Calgary Construction XXVI

[jc_yyc_ca]

You can debate it all you want, but the bottom line is that the word 'inner' is used in reference to a location. Inner city simply means the inner part of a city, and folks it doesn't get any simpler than that.

Originally Posted by Bad Grizzly

The word inner-city, is a term, just because it has the word “inner”in it doesn’t mean it’s entirely about a location. Anyone who doesn’t understand the negative connotation to inner-city, has been in a cave for the last 50 years.

Originally Posted by suburbia

Inner Sprawl as opposed to Inner City. There is no such thing as Inner City Sprawl, because Inner City should not have sprawl in it.

Calgary is not a world city that can manipulate globally accepted terms such as Inner City. And including areas of sprawl in Inner City is just so ridiculous.

Originally Posted by suburbia

I don't consider Falconridge or Erin Woods really to be high density. I would say that you would have a point with Forest Lawn, particularly given the Beltline and Forest Lawn are #1 / #2 on the police prostitution rankings.

At best, I think a small portion of Sunnyside is true inner city, and the southern half of Bridgeland. Heck, the Sunnyside NIMBYs defend having a curling rink and associated parking lot. That's not inner city, that's inner sprawl. There is no way that curling rink fits with the concept of inner city. The Beltline is really the gold standard (apologies for the oxymoron) when it comes to inner city and what the term inner city means in the rest of the world.

[dg66]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

You can debate it all you want, but the bottom line is that the word 'inner' is used in reference to a location. Inner city simply means the inner part of a city, and folks it doesn't get any simpler than that.

Nope not true at all, just because the word inner is used doesn't mean it 100% geographical. Here's are some dictionary samples.

Here are some dictionary excerpts. I won't list them all as they all say the same thing.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inner%20city
TOP DEFINITION
inner city
A term used in the United States referring to a place in a large city that is mostly populated by poor minorities. It has nothing to do with the actual inner part of a city, and generally refers to a wedge-shaped area within the city limits that separates the downtown area from the suburbs, such as the Bronx in NYC, the South and West Sides of Chicago, Dorchester and Roxbury in Boston, and South Central Los Angeles.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inner%20city
the usually older, poorer, and more densely populated central section of a city

And if you don't believe those, watch this video.
• Video Link

[Suburgatory]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I don't consider Falconridge or Erin Woods really to be high density. I would say that you would have a point with Forest Lawn, particularly given the Beltline and Forest Lawn are #1 / #2 on the police prostitution rankings.

At best, I think a small portion of Sunnyside is true inner city, and the southern half of Bridgeland. Heck, the Sunnyside NIMBYs defend having a curling rink and associated parking lot. That's not inner city, that's inner sprawl. There is no way that curling rink fits with the concept of inner city. The Beltline is really the gold standard (apologies for the oxymoron) when it comes to inner city and what the term inner city means in the rest of the world.

What the heck are you on about.

Inner. Location. The manhole cover located at the intersection of 17th Avenue and 14th street is located in the inner city. It doesn’t describe the quality or density or anything you think it does. Look up “inner” in the dictionary.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Suburgatory

Inner. Location. The manhole cover located at the intersection of 17th Avenue and 14th street is located in the inner city. It doesn’t describe the quality or density or anything you think it does. Look up “inner” in the dictionary.

We're not talking about the generic word "inner" rather are talking about the technical term "inner city". You may have missed the actual references provided earlier. Please review the synopsis below.

Originally Posted by Bad Grizzly

These are definitely the typical definitions of what inner city is. The definitions sound like they are describing a ghetto, but in many cases the two go hand in hand.

Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_city
Quote:
The term "inner city" has been used as a euphemism for lower-income residential districts in the city center and nearby areas.
Dictionary - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/inner-city
Quote:
an older part of a city, densely populated and usually deteriorating, inhabited mainly by poor, often minority, groups.
Collins English Dictionary
Quote:
the parts of a city in or near its centre, esp when they are associated with poverty, unemployment, substandard housing, etc
New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, 3rd Edition
Quote:
A general term for impoverished areas of large cities. The inner city is characterized by minimal educational opportunities, high unemployment and crime rates, broken families, and inadequate housing. ( See ghettos.)
Dictionary - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ghettos
Quote:
a section of a city, especially a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Tobyoby

It has nothing to do with density.

I've provided full references of inner city, which all refer to density. If you have issues with those references, please take it up with the international publishers and academics who have made density a part of what inner city means globally.

[milomilo]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

There's been some pretty damn stupid discussions in the dustbin of SSP, the Calgary construction thread, but this one has to take the cake. The inner city is the innermost part of a city. It doesn't require reference to a wikipedia page, it's plain English.

[suburbia]

This article has some great before and after pictures of parts Calgary / process of cleaning up various derelict areas of the inner city

How has the city changed since 2009? Calgary takes the #10YearChallenge
https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2019/01/...9-calgary-takes-the-10yearchallenge.html

It is a very positive article, which is great to read about our city.

[suburbia]

As we have recently discussed the major issues around drug abuse and needles all around the Beltline, posting this positive news on the topic.

Calgary Alpha House rolls out government-funded needle response team
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-alpha...nt-funded-needle-response-team-1.4258485

“We had a pilot project in the summertime where we were doing a proactive outreach in the community,” explained Adam Melnyk, outreach manager at Calgary Alpha House. “We started to come across needles while we were out in the community and we thought maybe we should keep track of that - where we were picking them up, how many, and focus on that as a public safety concern.”

I think the suggestions of some that there are no needles in the Beltline have been dis-proven repeatedly. That's the first step I understand in the AA process - acceptance.

“It’s definitely been eye-opening to get a firsthand visual of how prevalent the needles are in our community,” said Gruggen. “It’s been nice to make an impact but when you go back and the needles are consistently there, it really shows you that there’s a need to make this impact. We really have to do something about it.”

“As a community, we really need to take the initiative to tackle this crisis. There’s a lot of needle use and a lot of people who need help. We can all do our part to chip in.”

#InnerCity

[X_ting_on]

Once again you're wrong. The definition for inner city is an American term, it had nothing to do with the rest of the world. Do we live in the U.S.A? Last time I checked we don't.

In Singapore or China the term inner city simply means the inner part of a city - which amazingly enough also happens to match the description of the word. Here in Calgary, like the rest of the world, inner city means the inner part of the city.

Originally Posted by suburbia

Inner Sprawl as opposed to Inner City. There is no such thing as Inner City Sprawl, because Inner City should not have sprawl in it.

Calgary is not a world city that can manipulate globally accepted terms such as Inner City. And including areas of sprawl in Inner City is just so ridiculous.

Originally Posted by suburbia

I've provided full references of inner city, which all refer to density. If you have issues with those references, please take it up with the international publishers and academics who have made density a part of what inner city means globally.

Thank you for proving my argument. It's an American phrase that applies to American cities, where unfortunately the inner cities have those issues.

Originally Posted by dg66

Nope not true at all, just because the word inner is used doesn't mean it 100% geographical. Here's are some dictionary samples.

Here are some dictionary excerpts. I won't list them all as they all say the same thing.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inner%20city
TOP DEFINITION
inner city
A term used in the United States referring to a place in a large city that is mostly populated by poor minorities. It has nothing to do with the actual inner part of a city, and generally refers to a wedge-shaped area within the city limits that separates the downtown area from the suburbs, such as the Bronx in NYC, the South and West Sides of Chicago, Dorchester and Roxbury in Boston, and South Central Los Angeles.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inner%20city
the usually older, poorer, and more densely populated central section of a city

And if you don't believe those, watch this video.
• Video Link

[X_ting_on]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If you're going to add to a conversation try using graphics someone can read without having to use a magnifying glass. Also state your point.

Originally Posted by Littlechilds

yeah, pretty silly conversation, so why not just add to it right?
Seems some think this...






Same with this one...



In the end, does it matter?

[dg66]

As so many of the definitions state. The term is a euphemism not a literal term. Nowhere in any of the definitions does they refer to it as a literal term.

In one of the definitions it points to cities in the UK, so it's not just an American term.

Originally Posted by Suburgatory

What the heck are you on about.

Inner. Location. The manhole cover located at the intersection of 17th Avenue and 14th street is located in the inner city. It doesn’t describe the quality or density or anything you think it does. Look up “inner” in the dictionary.

Originally Posted by X_ting_on

Once again you're wrong. The definition for inner city is an American term, it had nothing to do with the rest of the world. Do we live in the U.S.A? Last time I checked we don't.

In Singapore or China the term inner city simply means the inner part of a city - which amazingly enough also happens to match the description of the word. Here in Calgary, like the rest of the world, inner city means the inner part of the city.




Thank you for proving my argument. It's an American phrase that applies to American cities, where unfortunately the inner cities have those issues.

[dg66]

Apparently it does require Wikipedia or a dictionary as some people can't seem to grasp the difference between a literal translation and a coined phrase or euphemism. You might want to look up 'euphemism' in the dictionary.

Originally Posted by milomilo

via Imgflip Meme Generator

There's been some pretty damn stupid discussions in the dustbin of SSP, the Calgary construction thread, but this one has to take the cake. The inner city is the innermost part of a city. It doesn't require reference to a wikipedia page, it's plain English.

For your reference.

Cauliflower Ears shown in the picture below do not actually contain cauliflower.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by X_ting_on

Once again you're wrong. The definition for inner city is an American term, it had nothing to do with the rest of the world. Do we live in the U.S.A? Last time I checked we don't.

Good point. That's why we needed the new term "Inner Sprawl"

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Littlechilds

Excellent graphic Littlechilds. The same folks who are advocating for the far western reaches of Bowness to be included in Inner City are also the ones that are claiming the "Inner" within context of the term "Inner City" means closest to the centre. It seems to accommodate Bowness because it is largely dilapidated, and nothing to do with proximity to the core. Given the average of 1K sf development per 6K sf lot (plus portion of back alley) in Bowness, I'd consider it a classic example of "Inner Sprawl". It is not "Inner City" at multiple levels.

[Western Spaghetti]

Whether the term inner city means geographical location or it's a term to describe a low income, densely populated area makes no difference in Calgary's case is both situations apply. While Calgary's inner city may bot be as bad as some of the American inner city areas, it's still the ghetto of the city, in particular the Beltline. The visions you see of American inner cities where neighborhoods with squalid apartments exist, and prostitutes and junkies roam and streets and crimes are routinely committed, hold true for downtown and the Beltline. Mention homeless people, prostitutes, needles, crime, public urination and vomiting and the first place people think of is downtown and the Beltline. Yeah those things exist in smatterings throughout the city, but mostly in the core.

[Western Spaghetti]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Excellent graphic Littlechilds. The same folks who are advocating for the far western reaches of Bowness to be included in Inner City are also the ones that are claiming the "Inner" within context of the term "Inner City" means closest to the centre. It seems to accommodate Bowness because it is largely dilapidated, and nothing to do with proximity to the core. Given the average of 1K sf development per 6K sf lot (plus portion of back alley) in Bowness, I'd consider it a classic example of "Inner Sprawl". It is not "Inner City" at multiple levels.

Exactly. That graphic also pulls in Forest Lawn and Radisson, a couple more areas that could easily fit the inner city definition, but aren't geographically located in the center of the city.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Western Spaghetti

Whether the term inner city means geographical location or it's a term to describe a low income, densely populated area makes no difference in Calgary's case is both situations apply.

I'm largely in agreement with you, but this is precisely why I was suggesting breaking it out into two terms - though I've never pointed to low income in particular.

Inner city, I'm suggesting, should need to include high density. Other areas that are dilapidated but are particularly low density, should be split out from Inner city and termed Inner sprawl.

The reason I'm suggesting the above is that people, including forumers here, apply blanket statements, suggesting all Inner city is dense, and that sprawl is a result of what is referred to as suburbs. The worst offenders of sprawl / low intensity development is actually within what currently people call inner city, and when you point that out, people will provide the Beltline as an example - which makes no sense. When crime and drug use issues are highlighted in the inner city, people will point out the large lots of Mount Royal and say there are no needles there.

So let us be more precise. Beltline (plus a select additional group) are absolutely traditional inner city, with high density, and when we say inner city, that's what we should be talking about.

Many of the other areas are actually inner sprawl. When we accept this reality, we can thoughtfully and intelligently look at that inner sprawl and think through specific ways to intensify development.

At a foundational level, I'm not meaning to be offensive with this, rather, am trying to be precise, and thus wanting to create a base from which we can further improve the city. We need to call a spade a spade.

[Deepstar]

Some people may find the conversation interesting, if you two aren't interested in the conversation don't whine and moan about, and above all don't make yourselves look dumb by adding to it.

Originally Posted by milomilo

There's been some pretty damn stupid discussions in the dustbin of SSP, the Calgary construction thread, but this one has to take the cake. The inner city is the innermost part of a city. It doesn't require reference to a wikipedia page, it's plain English.

Originally Posted by Littlechilds

yeah, pretty silly conversation, so why not just add to it right?
Seems some think this...

[Deepstar]

Did you even think about this before posting? Mount Royal, Cliff Bungalow, Sunnyside, Hillhurt, Rosedale, Crescent Heights Mount Pleasant, etc... are all in those supposed inner city ghetto areas. Some of the nicest, most expensive neighborhoods in the city. Not to mention that over 10,000 new residential units have been built in the Beltline since 2000. Those units are new than 80% of the rest of the dwellings in the city.

Originally Posted by Western Spaghetti

Whether the term inner city means geographical location or it's a term to describe a low income, densely populated area makes no difference in Calgary's case is both situations apply. While Calgary's inner city may bot be as bad as some of the American inner city areas, it's still the ghetto of the city, in particular the Beltline. The visions you see of American inner cities where neighborhoods with squalid apartments exist, and prostitutes and junkies roam and streets and crimes are routinely committed, hold true for downtown and the Beltline. Mention homeless people, prostitutes, needles, crime, public urination and vomiting and the first place people think of is downtown and the Beltline. Yeah those things exist in smatterings throughout the city, but mostly in the core.

[Suburgatory]

Originally Posted by suburbia

We're not talking about the generic word "inner" rather are talking about the technical term "inner city". You may have missed the actual references provided earlier. Please review the synopsis below.

Put your damn urban dictionary away.

Adjective: a word or phrase naming an attribute, added to or grammatically related to a noun to modify or describe it.

Noun: a word (other than a pronoun) used to identify any of a class of people, places, or things

Lets try it.

Adjective: red (of a color at the end of the spectrum next to orange and opposite violet, as of blood, fire, or rubies)

Noun: car (a road vehicle, typically with four wheels, powered by an internal combustion engine and able to carry a small number of people)

red car

Ok, now on to level 2.

Adjective: inner (situated inside or further in; internal)

Noun: city (a large town)

inner city