PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

You should post this in the thread! Super interesting that the Subway seems to be staying.

The corner building was probably pretty beautiful at one time but everything has been stripped from it over the last 100+ years. But with the Subway building staying, it will be cool to have a little 19th century row sitting between those two much larger structures.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Nice project! Someone make a highrise thread for this!

One thing I noticed is there is currently a building where it shows those trees in the rendering. It's a squat little brick public services building. I'm assuming they've just taken some artistic licensing in removing this building and replacing it with trees so as to better show off their development. There's no chance they're demolishing it to build a small park, is there?

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by allovertown

One thing I noticed is there is currently a building where it shows those trees in the rendering. It's a squat little brick public services building. I'm assuming they've just taken some artistic licensing in removing this building and replacing it with trees so as to better show off their development. There's no chance they're demolishing it to build a small park, is there?

I'm hoping they are...the hotel might be skinny enough that the parklet is part of the plan even while the Cherry Street building (which currently houses the Office of Homeless Services...) remains?

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.955526,-...aLg!2e0!5s20161001T000000!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9554738,...c2A!2e0!5s20161001T000000!7i13312!8i6656

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by McBane

Still talking about Regional Rail? RR's bread and butter are daily commuters. Extending the line to areas where few Center City employees live doesn't make much sense. It looks nice on a map but is the demand really there? Frankly, the only major undertaking that makes sense right now for SEPTA is the BSL extension to the Navy Yard (which actually should have been done years ago). Nothing else should be prioritized ahead of that.

Yeah I totally agree. I'd rather see them consider ways to improve run times on most of the routes as a way to make center city a more viable commuting option for folks on the fringes (some runs take over 90 minutes, others take about 40 minutes to travel 12 miles as the crow flies....) before they branch even further outward. As cool as it will look on a map, I just don't see a 1hr 40minute train ride a realistic commuting option for very many people.

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I'm hoping they are...the hotel might be skinny enough that the parklet is part of the plan even while the Cherry Street building (which currently houses the Office of Homeless Services...) remains?

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.955526,-...aLg!2e0!5s20161001T000000!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9554738,...c2A!2e0!5s20161001T000000!7i13312!8i6656

^^Nothing like a nice hotel next to a homeless facility to really give the out-of-towners a good vibe of the city...

[McBane]

^ That building appears to be a city agency for homelessness, not a homeless shelter or facility. And even still, I still think the Le Meridien is in a more sketchy location than this will be. Between the court and the McDonald's at the corner of Broad, that block has enough rif raf to make an out of towner feel uncomfortable (although, the court is moving, right?).

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by McBane

^ That building appears to be a city agency for homelessness, not a homeless shelter or facility. And even still, I still think the Le Meridien is in a more sketchy location than this will be. Between the court and the McDonald's at the corner of Broad, that block has enough rif raf to make an out of towner feel uncomfortable (although, the court is moving, right?).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the HQ for the office, not a shelter.

And the family court isn't moving, but I think you're thinking of something related to the sheriff (I think Adult Probation & Parole?), which is moving (or already has?) to somewhere around 8th and Chestnut IIRC.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by McBane

^ That building appears to be a city agency for homelessness, not a homeless shelter or facility. And even still, I still think the Le Meridien is in a more sketchy location than this will be. Between the court and the McDonald's at the corner of Broad, that block has enough rif raf to make an out of towner feel uncomfortable (although, the court is moving, right?).

The court is moving to East Market, and the building is becoming apartments. Not sure whether or not McDonald's will continue to be a tenant.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the HQ for the office, not a shelter.

And the family court isn't moving, but I think you're thinking of something related to the sheriff (I think Adult Probation & Parole?), which is moving (or already has?) to somewhere around 8th and Chestnut IIRC.

Not the family court. Another court system, which is in the North Broad building that contains McDonald's. That building is adjacent to Le Meridien. I don't think they've moved yet, though. The building on East Market across from Lit Brothers is being renovated for that court system or whatever it is. Possibly, it is probation as you say. Not sure.

[PHLJD13]

My impression of the rendering is that the trees and hedge appear in place of the large Parkway lot across Cherry Street from this proposed project. The greenery was definitely added to give the project a fictionalized verdant appeal, as we can all agree that lot isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

The hotel itself seems to directly abut all four corners of the property - necessary, in my opinion, given the size of the lot.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Not the family court. Another court system, which is in the North Broad building that contains McDonald's. That building is adjacent to Le Meridien. I don't think they've moved yet, though. The building on East Market across from Lit Brothers is being renovated for that court system or whatever it is. Possibly, it is probation as you say. Not sure.

I think this is right. Family Court was on the Parkway next to the library and is now in East Market. And the other court, whatever it is on North Broad, is also moving in the future, I'm pretty sure. Alterra owns the building I believe. And I can't imagine a scenario in which they would want McDonald's (esp that one) as the ground floor tenant for what will likely become luxury apartments targeted at young professionals.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by McBane

I think this is right. Family Court was on the Parkway next to the library and is now in East Market. And the other court, whatever it is on North Broad, is also moving in the future, I'm pretty sure. Alterra owns the building I believe. And I can't imagine a scenario in which they would want McDonald's (esp that one) as the ground floor tenant for what will likely become luxury apartments targeted at young professionals.

No, no, no! You don't remember the new Family Court built several years ago at the NW corner of 15th & Arch with all the political controversy around the development contracts? That is the purpose-built Family Court facility and you can be sure it's not moving.

As to the UGI Building at Broad and Arch, I believe it's already slated for major rehab, including saying goodbye to the McDonald's. That building houses, among other things, probation/parole offices and at one time also held what was called Community Court (for low level offenses). Community Court was defunded in 2011.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

No, no, no! You don't remember the new Family Court built several years ago at the NW corner of 15th & Arch with all the political controversy around the development contracts? That is the purpose-built Family Court facility and you can be sure it's not moving.

As to the UGI Building at Broad and Arch, I believe it's already slated for major rehab, including saying goodbye to the McDonald's. That building houses, among other things, probation/parole offices and at one time also held what was called Community Court (for low level offenses). Community Court was defunded in 2011.

There's also a sign/entrance that says Center for Mentally Disturbed (or something like that) along Broad Street as well. Not sure if it's in the corner building that has the McDonalds or the one adjacent to it (and sharing a wall with PAFA).

Serious question - do other cities put such interesting tenants in such prime locations? In a city of 130 square miles, there's really only about 2 of them where we should try and avoid such places if possible, no?

[Aaamazarite]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

No, no, no! You don't remember the new Family Court built several years ago at the NW corner of 15th & Arch with all the political controversy around the development contracts? That is the purpose-built Family Court facility and you can be sure it's not moving.

As to the UGI Building at Broad and Arch, I believe it's already slated for major rehab, including saying goodbye to the McDonald's. That building houses, among other things, probation/parole offices and at one time also held what was called Community Court (for low level offenses). Community Court was defunded in 2011.

That McDonald's was such a big deal when it opened. They debuted the McVeggie Sandwich and Yogurt Parfait at the grand opening.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Londonee

There's also a sign/entrance that says Center for Mentally Disturbed (or something like that) along Broad Street as well. Not sure if it's in the corner building that has the McDonalds or the one adjacent to it (and sharing a wall with PAFA).

Serious question - do other cities put such interesting tenants in such prime locations? In a city of 130 square miles, there's really only about 2 of them where we should try and avoid such places if possible, no?

Yes, I almost mentioned that, but I wasn't certain whether it's an annex to the UGI Building (as it appears to be) or completely separate. The John F. Kennedy Behavioral Health Center facility, run by the City, is entered from Broad St. Mental health clients go there for counseling sessions and such.

[Parkway]

Originally Posted by Londonee

There's also a sign/entrance that says Center for Mentally Disturbed (or something like that) along Broad Street as well. Not sure if it's in the corner building that has the McDonalds or the one adjacent to it (and sharing a wall with PAFA).

Serious question - do other cities put such interesting tenants in such prime locations? In a city of 130 square miles, there's really only about 2 of them where we should try and avoid such places if possible, no?

I mean the flip side is that Center City is easy to get to from pretty much everywhere. If you stick these sorts of services out in the middle of the upper NE it's going to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 for people from the SW, especially if they don't have a car.

As an example criminal court in Cook County is out on the west side about 10 blocks from the nearest L station. I had a professor who used to be a PD out there and he would talk about his clients and how it would take some of them almost 2 hours to get to their hearing.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

No, no, no! You don't remember the new Family Court built several years ago at the NW corner of 15th & Arch with all the political controversy around the development contracts? That is the purpose-built Family Court facility and you can be sure it's not moving.

Yes, yes, yes! I think that Family Court moved FROM Market East (was it South 11th Street?). Thanks for the history lesson!

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by McBane

Yes, yes, yes! I think that Family Court moved FROM Market East (was it South 11th Street?). Thanks for the history lesson!

Yes, but you didn't originally say "FROM." And yes, certain functions of Family Court were in the building (previously Community College and prior to that a Snellenberg's annex), since re-skinned and renovated, where Mom's Organic Market is now.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Parkway

I mean the flip side is that Center City is easy to get to from pretty much everywhere. If you stick these sorts of services out in the middle of the upper NE it's going to 🞵🞵🞵🞵 for people from the SW, especially if they don't have a car.

As an example criminal court in Cook County is out on the west side about 10 blocks from the nearest L station. I had a professor who used to be a PD out there and he would talk about his clients and how it would take some of them almost 2 hours to get to their hearing.

Maybe North or South Broad? Market Street in the 40s? I feel like other cities without robust public transit do fine too, right? Provide a few bus routes and then ample free parking and move on? SEPTA provides disability pick up to locations already. Not every Social Service needs to be accessible by 15 rail lines, 10 trolley routes, 3 subways, and 65 buses. These just aren't the highest and best use of these spaces.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by McBane

I think this is right. Family Court was on the Parkway next to the library and is now in East Market. And the other court, whatever it is on North Broad, is also moving in the future, I'm pretty sure. Alterra owns the building I believe. And I can't imagine a scenario in which they would want McDonald's (esp that one) as the ground floor tenant for what will likely become luxury apartments targeted at young professionals.

McDonald’s may well have a longterm lease that Alterra will respect. It did not try to buy Wendy’s out st 15th and Chestnut when it bought that building. Wendy’s has a lot of time left on that lease. I expect the new owners who bought the building from Alterra will try to upgrade the tenants and won’t renew, but Wendy’s will be there for some time yet. Could be the same for McDonald’s.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Maybe North or South Broad? Market Street in the 40s? I feel like other cities without robust public transit do fine too, right? Provide a few bus routes and then ample free parking and move on? SEPTA provides disability pick up to locations already. Not every Social Service needs to be accessible by 15 rail lines, 10 trolley routes, 3 subways, and 65 buses. These just aren't the highest and best use of these spaces.

North Broad would be good.