporter cannot deny the obvious class warfare taking place. All these wealth taxes are seriously pissing off most BCers who a) stand to inherit wealth b) are wealthy and c) are planning to move and retire banking off their home equity.

The days of BC being a blue collar/working class province are long gone. The fact that the Liberals have a strong solid base attests to this. The NDP have to modernize if they ever want to govern again. No more socialist wealth redistribution tactics. New immigrants from Asia hate anything that resembles socialism/communism ...

Always remember this. The NDP never won the 2017 election. 30 or so votes made the difference. This all DESPITE the fact that many Lib supporters didnt vote or did a protest vote because of their hatred towards Christy Clark.

Correct although you missed that most immigrants move to Canada to get away from left wing socialist nations. Not just Asians but South Americans, Africans, and Eastern Europeans. Most socialist/communist nations are not places Canadians would enjoy.

There is huge wealth redistribution being done by the NDP and technically the bottom is bigger than the top they are taking from. However, they are beginning to take from the middle as well while still only giving to the bottom. In addition, most people don't bother to go out and vote but they will once there's a new tax on them.

They basically pissed off the whole construction, real estate, and other industries by hurting the real estate market and appealing to the 15% of union workers while ignoring the 85% of private workers. These groups make up a large portion of the population.

If the NDP was smart they would have sent out those promised rental subsidy cheques as that would have won them a ton of encouragement for people to actually go out and vote. They made this a renter versus homeowner issue and thats hurt them because they've done little for renters while pissing off homeowners.

The NDP has some smart people, but I feel like there's also a lot of loons who are dragging the party down because they don't recognize reality. I think we don't see it but there must be a ton of infighting over policies.

I hope if they win this they take the hint and get their act together for the next 3 years. I'm not against what they want but I am against how they are going about it.

And if they lose in a place that's been a NDP stronghold, then yes their screwed.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Very few people would find a temporary place to live while their old apartment and building are being renovated to only move back for an exponentially higher rent for some paint, new flooring, cabinets and appliances. Likely you were living there because you didn't want to or couldn't pay for all those new finishes. There's nothing that states you get the same rent or only a marginal increase if you move back. That was my position when I was renovicted. It also took almost 2 years for my old building to be renovated. (still not done)

Unless you have an utterly amazing apartment, the vast majority would move on and even if it was so amazing, the landlord would know that and raise the rent to as much as they can get for your amazing, now 'newly renovated' apartment.

Certainly true, but it s mall step in the right direction. I wish they had forced landlords to rent back to tenants at their existing rent before renoviction. That would have taken much more steam out of the greed to add granite countertops and charge a few hundred more a month.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Any NDP supporter cannot deny the obvious class warfare taking place. All these wealth taxes are seriously pissing off most BCers who a) stand to inherit wealth b) are wealthy and c) are planning to move and retire banking off their home equity.

The days of BC being a blue collar/working class province are long gone. The fact that the Liberals have a strong solid base attests to this. The NDP have to modernize if they ever want to govern again. No more socialist wealth redistribution tactics. New immigrants from Asia hate anything that resembles socialism/communism ...

Always remember this. The NDP never won the 2017 election. 30 or so votes made the difference. This all DESPITE the fact that many Lib supporters didnt vote or did a protest vote because of their hatred towards Christy Clark.

If your retirement plan is living off the equity in your hosue, you've got bigger problems than the NDP. That's a dangeorus train of thought encouraged by all those reverse mortgage commercials. It's also screwing over the next generation who will never be able to afford those homes on the crap gig earnings so prevalent.

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Certainly true, but it s mall step in the right direction. I wish they had forced landlords to rent back to tenants at their existing rent before renoviction. That would have taken much more steam out of the greed to add granite countertops and charge a few hundred more a month.

There's a huge difference between a renovation and a renoviction. Renovictions are not allowed for minor renovations. While it is admittedly open for abuse if the landlord is having the building/unit undergo renovations that last 4+ months then the amount of money they are spending to do so must be significant. So that renovation was either sorely needed or the rent the tenant was paying was incredibly under market, not just a few hundred less. In the first case, it sucks but safety is very important too. In the second case, you got a good deal for a while, you also got free cash, you can't just milk the cow forever.

If your retirement plan is living off the equity in your hosue, you've got bigger problems than the NDP. That's a dangeorus train of thought encouraged by all those reverse mortgage commercials. It's also screwing over the next generation who will never be able to afford those homes on the crap gig earnings so prevalent.

I do understand the argument that homes are too expensive. But my belief is that as long as those homes are used by people then there is nothing wrong with market prices. Its wrong to be telling people your home is too expensive, give me your home for less and go find somewhere else to live. From the vacant home tax we can see vacancies are around 1% which is a strong hint that prices are set at the market equilibrium point. The way the NDP is going about it is to lower prices by making people want to live in their current homes less. That sets a dangerous precedent, its like saying there's a food shortage so lets make it taste worse instead of helping make more food. Right now housing starts have fallen which is really going to hit us in 5 years. The NDP needs to take action to maintain our current pace of housing construction if we want any hope of avoiding rapid price increases in the future. You cant take steps to artificially kill the market's demand while not taking steps to ensure that supply creation is artificially supported as it is naturally dropping from the decreased demand.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by whatnext

If your retirement plan is living off the equity in your hosue, you've got bigger problems than the NDP. That's a dangeorus train of thought encouraged by all those reverse mortgage commercials. It's also screwing over the next generation who will never be able to afford those homes on the crap gig earnings so prevalent.

I work for the public sector (in the Vancouver area) and can solidly say that the mean age of the employee there is in their late 40's. Many of them absolutely loath the NDP and fear their property prices dropping. Many of those nearing retirement have firm plans to sell and move to the Interior or the Island. I hear it every day. "Robbing them of their dream" will ensure they never trust or vote for a socialist government again.

The next generation is also bound to an economy tied to real estate. Decreasing demand and softening the market will undoubtedly result in many layoffs as projects are delayed/stalled. Realtors, mortgage brokers, specialists, underwriters, insurance brokers, construction, restoration workers etc...will all be impacted.

As bad as the Liberals were ethically, the economy in BC boomed with them in power. The NDP are literally catering to the poor and only the poor. Affordability was propped up to a major issue when most were doing comfortably well. Those that were wise have migrated elsewhere. The NDP has to get with the times and realize there is a lot at stake here.

With regards to Nanaimo. I know a Liberal constituency assistant that has stated that the NDP MLA's have flooded the area doing last minute campaigning and door canvassing. Based on what I am hearing...it's a lost cause. The Liberals are already preparing for a provincial election in the spring/summer.

[misher]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I work for the public sector (in the Vancouver area) and can solidly say that the mean age of the employee there is in their late 40's. Many of them absolutely loath the NDP and fear their property prices dropping. Many of those nearing retirement have firm plans to sell and move to the Interior or the Island. I hear it every day. "Robbing them of their dream" will ensure they never trust or vote for a socialist government again.

The next generation is also bound to an economy tied to real estate. Decreasing demand and softening the market will undoubtedly result in many layoffs as projects are delayed/stalled. Realtors, mortgage brokers, specialists, underwriters, insurance brokers, construction, restoration workers etc...will all be impacted.

As bad as the Liberals were ethically, the economy in BC boomed with them in power. The NDP are literally catering to the poor and only the poor. Affordability was propped up to a major issue when most were doing comfortably well. Those that were wise have migrated elsewhere. The NDP has to get with the times and realize there is a lot at stake here.

With regards to Nanaimo. I know a Liberal constituency assistant that has stated that the NDP MLA's have flooded the area doing last minute campaigning and door canvassing. Based on what I am hearing...it's a lost cause. The Liberals are already preparing for a provincial election in the spring/summer.

The NDP are literally catering to the poor and only the poor

Exactly. The middle class decides the vote and they thought the NDP would be on their side as its supposed to be the party that represents the working middle class. Instead in 18 months they've seen little in the way of benefits. They made it a renter versus homeowner thing but then they didn't do much for renters and focused everything on the poor. Taxes, taxes, and more taxes does not win you votes.

PS: Nanaimo is a NDP stronghold. I find it hard to believe it won't be hella close. But I'm not there so if your friend is saying its not close then who am I to contradict.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I work for the public sector (in the Vancouver area) and can solidly say that the mean age of the employee there is in their late 40's. Many of them absolutely loath the NDP and fear their property prices dropping. Many of those nearing retirement have firm plans to sell and move to the Interior or the Island. I hear it every day. "Robbing them of their dream" will ensure they never trust or vote for a socialist government again.

The next generation is also bound to an economy tied to real estate. Decreasing demand and softening the market will undoubtedly result in many layoffs as projects are delayed/stalled. Realtors, mortgage brokers, specialists, underwriters, insurance brokers, construction, restoration workers etc...will all be impacted.

As bad as the Liberals were ethically, the economy in BC boomed with them in power. The NDP are literally catering to the poor and only the poor. Affordability was propped up to a major issue when most were doing comfortably well. Those that were wise have migrated elsewhere. The NDP has to get with the times and realize there is a lot at stake here.

With regards to Nanaimo. I know a Liberal constituency assistant that has stated that the NDP MLA's have flooded the area doing last minute campaigning and door canvassing. Based on what I am hearing...it's a lost cause. The Liberals are already preparing for a provincial election in the spring/summer.

Interesting, you must work in the only public sector union environment that doesn't support the NDP, how unique for you. Of course, I guess if you're in the overpaid municipal management, "has never seen a wage budget go down" environment, you might feel differently.

Byelections are always a sitting governments contest to lose. If the Liberals win with their "star candidate, son of a car salesman" it won't be unsurprising. It has become clearer and clearere the BC Fiberals economic"success' was a charade built on raiding crown corps and passing the cost onto consumers or kicking it down the road. Their only economic game plan seems to have been selling the province out to the highest overseas bidder.

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Their only economic game plan seems to have been selling the province out to the highest overseas bidder.

Hmmm....which party introduced the foreign buyers tax again....? Who was it that dropped foreign sales? Hmmmm Hmmmm
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/resi...CQ7C3OGJB4.png

Meanwhile all the NDP's taxes seem to hit foreign and local alike while giving it all to the unions. So basically selling our province to unions.

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation said it has deep concerns with the B.C. government's new "union first" rule for taxpayer-funded infrastructure projects.

The Independent Contractors and Business Association said there are nearly $30 billion in government construction projects planned over the next three years and overpaying by creating a union monopoly will cost taxpayers billions of dollars.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ects-1.4749023

The billion annually through the casinos seems like short change compared to union money.

A little off topic but remember that for pensions

About 32% of the top 10's total assets are in alternative asset classes such as infrastructure, private equity, and real estate.

with

combined assets of more than C$1.1 trillion ($822 billion)

meaning there may be around $200-300 billion in pension dollars sloshing around Canadian Real Estate.
https://www.pionline.com/article/201...on-8212-report


Now once they receive more money and get more members, it will be the unions buying up all our real estate. Quadreal, the ones developing Oakridge, are owned by the pension plans.

Remember that Canadian Real Estate is worth around $4.8 trillion meaning that each $100 billion has a huge impact on our real estate market.

https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-...g-in-10-years/


So tell me how the BC Liberals were selling our real estate a billion dollars at a time overseas? Because a billion is a drop in the bucket.


And you got to love the hypocrisy since while we're complaining about foreign buyers were being a huge foreign buyer, competing with China for being one of the biggest American property buyers. So I guess its ok as long as others can't buy our real estate aye? https://business.financialpost.com/p...ers-in-the-u-s

A nice little tidbit:

Even though foreign homebuyer purchases account for approximately 5 per cent of the residential units sold in both Canada and the U.S., the opposition to foreign homebuyers is much stronger in Canada. The reason behind it is not likely the concentration of foreign homebuyers, but the difference in the pace at which home prices have recently escalated in the two countries.

So if foreign homebuyers are the issue, why isn't the US seeing our price increases after the exact same amount of foreign purchases?

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Interesting, you must work in the only public sector union environment that doesn't support the NDP, how unique for you. Of course, I guess if you're in the overpaid municipal management, "has never seen a wage budget go down" environment, you might feel differently.

Union support within crown corporations and municipal entities is significantly decreasing on the inside. Younger employees are always tossed under the bus at the expense of complacent seniors. Several prominent unions are mere shadows and on their last breaths as the employer can easily circumvent negotiated CBA's. I can comfortably state that most employees in a union are not left-wing.

Byelections are always a sitting governments contest to lose. If the Liberals win with their "star candidate, son of a car salesman" it won't be unsurprising. It has become clearer and clearere the BC Fiberals economic"success' was a charade built on raiding crown corps and passing the cost onto consumers or kicking it down the road. Their only economic game plan seems to have been selling the province out to the highest overseas bidder.

Let me repeat this. The BC Liberals economic success was allowing global money to flow into BC. Homeowners which are a majority of the province immediately saw home equity gains. Has the autonomy of our government been reduced? Yes. Was this money born from corruption and unethical sources? Some of it. I am not saying this is ethical or the right thing we should be doing we are sort of bound to this reliance now.

Guess what? Globalization results in unfettered movement of people and capital. You can limit the inflow of capital but risk losing investment and trade. Furthermore you would have to plead with the Federal government to halt immigration. This would undoubtedly cause the housing market to tank and BC much like the Western world has no other industry to provide jobs and growth. BC goes against the grain...some other province/country will gladly open their doors.

No joke. BC has tourism and real estate as primary industries. This results in the majority of seasonal + permanent full time jobs.

I am critical of the BC Liberals. Can see all the wrong they did. Can see how the media outlets such as CTV and Global BC has become a powerful tool of the Liberals (Keith Baldry/Vaughn Palmer). Ideally, I wish we could re-align all parties and have 3 main parties that reflect the voters wishes in the province... with a true centrist party. For most voters, the BC Liberals reflect their best interests.

[misher]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Union support within crown corporations and municipal entities is significantly decreasing on the inside. Younger employees are always tossed under the bus at the expense of complacent seniors. Several prominent unions are mere shadows and on their last breaths as the employer can easily circumvent negotiated CBA's. I can comfortably state that most employees in a union are not left-wing.



Let me repeat this. The BC Liberals economic success was allowing global money to flow into BC. Homeowners which are a majority of the province immediately saw home equity gains. Has the autonomy of our government been reduced? Yes. Was this money born from corruption and unethical sources? Some of it. I am not saying this is ethical or the right thing we should be doing we are sort of bound to this reliance now.

Guess what? Globalization results in unfettered movement of people and capital. You can limit the inflow of capital but risk losing investment and trade. Furthermore you would have to plead with the Federal government to halt immigration. This would undoubtedly cause the housing market to tank and BC much like the Western world has no other industry to provide jobs and growth. BC goes against the grain...some other province/country will gladly open their doors.

No joke. BC has tourism and real estate as primary industries. This results in the majority of seasonal + permanent full time jobs.

I am critical of the BC Liberals. Can see all the wrong they did. Can see how the media outlets such as CTV and Global BC has become a powerful tool of the Liberals (Keith Baldry/Vaughn Palmer). Ideally, I wish we could re-align all parties and have 3 main parties that reflect the voters wishes in the province... with a true centrist party. For most voters, the BC Liberals reflect their best interests.

Truth. When half the households own and real estate prices go up, half of the people benefit and generally the other half benefit from the wealth trickling down from jobs to taxes. However, I think most people overplay the impact of foreign sales given that data shows they are a minority.

As for illegal money, technically we likely benefited more overall from this. As Kevin O'Leary said, don't sneer at money. More money into our economy generally benefits us. All those development fees the city gained paid for a ton of amenities, modular housing, community centres, etc. Money into casinos employed people and helped pay the municipal budget.

I don't feel comfortable defending money laundering but you can't deny that there are benefits to criminals bringing their money here to spend aka give to us. Also I’m skeptical about how much money laundering of foreign money is done versus domestic.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Union support within crown corporations and municipal entities is significantly decreasing on the inside. Younger employees are always tossed under the bus at the expense of complacent seniors. Several prominent unions are mere shadows and on their last breaths as the employer can easily circumvent negotiated CBA's. I can comfortably state that most employees in a union are not left-wing.



Let me repeat this. The BC Liberals economic success was allowing global money to flow into BC. Homeowners which are a majority of the province immediately saw home equity gains. Has the autonomy of our government been reduced? Yes. Was this money born from corruption and unethical sources? Some of it. I am not saying this is ethical or the right thing we should be doing we are sort of bound to this reliance now.

Guess what? Globalization results in unfettered movement of people and capital. You can limit the inflow of capital but risk losing investment and trade. Furthermore you would have to plead with the Federal government to halt immigration. This would undoubtedly cause the housing market to tank and BC much like the Western world has no other industry to provide jobs and growth. BC goes against the grain...some other province/country will gladly open their doors.

No joke. BC has tourism and real estate as primary industries. This results in the majority of seasonal + permanent full time jobs.

I am critical of the BC Liberals. Can see all the wrong they did. Can see how the media outlets such as CTV and Global BC has become a powerful tool of the Liberals (Keith Baldry/Vaughn Palmer). Ideally, I wish we could re-align all parties and have 3 main parties that reflect the voters wishes in the province... with a true centrist party. For most voters, the BC Liberals reflect their best interests.

In summary; it sounds like you got a little in over your head in a particular 'hot topic' investment.

I can't find the poll right now but in reality more then half of metro vancouver residents want prices to fall by more than %30 so their children have a future and a life to themselves before they die and leave their assets to their children.

No asset rich parent wants to see their child languish until they die.

[misher]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

In summary; it sounds like you got a little in over your head in a particular 'hot topic' investment.

I can't find the poll right now but in reality more then half of metro vancouver residents want prices to fall by more than %30 so their children have a future and a life to themselves before they die and leave their assets to their children.

No asset rich parent wants to see their child languish until they die.

Asking if you want prices to fall though is like saying you want food to be cheaper. We can't just tell stores to sell food for cheaper. Venezuela did that, store shelves became empty, and food prices are now higher than they would have been as its all black market and many people starved. Sure some people got food for cheap, price fixing is a quick solution that is awful long term.

We also can't just put more taxes on those who purchase food so they don't want to buy it. I think everyone is ok if prices fall a bit which is what the survey showed but to do so we need to address supply as everyone needs a home but there just isn't enough homes for everyone! If you put in that survey do you want prices to fall, and are you ok if the government puts taxes on homeowners to make homes less desirable to own, you would have gotten a lot less positive responses.

I think the BC NDP will get hammered in the next election unless they change policies because they've focused solely on addressing demand and seem to have ignored the supply side of the equation. And to address demand, their policy has been to punish homeowners for owning homes which homeowners did not expect when they supported affordable housing.

If they had ordered every major BC city to create at a minimum 2% of their total supply in housing every year or pay a tax in lieu of this that would go directly towards creating affordable housing, we would have had more success. Cities need to be forced to make housing, there needs to be urgency. Our vacancies in the CoV are far below normal cities and thats one huge cause behind our rent+price increases. The VCC has sat on its ass for way too long while watching the world around them densify as they try to preserve their entrenched bureaucratic nightmare development process. We're talking about years to create plans for development in the middle of a crisis. A crisis demands urgency. If the CoV was in charge of hurricane relief it would take us two years to implement it.


PS: In terms of numbers there are around 330,000 dwellings in the CoV, so 2% increase a year is 6,600. Stewart campaigned on 85,000 over 10 years which is more than this. So 2% a year isn't bad and is doable. I doubt Stewart's going to get 85,000 though as most of this relied on private construction.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

Asking if you want prices to fall though is like saying you want food to be cheaper. We can't just tell stores to sell food for cheaper. Venezuela did that, store shelves became empty, and food prices are now higher than they would have been as its all black market and many people starved. Sure some people got food for cheap, price fixing is a quick solution that is awful long term.

You have a real knack for coming up with the worst analogies.

Property has crashed here before (mid 80s) and will again, though maybe not to the same levels. Vancouver is a relatively volatile market in a stable country like Canada.

[WarrenC12]

Just another day for the BC Liberals...

https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/01/30/R...an-TimberWest/

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

..Let me repeat this. The BC Liberals economic success was allowing global money to flow into BC. Homeowners which are a majority of the province immediately saw home equity gains. Has the autonomy of our government been reduced? Yes. Was this money born from corruption and unethical sources? Some of it. I am not saying this is ethical or the right thing we should be doing we are sort of bound to this reliance now.

Guess what? Globalization results in unfettered movement of people and capital. You can limit the inflow of capital but risk losing investment and trade. Furthermore you would have to plead with the Federal government to halt immigration. This would undoubtedly cause the housing market to tank and BC much like the Western world has no other industry to provide jobs and growth. BC goes against the grain...some other province/country will gladly open their doors.

No joke. BC has tourism and real estate as primary industries. This results in the majority of seasonal + permanent full time jobs.

I am critical of the BC Liberals. Can see all the wrong they did. Can see how the media outlets such as CTV and Global BC has become a powerful tool of the Liberals (Keith Baldry/Vaughn Palmer). Ideally, I wish we could re-align all parties and have 3 main parties that reflect the voters wishes in the province... with a true centrist party. For most voters, the BC Liberals reflect their best interests.

You sell BC's economy short when you say all we've got going for us is peddling real estate. Out of all those new towers going in downtown, what percentage of floorspace is for tenants do you think are involved in real estate? Fairly small I'd bet.

Ask yourself again who has better helped the middle class - the BC Liberals with their toll bridges and MSP premiums, or the NDP who got rid of them? And I see today we have yet another former BC Liberal cabinet minister fighting to stay out of the courts:

...The suit filed in the B.C. Supreme Court alleges that the defendants — TimberWest Forest Corp., two associated companies and three senior TimberWest officials, including former CEO Paul McElligott — deliberately drove Ted LeRoy Trucking Ltd., a major contractor for TimberWest, into bankruptcy. The case alleges TimberWest wanted to get out of contracts with the company.

The plaintiffs want Coleman to testify because documents suggest he helped TimberWest, which was then publicly traded and having financial trouble, find a buyer. At the time Coleman was the province’s forest minister. TimberWest’s donations to the BC Liberals included $44,685 in 2007, $14,738 in 2008 and $60,988 in 2009...
https://thetyee.ca/News/2019/01/30/R...an-TimberWest/

I would say to even the most ardent BC Liberal supporter: they need four years out of power to be cleansed of the taint of corruption.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I would say to even the most ardent BC Liberal supporter: they need four years out of power to be cleansed of the taint of corruption.

I'm not disagreeing. I do hope the Liberals lose in Nanaimo tonight. They need a "reset" and to get new blood in there. Wilkinson is just such an unlikable person....

[logicbomb]

BC Liberals take a sizable lead.

edit: Lead is growing!

[DoubleK]

Ugh BC. You totally disappoint me.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Ugh BC. You totally disappoint me.

Yeah NDP has taken a lead now. Seems like all the BC Green voters went to the Liberals and NDP again, though with a higher number going to the NDP.