Place des Peuples [61-77 rue Laurier] | 200m & ?m | 55 & 35 fl | Cancelled

[jitterbug]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Most of Hull is composed of 100 year old shacks with crappy vinyl siding, but a few spots, very few, have nice brick or stone buildings such as along the Ruisseau de la Brasserie, old Hull and the Quartier du Musée. Because we have so little, it's worth saving.

I don't just oppose this because its out of scale with the heritage neighborhood to the north, but it would also overshadow the Museum of Civilization and Parliament. On the museum front,the shear size of the proposal will trample the museum's place of honour in the area. The design of the podium, which is essentially a replica of the museum, will take away its uniqueness. The design of the towers, which is tacky as all hell, will completely distract people from the architectural jewles of the past. The height f the buildings will also ruin the vistas of Parliament from many angles. Height restrictions should not only cover Ottawa's traditional downtown, but also parts of Hull.

Here are some better spots for these buildings, with I would hope something resembling the initial design released to the public:

- Maisonneuve and Allumettière;
- Robert Guertin Arena site;
- Behind Terraces de la Chaudière;

Anyone of those sites would still allow for a hotel, observatory and would attract people deeper into Hull instead of staying on the periphery, which is the case today and in the future if these towers are built at the proposed site.

That said, I support a heritage designation for the Quartier, but I believe that 2 or 3 floors is almost as inappropriate for this particular parcel of land as the current proposal. I would support up to 12 floors with appropriate set-backs on all sides.

Well said, and worth reposting. I agree with everything you say here.
(For what it's worth, I don't see this proposal going ahead now, and likely never. I believe common sense will prevail.)

[daud]

Originally Posted by jitterbug

Well said, and worth reposting. I agree with everything you say here.
(For what it's worth, I don't see this proposal going ahead now, and likely never. I believe common sense will prevail.)

i do agree that this project likely won't go ahead.

Its important to see this for what it is. Like the proposal or not, Brigil presented a fairly bold vision for development and change in Gatineau and council will likely choose to reject that-narrowly. Each player can live with the results.

Gatineau will lose tax dollars, development dollars, hotel rooms, meeting and convention business and a tourist site of interest. Tourists will continue to flock to the museum then jump right onto the Alexandria bridge back into Ottawa.

But they will protect a neighbourhood and there is lots they can do to enhance its appeal. If they do nothing with this "heritage status" except leave things as they are, then I think they lose out. If they create favourable zoning for more restaurants and other commercial uses, I think that would go a long way to making it more of a neighbourhood worthy of status and protection.

I'm not heavily invested in this other than liking the proposal and thinking its a smart project for Gatineau, financially and strategically. I'm ok with protecting the neighbourhood. One only has to look at all those Lost Ottawa photos to see what used to be on this side of the river and sadly, what sometimes has replaced it.

[lrt's friend]

I still consider the views from Hull towards the Parliament buildings and downtown in general are best remaining views that we have including the highway views coming from the north and northeast. The views from the south side have all long been ruined.


I still think this project will take away from Parliament's grandeur.

[J.OT13]

Vote on heritage designation hasn't happened yet, but we have an update.

Council started with voting to remove a few parcels of land from the possible heritage designation.

- 115 Champlain removed from designation vote. That's a parking lot next to Place du Portage phase I;
- 61 Laurier, on the west end of the Brigil site where the sports museum is situated, has been removed;
- Councillor Blondin tried to convince his colleagues to remove the St-Joseph Catholic School parking lot (part of the Brigil project, even though the school refuses to sell in order to protect the area), but council voted him down;
- Council kept all other parcels as part of the possible designation.

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/gatin...moniale-9555fc88f2693f27eb2ffbd8eb6ad0cd

Based on these amendments, it looks like the heritage designation will pass.

[J.OT13]

It's done. Heritage protection passes 12-7. Two parcels excluded as per my post above.

Desjardins tried to beg council "S’il vous plaît donner moi la chance de faire le plus beau projet". You had three years, presented the same rotation of 2 projects, refused to make changes to answer citizens' concerns, pushed for the City to give the thumbs up before even filing the application, don't even own all the land needed because the College refuses to sell. Times up!

[Soi-Fon]

Why wouldn't he make those in the Lebreton flats? But it's still a waste of nice space. Instead, we'll make a couple of 3 stories office buildings fully cladded in bricks that will go vacants for years.

[J.OT13]

He's threatened to built in at LeBreton Flats. Not sure if that threat was directed at Gatineau or Ottawa .

Like I stated earlier, the one parcel actually owned by Brigil on the corner of Laurier and Papineau was exempt from the designation, so we could see a tower similar to what was approved across the street at Four Points. And I'm sure they won't limit the rest of land along Laurier to three floors. They might allow 6 to 12 (purely speculation).

[rocketphish]

Gatineau council votes down $400M development with heritage designation for Museum District

Taylor Blewett, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: August 28, 2018



In front of a room packed to the brim with members of the public, Gatineau city council passed a heritage designation for the city’s downtown Museum District late Tuesday night and in so doing blocked the development of controversial highrise complex proposed for the area.

The 12-7 vote concluded months of uncertainty regarding the future of a historical neighbourhood near the Canadian Museum of History between Laurier and Victoria streets and Maisonneuve and Des Allumettières boulevards.

It followed nearly three hours of public statements of support for and opposition to the heritage designation, including one from Brigil president Gilles Desjardins who saw his dream development, Place des Peuples, fall apart with council’s subsequent vote.

The Ottawa-Gatineau developer wanted to build a 35- and 55-storey highrise complex on rue Laurier — directly across from history museum — to the chagrin of some locals and fervent approval from others.

The passage of the heritage designation means the mega-project will not be able to proceed as Brigil had envisioned.

The developer first presented its plan for the $400-million, mixed-use Places des Peuples towers in 2015. Desjardins envisioned condos, hotel rooms and commercial and public spaces comprising an “iconic project” designed to draw Gatinois and tourists to the downtown Museum District.

Area residents and heritage advocates working to preserve the historical neighbourhood fiercely opposed the Place des Peuples development since its unveiling. In May, Cédric Tessier, city councillor for the area, tabled a motion that initiated the official heritage designation process for a large swath of the Museum District, including the section of rue Laurier where Brigil was looking to build.

Brigil came out in support of the designation provided it would be “innovative, modern, and flexible,” according to a statement published in May, and allow for the development of Place des Peuples and other new builds while protecting some of the neighbourhood’s valuable heritage elements. If that couldn’t be granted, they asked that its perimeter exclude the planned site for Place des Peuples on rue Laurier. Neither of those wishes was granted Tuesday night.

While council adjusted the proposed heritage district’s boundaries Tuesday afternoon, it was decided that only two lots — at 61 rue Laurier and 115 rue Champlain — would be bumped outside its perimeter. Brigil planned to build Place des Peuples between 61 and 77 rue Laurier, which meant, according to Tessier, “it can’t go on” as proposed, as the other lots remain within the heritage district’s borders and will be subject to considerable protection.

Tessier said Brigil could still build something at 61 rue Laurier, but it would have to apply for a zoning change if the company wanted to go higher than three storeys on the single lot.

Asked last week if the company would develop Place des Peuples elsewhere in Gatineau if the heritage designation took the Museum District off the table, Yves Ducharme, special adviser for Brigil, posed a question in return.

“Let’s say you’re in love with a guy named John. And I say, ‘You are able to be in love, but it’s not with John that you’re going to go out with, it’s Mark.’ What would be your answer?

“The best location for investing $400 million is right in front of the museum,” he concluded.

Brigil estimated that Place des Peuples would generate $8 million in tax revenue for the city on an annual basis, and generate 1,000 new jobs in the area.

In an interview following the council vote, Ducharme said it marked the end of Place des Peuples “for tonight,” adding that Brigil was “very patient.” Last week, he voiced his own belief that the designation wouldn’t stand the test of time.

The heritage designation will extend considerable protection from development to the Museum District and the dozens of historic buildings it contains, many of which date back to the late 1800s. Buildings inside the district can still be demolished, renovated and transformed, and new ones can be built, Tessier explained, but they have to respect the neighbourhood’s heritage characteristics, so a glass highrise complex that caps out at 55 floors won’t fly.

Gatineau mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin voted in favour of the designation.

“There are many, many places in Gatineau where a project like that can be built … not in a heritage neighbourhood,” he said following the council meeting.

“We have about four million people walking on the street every year. On one side we have the history museum, on the other side they have a big part of Gatineau’s history and Gatineau’s identity. We have to value that and we have to invest in it.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...heritage-designation-for-museum-district

[Marshsparrow]

I'm going to have to take a walk in this "heritage area" - must be some rich history, artifacts, burial grounds - is it as splendid as the pyramids? give me a break...

[Horus]

It's a shame that this became an 'all or nothing' proposition. You don't have to go too far from that exact location to find places that could benefit from redevelopment. Just go up Laurier, across des Allumettières for one.

[jitterbug]

Originally Posted by Horus

It's a shame that this became an 'all or nothing' proposition. You don't have to go too far from that exact location to find places that could benefit from redevelopment. Just go up Laurier, across des Allumettières for one.

No one is disputing that the area could use sprucing up, including redeveloping many of the properties. My understanding is that the heritage designation does not prevent that from happening. What it does prevent, however, is indiscriminate development that ignores the fabric of the district, as the Brigil proposal clearly did.

If the goal is to entice foot traffic to cross the street from the Museum of History, a people-friendly ambiance is essential. Think locally-owned shops, restaurants and cafés, galleries, small public squares -- something to rival Ottawa's Byward Market except with a distinct Québecois flavour (like one finds in Old Montreal and Quebec City). Brigil's proposal might've had an observation deck (which is fine for those who think a view from 55 storeys is a big deal -- I don't), but that one attraction is a weak reason to sell your city's soul to a developer seeking to profiteer from the prime location.

Bravo Gatineau council -- but your work is not yet done!

[rocketphish]

Developer takes patient stance after $400-million condo project gets spiked

Bruce Deachman, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: August 29, 2018

Brigil Construction’s plans for a $400-million highrise complex across the street from the Canadian Museum of History in Gatineau was dealt a seemingly fatal blow, but a Brigil spokesman on Wednesday said the company is a very patient one, seeming to hint that it may simply wait for more favourable political winds before developing land on rue Laurier.

“We’re sad,” said Yves Ducharme, special adviser to Brigil president Gilles Desjardins, regarding Gatineau city council’s decision Tuesday night to designate heritage status to much of its Museum District, effectively killing Brigil’s plan to construct two condo/office/hotel/retail towers, one 55 storeys high and the other 35 storeys tall. “So much work over the past five years, and all of the sketches, are tossed aside, and we’ll have to wait for another time.”

Following three hours of public statements both in favour and opposed to the proposed Place des Peuples project, Gatineau council voted 12-7 to adjust the heritage district’s boundaries to include almost all of the real estate encompassed by the project.

“The land is still there,” Ducharme added, “and we have plenty of files and projects to be taken care of on our desk, so time will tell. Like I say, keep calm and carry on.”

Ducharme did not repeat Desjardins’ veiled threats from last fall, suggesting the company might shift more of its work from Gatineau to Ottawa, “to build beautiful things.” At least not exactly.

“There are plenty of towers going up in Ottawa from Brigil,” Ducharme said, “and there will be more to come, that’s for sure.”

But, he added, if a similar 55-storey building does get built by Brigil, it likely won’t be erected elsewhere in Gatineau. “If it has to go up, there’s a strong chance it will go up in Ottawa.”

According to Ducharme, many of the people who have expressed support for the project but not at its proposed site are misguided. “It’s like saying to somebody that the woman you’re in love with, you won’t be able to marry — you’ll have to marry the girl next door.

“No, that doesn’t work. Gilles chose the site, and what made Brigil a success is his ability to find the best locations for the types of buildings he wants to build. It’s location, location, location, and the location for that type of five-star project is right where he said he’d put the building up, and nothing nearby.

“But Gilles is a patient man, and lots of things can happen. Time will tell.”

— With files from Tom Spears and Taylor Blewett

[email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...er-400-million-condo-project-gets-spiked

[Vixx]

Old Hull is begging for some development; it's been crummy and semi-derelict for a very long time. With that being said, yeah this project is just way out of scale and would be one of the most awkward projects relative to its surroundings in the country.

Hopefully something does go forward eventually because the area needs it, but hopefully not something as "pie in the sky" as what this proposal was.

[Jim613]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but just wanted to share an FYI.

The building at Papineau & Laurier (across from the museum of History) does not have the 'Gatineau Sports museum' signage anymore. Back to looking like a Brigil presentation centre. Been that way for a few weeks now

[OTownandDown]

Lol, don't forget that kitty-corner to this development is the very heritage abandoned SAQ warehouse, and the extra-heritage MacDo's.

Don't forget this Gem. Wouldn't want to lose this forever:

https://goo.gl/maps/Da65ikXm9dC2

There is the issue of the heritage parking lot for St. Joseph's College. I remember that being the basis for the first arguments not to develop.

Originally Posted by jitterbug

No one is disputing that the area could use sprucing up, including redeveloping many of the properties. My understanding is that the heritage designation does not prevent that from happening. What it does prevent, however, is indiscriminate development that ignores the fabric of the district, as the Brigil proposal clearly did.

If the goal is to entice foot traffic to cross the street from the Museum of History, a people-friendly ambiance is essential. Think locally-owned shops, restaurants and cafés, galleries, small public squares -- something to rival Ottawa's Byward Market except with a distinct Québecois flavour (like one finds in Old Montreal and Quebec City). Brigil's proposal might've had an observation deck (which is fine for those who think a view from 55 storeys is a big deal -- I don't), but that one attraction is a weak reason to sell your city's soul to a developer seeking to profiteer from the prime location.

Bravo Gatineau council -- but your work is not yet done!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Lol, don't forget that kitty-corner to this development is the very heritage abandoned SAQ warehouse, and the extra-heritage MacDo's.

Don't forget this Gem. Wouldn't want to lose this forever:

https://goo.gl/maps/Da65ikXm9dC2

There is the issue of the heritage parking lot for St. Joseph's College. I remember that being the basis for the first arguments not to develop.

That dépanneur, known to everyone as "la petite épicerie", is much beloved for its semi-famous sandwiches by museum staff, the girls of St-Joseph and public servants in the know who dare to venture that far.

I know grown women who went to St-Joseph who if they happen to be in the area will make a point of stopping there for lunch.

Though I suppose it could be relocated and still make the exact same sandwiches.

[J.OT13]

Now that Gatineau voted against his project, he no longer needs to pretend he cares about the community. The "Musée des sports de Gatineau", who he offered a free space in the former garage on Laurier back in 2017, has until September 15 to vacate the building.

They are now in talks with VMSO hoping to establish the museum in the Olympiques' future home in Gatineau.

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/gatin...menager-0a7e4be92ea58b0311ca5d38b8d7958f

[J.OT13]

I had an idea for the site now that Place des Peuples has been rejected by Council. Desjardins and Brigil was right that the site should be home of a building that will attract people from around the region and abroad. What he was recommending was just way out of scale.

What I would propose is the new Grande Bibliothèque Gatineau has been talking about for years. Something around 4 floors, integrating the façade of at least the old Chez Henri, cafés and restaurants at street level. The new cultural institution could include the Gatineau Sports museum and maybe a history of the Outaouais History. Hull is also missing a larger performance hall (say 1,000-1,500 seats). On the west side of the lot that was excluded from the heritage designation, they could build a 20 storey hotel tower.

The City of Gatineau could either buy the property from Brigil, perform a land swap (say for Guertin, which is much larger but further from the traditional core) or, less likely, work with them.

[danishh]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I had an idea for the site now that Place des Peuples has been rejected by Council. Desjardins and Brigil was right that the site should be home of a building that will attract people from around the region and abroad. What he was recommending was just way out of scale.

What I would propose is the new Grande Bibliothèque Gatineau has been talking about for years. Something around 4 floors, integrating the façade of at least the old Chez Henri, cafés and restaurants at street level. The new cultural institution could include the Gatineau Sports museum and maybe a history of the Outaouais History. Hull is also missing a larger performance hall (say 1,000-1,500 seats). On the west side of the lot that was excluded from the heritage designation, they could build a 20 storey hotel tower.

The City of Gatineau could either buy the property from Brigil, perform a land swap (say for Guertin, which is much larger but further from the traditional core) or, less likely, work with them.

has brigil given any indication they want to dispose of the land?
i'd bet on them just letting this go dormant for 10-15 years and trying again later.

[J.OT13]

They submitted another proposal to the City of Gatineau last spring that would have respected the zoning, though that proposal was not made public. I too think they'll just sit on it until a more developer friendly council is elected.