YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

One additional column doesn't make that much of a difference. It's what is written in the columns. The reason YUL has 1 more column is because it has more destinations, and writing the names of those destinations takes up more space. Doesn't mean it has more frequencies.

I'm sure if you count the overall frequencies, YVR's is larger, and was far larger back then than just 29 weekly frequencies (1345-1316). That is all I am trying to say.

(P.S. nname, could you reduce the size of those timetables.....)

I counted about 166 dailies from YUL, compared to 172 for YVR. And this only include anything that's "Daily" or "x...", so it's in favor of YUL since all destination with 1, 2 or 3 weekly not counted.

And this is before AC dumped it's entire BEH network of about 10 dailies. But even now AC still include those flights (AC65xx operated by CMA) as part of their "Express" network in the navi timetable. Should I include that total to the S19 stat then?

Shrink... I don't have an image editor here.. the most I can do is use a spoiler tag.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Back in 2009 YVR had about 11-12 widebodies per day... Summer 2019 will be over 23... so about double.

The timetable I posted was actually from July 2010. Close enough to "10 years ago" I suppose.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

I counted about 166 dailies from YUL, compared to 172 for YVR. And this only include anything that's "Daily" or "x...", so it's in favor of YUL since all destination with 1, 2 or 3 weekly not counted.

Not as easy as that. A lot of flights are duplicate on the timetable. (Ex. Sched Before aug 7/sched after August 7). You can't count both of those, as it will skew the numbers, and YUL has more of those than YVR.

Besides, here is an official document with numbers from 2006.

2006 numbers. (excluding Jazz)

Source: https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/aircanada/portal/documents/PDF/en/annual-report/2006_AIF.pdf

page. 20

AC YYZ daily departures: 182 - 1274 departures/week
AC YVR daily departures: 65 - 455 departures/week
AC YUL daily departures: 58 - 406 departures/week

Spread is 49 weekly

2019 numbers (excluding Express)

source: nname's document

YYZ - 1700 departures/week
YVR - 615 departures/week
YUL - 601 departures/week

Spread is 14 weekly.

YUL is catching up to YVR.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Not as easy as that. A lot of flights are duplicate on the timetable. (Ex. Sched Before aug 7/sched after August 7). You can't count both of those, as it will skew the numbers, and YUL has more of those than YVR.

I didn't. I paid close attention to the ones with start/end date and make sure I didn't overcounting them.

If the "catching up" you stated meant to be the 5x daily gain on mainline frequency, then it all happened in the past 3 weeks I supposed, when AC moved 2x daily YUL-DEN and 3x daily YUL-LGA from express to mainline.

Daily on express CR9 or mainline E90 really make that much of a difference??

[Denscity]

He seems really sensitive representing an airport with less passengers than a smaller city's.

#punchingunderit'sweight

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

The timetable I posted was actually from July 2010. Close enough to "10 years ago" I suppose.

Even better then... that growth is over 9 years only.

You’re explanations are quite clear too.... YVR is the solid second largest base for mainline with significant widebodies ops.

Widebodies make up close to 27% of YVR’s mainline ops (the highest % of all bases) compared to about 20% for YYZ.

[thenoflyzone]

....and 25% for YUL.

But why are you singling out mainline? A widebody is a widebody, mainline, or Rouge. Last I checked, Rouge is an integral part of Air Canada, and should be included in any analysis, especially if comparing with YYZ or YUL. Maybe it's because you dont want to show the real numbers !

AC mainline/Rouge widebody % per total ops:

YYZ 24.29%
YUL 28.1%
YVR 26.17%

Originally Posted by Denscity

He seems really sensitive representing an airport with less passengers than a smaller city's.

#punchingunderit'sweight

Let me correct that for you...

#punchingaboveit'sweight

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

If the "catching up" you stated meant to be the 5x daily gain on mainline frequency, then it all happened in the past 3 weeks I supposed, when AC moved 2x daily YUL-DEN and 3x daily YUL-LGA from express to mainline.

Daily on express CR9 or mainline E90 really make that much of a difference??

YUL-DEN has been E190 on and off since it resumed in 2016. It's nothing new.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...umes-selected-montreal-us-routes-in-s16/

[Johnny Aussie]

Looking at nname’s spreadsheet again... so much info in these stats....

....this time focusing on express.

YVR has become the king of CR9 ops and DH4 ops... 2 of the 3 largest types of Express equipment.

Not long ago YYC had many more CR9 flights but in recent years a lot of that has flowed further west.

And in the 50 seaters and below category YVR will only see 221 weekly ops on 50 seaters. YVR sees nothing smaller than 50 seaters.

Of Express bases YVR is 70% 76-78 seaters.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by BennyG102

Whats the Frequency number of flights for Summer 2019 for WestJet at Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto ,Edmonton, Halifax, Ottawa, Winnipeg and Montreal? Calgary most likely leads the way for WestJet S19 flight frequency as 787-9 Dreamliner Seasonal International flights to Europe Dublin, Paris and London and Toronto 2nd- also with new, 3 times weekly- seasonal service to Barcelona Spain.

Yeah YYC the busiest I am sure. They’ve bumped up frequencies and capacity on a lot of routes. 14 weekly 789s to Europe being added next summer. Daily LGW on the 763 being replaced by the 789.

In order it would be YYC, YYZ, YVR, YEG.... then? Who knows.

[nname]

Originally Posted by BennyG102

Whats the Frequency number of flights for Summer 2019 for WestJet at Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto ,Edmonton, Halifax, Ottawa, Winnipeg and Montreal? Calgary most likely leads the way for WestJet S19 flight frequency as 787-9 Dreamliner Seasonal International flights to Europe Dublin, Paris and London and Toronto 2nd- also with new, 3 times weekly- seasonal service to Barcelona Spain.

WestJet does not have any searchable or printed timetable, so collecting stats is quite hard.

The only Canadian airlines that provide such feature are Air Canada, Transat, and Flair.

[trofirhen]

IMO, it is great once again to have two major airlines in Canada, and nice to see "the competition" growing so fast, and so well. (I miss the Canadian Airlines Canada goose, but that's life)
If Westjet does keep on growing, and ultimately joins the "big league," so to speak, I wonder if it will join an alliance. CA was One World. I wonder what Westjet might join.
It needs to get larger of course, but with an extensive North American coverage, plus overseas scheduled flights on track for Asia and South America, it might qualify to join the "club."
Again, which alliance might it join, I wonder. This growth news it great news. I applaud Westjet for growing so fast and reaching the size it is. Not yet "big," but getting up there.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by BennyG102

WestJet 1st delivery of the 787 Dreamliner plane ✈️ ,WS8968 expected to depart Everett,United States 3pm and arrival into Calgary, Canada around 5:15pm.

Arrival after sunset in the dark. Doesn't matter anyway, it's snowing here today so viewing would be poor anyhow.

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

IMO, it is great once again to have two major airlines in Canada, and nice to see "the competition" growing so fast, and so well. (I miss the Canadian Airlines Canada goose, but that's life)
If Westjet does keep on growing, and ultimately joins the "big league," so to speak, I wonder if it will join an alliance. CA was One World. I wonder what Westjet might join.
It needs to get larger of course, but with an extensive North American coverage, plus overseas scheduled flights on track for Asia and South America, it might qualify to join the "club."
Again, which alliance might it join, I wonder. This growth news it great news. I applaud Westjet for growing so fast and reaching the size it is. Not yet "big," but getting up there.

WestJet has strong relationships with Delta, Air France, KLM.

WestJet use to have relationships with American and British Airways that have come to an end.

WestJet aircraft clearly likes hanging out with the Skyteam crowd and they appear to be ignoring the Oneworld crowd, except Qantas. Not certain they will join an alliance but if they did it is clear which one it would be.

[zahav]

I actually did a one day comparison for Westjet ops. I used Sunday August 11, as it tends to be a busy day (peak summer), but the figures can be extrapolated more or less for weekly (there is variation ie. YYZ has a ton of once a week sun destination flying even in the summer, but they are literally just one Saturday departure a week and that's it). So the list below is a good indication of the volume of flights and split between mainline and Encore/link, and is in descending order:

YYC: 90 daily mainline, 45 Encore, and 11 Link - 146 total
YYZ: 85 daily mainline, 42 Encore - 127 total
YVR: 57 daily mainline, 23 Encore - 80 total
YEG: 24 daily mainline, 30 Encore - 54 total
YHZ: 17 daily mainline, 10 Encore - 27 total
YWG: 22 daily mainline, 4 Encore - 26 total
YUL: 8 daily mainline, 15 Encore - 23 total

Digging further, there is a reason YYC, YYZ, and YVR are hubs. They not only have more departures, but have a large amount of WS connecting traffic, service to the most destinations and have strong domestic, transborder, and international ops. They all have widebody service too. Further, they have codeshare partners who provide a lot of connecting traffic of their own into WS's network, which is a key definition of a hub.

YEG is a very strong focus city, and should be in a category other than paired with YHZ and YWG, which it currently is, but I guess there is no middle category. YWG barely fits the focus city criteria IMO, it reaslly isn'y. IMO even YHZ only is considered a focus city because it has CDG, DUB, GLA, and LGW service (all on 737s though, no widebodies) so even though daily flights are comparable to YWG and even YUL, the make-up of their route network helps it.

[SpongeG]

New federal agreements allow YVR to expand route options in 6 countries

Kenneth Chan Jan 17, 2019

Vancouver International Airport and other Canadian airports can potentially benefit from an expanded global reach, due to new and expanded air transport agreements finalized between the Canadian federal government and six other countries.

In a release, the federal government has concluded agreements with St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Algeria, Qatar, Jordan, Côte-d’Ivoire, and Mongolia.

...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canada-federal-agreements-airlines-january-2019

[nname]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

New federal agreements allow YVR to expand route options in 6 countries

Not really have anything useful for YVR... I mean, YVR-ULN???

[zahav]

Ya not one of those is valuable. Even on a Canada wide scale they aren't that helpful, AFAIK the routes between YUL and Jordan, Qatar, and Algeria were not hindered by this, I don't think it will change much in terms of service. Really the only countries I could see benefiting from a written bilaterals are Singapore, UAE, and Turkey

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by zahav

I actually did a one day comparison for Westjet ops.

YYC: 90 daily mainline, 45 Encore, and 11 Link - 146 total
YYZ: 85 daily mainline, 42 Encore - 127 total
YVR: 57 daily mainline, 23 Encore - 80 total
YEG: 24 daily mainline, 30 Encore - 54 total
YHZ: 17 daily mainline, 10 Encore - 27 total
YWG: 22 daily mainline, 4 Encore - 26 total
YUL: 8 daily mainline, 15 Encore - 23 total

Excellent work!

You forgot YLW! It’s a bigger base than YHZ, YWG and YUL with about 29-30 daily including about 8 daily mainline.

YVR has the highest % of mainline of the largest bases (71%).

YEG used to be a larger base than YVR but they've lost quite a lot of mainline over the last few years. They are closer to 28 mainline though and total ops of about 62 daily including about 5 daily Swoop.... mainline is down to only about 45% of total ops.

And over half of YUL flights are a shuttle to YYZ.

[SpongeG]

wouldn't you like to see this at YVR? Melbourne I saw some