Surrey City Centre Redevelopment Plans

[Westbased]

With the large amount of concrete high rise product coming to market and already on the market in the area I can see low-rise wood-frame products continuing to sell like hot cakes given the price difference and the time to complete.

Mosaic is launching a new 4-story wood-frame condo project this spring on 140th and 105A Ave. They are also planning a rental building on their site after the condos are complete.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by logan5

Are people now willing to pay a premium to live in Surrey, because developers and the City of Surrey have been trying to ram towers in there for decades now and it hasn't worked all that well. In the 30 years that Skytrain has been in Surrey, there has been very little TOD relative to other municipalities, where development has exploded. Sorry but imo Surrey is going to keep on stagnating for even longer if they keep trying to sell people expensive condo units in an area that offers not a whole lot in return. Forget about towers and build more affordable ground oriented and low rise housing, and purpose built rental apartments. That's how Vancouver built it's great neighbourhoods, and that's how Surrey should do it too.

TBF, Surrey City Central didn't really get a lot of love for a long time, with the city hall not being there, as it should have been, and the crime and homelessness problem in the area.


Edmonds right now probably has a worse TOD. There's even less there except residential towers. Surrey Central has the hospital, the SFU campus, a really nice community centre and library, city hall, and a (not great) mall.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Edmonds right now probably has a worse TOD.

It's explained here:

http://davidpereira.ca/projects/burnabys-town-centres/edmonds-town-centre/
http://davidpereira.ca/projects/burnabys-town-centres/metrotown/

Due to its proximity, Burnaby planners did not want Edmonds to detract from the dominance of Metrotown.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by officedweller

It's explained here:

http://davidpereira.ca/projects/burnabys-town-centres/edmonds-town-centre/
http://davidpereira.ca/projects/burnabys-town-centres/metrotown/

Due to its proximity, Burnaby planners did not want Edmonds to detract from the dominance of Metrotown.

Brentwood is (geographically) close to Metrotown too, and it can still shine on its own.

I'm getting 503 errors with those links.

[officedweller]

Wierd, the links work for me. Try again later.

I think the distinction is that Brentwood and Lougheed are on the other side of the Hwy 1 / central valley frm Metrotown,
and Brentood and Lougheed are separated by a larger east-west distance than Metrotown and Edmonds.

Once you get through to the links, you'll see that Burnaby is divided into 4 quadrants.


http://davidpereira.ca/projects/burnabys-town-centres/edmonds-town-centre/

[Shift]

Originally Posted by logan5

There are low rises, but right now the only thing I see for sale are tower units, with a few townhouse units that are at the base of these towers. I'm far from convinced that KGB is going to get all these towers that Surrey wants. It's too late now though. Developers are buying up all the land with the expectation of high-rises.

Try looking at the City Centre Plan. Large areas of it predominately designated for 4-6 storey density.

Active projects for reference:

https://urbansurrey.com/surrey-city-centre-active-projects/

[Cypherus]

Originally Posted by logan5

Are people now willing to pay a premium to live in Surrey, because developers and the City of Surrey have been trying to ram towers in there for decades now and it hasn't worked all that well. In the 30 years that Skytrain has been in Surrey, there has been very little TOD relative to other municipalities, where development has exploded. Sorry but imo Surrey is going to keep on stagnating for even longer if they keep trying to sell people expensive condo units in an area that offers not a whole lot in return. Forget about towers and build more affordable ground oriented and low rise housing, and purpose built rental apartments. That's how Vancouver built it's great neighbourhoods, and that's how Surrey should do it too.

I don't think prices are at a premium in Surrey when the rest of the region north of the Fraser is far more appreciative in value - especially condos. Indeed prices are on the rise in Surrey, and condos are a big hit right now - but still cheaper than Brentwood and Loughheed town centres as close relatives. Like fredinno mentioned, the demand is there for Surrey, and those amenities will come. People are buying into Surrey's future as the fastest growing city in BC. That is its appeal. Whereas other town centres are banking on building towers around a mall and skytrain stations - and that's it. Metrotown in my opinion has no character - no university, no plaza, no social connectivity, etc.

You are right that Surrey skytrain has been around for 30 years and development is Surrey is only picking up these last few years. There were many economic factors at play that put more focus on north of the Fraser by developers. But things are on the upswing and don't see things slowing down whatsoever.

[rpvan]

Originally Posted by Cypherus

I don't think prices are at a premium in Surrey when the rest of the region north of the Fraser is far more appreciative in value - especially condos. Indeed prices are on the rise in Surrey, and condos are a big hit right now - but still cheaper than Brentwood and Loughheed town centres as close relatives. Like fredinno mentioned, the demand is there for Surrey, and those amenities will come. People are buying into Surrey's future as the fastest growing city in BC. That is its appeal. Whereas other town centres are banking on building towers around a mall and skytrain stations - and that's it. Metrotown in my opinion has no character - no university, no plaza, no social connectivity, etc.

You are right that Surrey skytrain has been around for 30 years and development is Surrey is only picking up these last few years. There were many economic factors at play that put more focus on north of the Fraser by developers. But things are on the upswing and don't see things slowing down whatsoever.

As mentioned in another thread, things are looking up for the downtown area, however I'd like to see more office development.

We're seeing tremendous residential growth in the core, but the lack of office space could be cause for concern in the long run given that a downtown area should host a decent split of residential, office and commercial space.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by rpvan

As mentioned in another thread, things are looking up for the downtown area, however I'd like to see more office development.

We're seeing tremendous residential growth in the core, but the lack of office space could be cause for concern in the long run given that a downtown area should host a decent split of residential, office and commercial space.

Me too, but the thing with commercial is that you need to first attract people to live there, so that it can be serviced. It goes for Retail and Offices.

Retail for obvious reasons, Offices because of networking and labor pool. I think.

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Brentwood is (geographically) close to Metrotown too, and it can still shine on its own.

I'm getting 503 errors with those links.

Edmonds also has to contend with New West

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

Edmonds also has to contend with New West

By that standard, so does Surrey.

Originally Posted by Cypherus

I don't think prices are at a premium in Surrey when the rest of the region north of the Fraser is far more appreciative in value - especially condos. Indeed prices are on the rise in Surrey, and condos are a big hit right now - but still cheaper than Brentwood and Loughheed town centres as close relatives. Like fredinno mentioned, the demand is there for Surrey, and those amenities will come. People are buying into Surrey's future as the fastest growing city in BC. That is its appeal. Whereas other town centres are banking on building towers around a mall and skytrain stations - and that's it. Metrotown in my opinion has no character - no university, no plaza, no social connectivity, etc.

You are right that Surrey skytrain has been around for 30 years and development is Surrey is only picking up these last few years. There were many economic factors at play that put more focus on north of the Fraser by developers. But things are on the upswing and don't see things slowing down whatsoever.

Metrotown has the Civic Square and mixed-use streetfronts. Honestly, I don't know how you would potentially avoid a stale Metro-townish feeling. The name kind of fits, though, Metrotown itself is pretty much a generic name.

Maybe once most of Metrotown's parking lots at least are redeveloped, the town centre will feel more integrated and natural.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Maybe once most of Metrotown's parking lots at least are redeveloped, the town centre will feel more integrated and natural.

Metrotown doesn't have that much surface parking to redevelop (I'm still waiting on something to happen to the Old Orchard site at Kingsway and Willingdon). It's more that the area is awash in old low rise buildings - when most of those are replaced with something denser it'll start to feel different.

Surrey Central on the other hand is awash in surface parking lots, along with a lot of low rise buildings, houses and empty lots. It'll be great when it builds out but that's going to take a long time.

Originally Posted by Tetsuo

Edmonds also has to contend with New West

Absolutely. Edmonds sits pretty much in the middle between downtown Burnaby and downtown New West, and will mostly be a higher density housing node.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Metrotown doesn't have that much surface parking to redevelop (I'm still waiting on something to happen to the Old Orchard site at Kingsway and Willingdon).

They aren't deep, but have a long frontage on Kingsway.
That would include areas owned by each of Ivanhoe Cambridge and Concord Pacific.

Agreed with Orchard Park - when it and the Esso are redeveloped, it'll feel much denser.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Metrotown doesn't have that much surface parking to redevelop (I'm still waiting on something to happen to the Old Orchard site at Kingsway and Willingdon). It's more that the area is awash in old low rise buildings - when most of those are replaced with something denser it'll start to feel different.

Surrey Central on the other hand is awash in surface parking lots, along with a lot of low rise buildings, houses and empty lots. It'll be great when it builds out but that's going to take a long time.




Absolutely. Edmonds sits pretty much in the middle between downtown Burnaby and downtown New West, and will mostly be a higher density housing node.

Originally Posted by officedweller

They aren't deep, but have a long frontage on Kingsway.
That would include areas owned by each of Ivanhoe Cambridge and Concord Pacific.

Agreed with Orchard Park - when it and the Esso are redeveloped, it'll feel much denser.

Yeah, I was mostly talking about the Metropolis at Metrotown Area, along with the parking lots of Bonzor Park. Great Mall, but there is a case to be made about that thing being a sprawling beast sucking the connectivity out of the neighbourhood. Could really be great if it could undergo an Aberdeen-style redevelopment, and develop into a 5 story, denser and larger mall, but half of it'd have to be shut down at this point..

Culture is a tougher nut to crack.

[Blease]

"Culture is a tougher nut to crack."

True enough, but the culture in Surrey Central, like much else in Surrey Central is in flux. The students and young families coming into this area will continue to redefine it, including its culture.

[EhJay]

Originally Posted by Blease

"Culture is a tougher nut to crack."

True enough, but the culture in Surrey Central, like much else in Surrey Central is in flux. The students and young families coming into this area will continue to redefine it, including its culture.

But when your cultural plans are put on hold between old city hall slowing up the development at 108 and King George and the new city hall cancelling cultural programs in the core, that doesn't help at all.

[fredinno]

I really have a problem with the large amount of room between towers on the Surrey Central towers. Surrey actually seems to have towers closer together compared to other town centres (even Metrotown), and I know it's because it's suburban in feel still, but it really cuts down on walkability. I at least hope they're designed to be infilled.

[Nites]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I really have a problem with the large amount of room between towers on the Surrey Central towers. Surrey actually seems to have towers closer together compared to other town centres (even Metrotown), and I know it's because it's suburban in feel still, but it really cuts down on walkability. I at least hope they're designed to be infilled.

The parking between Surrey Central 1 and future Surrey Central 2 will be filled in with office towers eventually. They will likely move the parking underground kind of like pacific center parking and have entrance ramps on KGB. At least this is what I imagine. Also, the Surrey central rec centre will be demolished once the ice rinks are built at the other location which means another tower could be built between Surrey Central 1 and 3 Civic Plaza/GEC to fill in that gap.

[EhJay]

Originally Posted by skymaster

The parking between Surrey Central 1 and future Surrey Central 2 will be filled in with office towers eventually. They will likely move the parking underground kind of like pacific center parking and have entrance ramps on KGB. At least this is what I imagine. Also, the Surrey central rec centre will be demolished once the ice rinks are built at the other location which means another tower could be built between Surrey Central 1 and 3 Civic Plaza/GEC to fill in that gap.

I think that the long term plans to complete get rid of the mall. Shift can probably correct me if I'm wrong on that.

[Shift]

Originally Posted by EhJay

I think that the long term plans to complete get rid of the mall. Shift can probably correct me if I'm wrong on that.

The long range plans in the Central City 2 leasing brochure show the mall is to be kept but with a major overhaul, including addition of some towers, plazas, and a new entrance facing Holland Park.