PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[UndifferentiatEd]

They started track work like 10 years ago and then it sat for years between when they had money to continue the work.

Freight roads hate sharing track with passenger. I mean they really, really don't like to do it.

NS up to Pottstown/Reading would need large sections brought back to three tracks to facilitate sharing between NS and SEPTA. The entire signal system needs to come up to PTC as needed for passenger service.

The old Reading main to Quakertown is in deplorable condition. It's two tracked but one is used for storage, and the track that is used for through freight traffic is in bad shape. I think speed is limited to 15-20mph for freight. For passenger service to be restored it would be necessary to bring one track up to standards so, reballasting, rebuilding bridges for faster speed service, rebuilding culverts/embankments and relaying welded rail. This would be massively expensive. The Perkasie Tunnel also needs rehabilitation which is another major expense.

Not to mention SEPTA has no diesel locomotives, or infrastructure to repair/maintain a diesel fleet.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Didn't he say that this tower was going to be taller than 500 Walnut?

Who? Scannapieco as to the announcement at the other site (the Ritz)?

[Nova08]

Originally Posted by UndifferentiatEd

They started track work like 10 years ago and then it sat for years between when they had money to continue the work.

Freight roads hate sharing track with passenger. I mean they really, really don't like to do it.

NS up to Pottstown/Reading would need large sections brought back to three tracks to facilitate sharing between NS and SEPTA. The entire signal system needs to come up to PTC as needed for passenger service.

The old Reading main to Quakertown is in deplorable condition. It's two tracked but one is used for storage, and the track that is used for through freight traffic is in bad shape. I think speed is limited to 15-20mph for freight. For passenger service to be restored it would be necessary to bring one track up to standards so, reballasting, rebuilding bridges for faster speed service, rebuilding culverts/embankments and relaying welded rail. This would be massively expensive. The Perkasie Tunnel also needs rehabilitation which is another major expense.

Not to mention SEPTA has no diesel locomotives, or infrastructure to repair/maintain a diesel fleet.

And I thought there was a report that NS pretty much said they don't care what Phoenixville wants or what study they did, they are not interested.

That said, I'm pretty sure PTC went live on the NS line through Phoenixville a few months ago.

And if there was really some momentum with the proposal and Septa was really interested they could play some type of hardball with NS considering NS runs 6 daily 100-150 car trains through Norristown TC.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Nova08

And I thought there was a report that NS pretty much said they don't care what Phoenixville wants or what study they did, they are not interested.

That said, I'm pretty sure PTC went live on the NS line through Phoenixville a few months ago.

And if there was really some momentum with the proposal and Septa was really interested they could play some type of hardball with NS considering NS runs 6 daily 100-150 car trains through Norristown TC.

SEPTA is kind of sitting on the sidelines at this point. I think you would have to get Phoenixville to get enough money from the county and the feds to actually restore the third track before NS even considers talking about it.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by City Wide

From your lips to SEPTA's plans would be nice. But----the expansion to Wawa has taken over 10 years and some where around $100M in costs for a single track over existing bed of only 3 miles long! Sure that costs includes a 600 car garage and a extensive rebuild of the track bed and some bridges, but still; that's a huge pile of money and time for only 3 miles. At that pace the cost to get back to the edge W. Chester would more then $500M, and unfortunately I don't see that happening.

If SEPTA had a large increase in funding I believe that their first items to address would continue to be dealing with long overdue repairs. SEPTA has shown no interest in actual expansion, but they are happy to make plans (KOP plans) as long as someone else pays for the planning. If outside parties arrange and pay for expansion, like Phoenixville is thinking of doing, SEPTA might be open to that, but only if the expansion doesn't cost them any money.

I'd like to see a area wide plan for the future and a method of increasing the funding base. But I doubt that the suburban counties will ever agree to a funding plan that they think might somehow benefit the City.

It hasn't taken 10 years, but it is very expensive. And its instructive in terms of cost per mile for rail service- even when using an existing ROW. The first phase of work on this project started 2-3 years ago.

[cardeza]

Renders of skinny hotel on North 15th street

https://philly.curbed.com/2019/1/7/18172130/14-story-high-rise-hotel-center-city

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Renders of skinny hotel on North 15th street

https://philly.curbed.com/2019/1/7/18172130/14-story-high-rise-hotel-center-city

I posted this in lowrise developments, but I guess it actually DOES qualify as a highrise. I really like that they are including greenery as part of the property.

[shakman]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I posted this in lowrise developments, but I guess it actually DOES qualify as a highrise. I really like that they are including greenery as part of the property.

I am just excited to see what's currently being replaced.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Renders of skinny hotel on North 15th street

https://philly.curbed.com/2019/1/7/18172130/14-story-high-rise-hotel-center-city

Nice project! Someone make a highrise thread for this!

[iamrobk]

Good development, and a hotel there makes perfect sense given the proximity to both the Parkway and the convention center. I only wish we'd see more development of the parking lots in that area. There are still way too many in the area from Race to Vine, 11th to 18th.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Nice project! Someone make a highrise thread for this!

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=8428677#post8428677
Done.

[iheartphilly]

^
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsVWQB3lIM5/

3-5 years for completion? Is that right?

[phishtown]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsVWQB3lIM5/

3-5 years for completion? Is that right?

I assume that means it'll be ready to begin construction in 1-3 years + construction time.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=8428677#post8428677
Done.

Nice! Thanks!

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by cardeza

It hasn't taken 10 years, but it is very expensive. And its instructive in terms of cost per mile for rail service- even when using an existing ROW. The first phase of work on this project started 2-3 years ago.

I was under the impression that serious final plans began in 2004/5 and the first contracts were put out for bid in 2009. But I have no specific details. In any case-----I'm firmly convinced that the upper management of SEPTA has little to no interest in expansion. So Delaware Valley Planning Commission and the people who run development along the Delaware River, and the City's transportation office end up bringing out interesting plans/concepts that are pretty much dead on arrival. I will give you 20 to 1 odds that in 10 years not one bit of construction will have been done on the recent KOP plans. My question is how did this redo of service to Wawa, that only stopped in 1986, ever get pushed along. My guess is there wasn't room for big time parking further in along this line, so this 3 mile expansion is primarily to connect to SEPTA's new parking garage.

This isn't to completely beat up on SEPTA because I think much of what they are doing with the states money is good and much needed (that funding stream is set to sunset in 2022) but I wish someone at SEPTA had some dreams of how expansion might be able to help them grow in the long term. Getting commuter rail service back to West Chester shouldn't even be a question, but raising 100's of millions of $$$ certainly is.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by City Wide

I was under the impression that serious final plans began in 2004/5 and the first contracts were put out for bid in 2009. But I have no specific details. In any case-----I'm firmly convinced that the upper management of SEPTA has little to no interest in expansion. So Delaware Valley Planning Commission and the people who run development along the Delaware River, and the City's transportation office end up bringing out interesting plans/concepts that are pretty much dead on arrival. I will give you 20 to 1 odds that in 10 years not one bit of construction will have been done on the recent KOP plans. My question is how did this redo of service to Wawa, that only stopped in 1986, ever get pushed along. My guess is there wasn't room for big time parking further in along this line, so this 3 mile expansion is primarily to connect to SEPTA's new parking garage.

This isn't to completely beat up on SEPTA because I think much of what they are doing with the states money is good and much needed (that funding stream is set to sunset in 2022) but I wish someone at SEPTA had some dreams of how expansion might be able to help them grow in the long term. Getting commuter rail service back to West Chester shouldn't even be a question, but raising 100's of millions of $$$ certainly is.

If SEPTA won't go back to West Chester, I've heard that the WCRR will.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by City Wide

This isn't to completely beat up on SEPTA because I think much of what they are doing with the states money is good and much needed (that funding stream is set to sunset in 2022) but I wish someone at SEPTA had some dreams of how expansion might be able to help them grow in the long term. Getting commuter rail service back to West Chester shouldn't even be a question, but raising 100's of millions of $$$ certainly is.

There's actually a pending lawsuit seeking to claw back Act 44 money. Although the suit is a long-shot to succeed, it throws a caution flag on capital spending.

SEPTA facing $63 million capital budget shortfall over motorists' lawsuit | PlanPhilly.com

Excerpt:
Two organizations, the Owner Operator Independent Drivers Association Inc. –– a truckers lobby –– and the National Motorists Association, sued the state in March, holding that it was illegal for Turnpike revenues to be spent on anything other than highway maintenance.

Automotive groups across the US have tied similar funding diversions to rising tolls. The legal battle in PA mimics a similar suit filed in 2013 by truckers’ groups in New York state over toll revenues diverted to fund improvements along the Erie Canal. That legal effort was initially successful but was thrown out on appeal last year.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

Good development, and a hotel there makes perfect sense given the proximity to both the Parkway and the convention center. I only wish we'd see more development of the parking lots in that area. There are still way too many in the area from Race to Vine, 11th to 18th.

Yes. But especially along Broad and 15th Streets. Which makes sense because of the number of automobile traffic coming from 676. But still, unacceptable. Although this hotel project is not replacing a surface lot, the existing building is definitely forgettable. According to the PlanPhilly article:

The recent history of the space is unclear, but property records show that it was an empty lot in the 1990s, and later owned by Y&S Foods.

Is this true? If this was actually built in the 1990's, then damn, it really puts our complaints about the quality of today's architecture into perspective.

What's left unsaid is the status of the other building where Subway is. Hard to tell from the renderings but I think it's staying. I actually think that's pretty cool to see a 3 story 19th century building wedged between two high rises.

A few other items:

How about them Eagles? Did you guys all notice the commercials for Glass? Featured some really nice skyline shots (although, it's hard to compete with Chicago's magnificent skyline, but I digress). I hadn't seen the commercials before but it was nice to see on nationally televised programming.

Still talking about Regional Rail? RR's bread and butter are daily commuters. Extending the line to areas where few Center City employees live doesn't make much sense. It looks nice on a map but is the demand really there? Frankly, the only major undertaking that makes sense right now for SEPTA is the BSL extension to the Navy Yard (which actually should have been done years ago). Nothing else should be prioritized ahead of that.

Happy New Year!

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by McBane

Is this true? If this was actually built in the 1990's, then damn, it really puts our complaints about the quality of today's architecture into perspective.

What's left unsaid is the status of the other building where Subway is. Hard to tell from the renderings but I think it's staying. I actually think that's pretty cool to see a 3 story 19th century building wedged between two high rises.

I saw in the Curbed article the claim that it was a vacant lot in the 90s, but that is definitely incorrect. There was never a vacant lot on that side of the block since I moved here in 1980 and, looking through the zoning archives, I see activity there going back to at least the 50s (I'm fairly certain they're much older than that).

As to the Subway at 125 N. 15th, it's NOT part of the hotel plans and its building has different ownership.

The hotel encompasses 127, 129 and 131 N. 15th St. The latter 2 were long ago combined into one lot and last year all were consolidated into one lot.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

I saw in the Curbed article the claim that it was a vacant lot in the 90s, but that is definitely incorrect. There was never a vacant lot on that side of the block since I moved here in 1980 and, looking through the zoning archives, I see activity there going back to at least the 50s (I'm fairly certain they're much older than that).

As to the Subway at 125 N. 15th, it's NOT part of the hotel plans and its building has different ownership.

The hotel encompasses 127, 129 and 131 N. 15th St. The latter 2 were long ago combined into one lot and last year all were consolidated into one lot.

You should post this in the thread! Super interesting that the Subway seems to be staying.