Highways in Canada

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Again, that's just your opinion. Highway 7 is 50km shorter and provides comparable travel time. You keep stating that somehow that is totally an illogical choice for anyone to make, but that's a totally subjective argument. You're just making a fool of yourself.

I would tend to agree with you. Our cottage is in North Frontenac. We could take the 401 and the 37 or 41 up, which, under best conditions, is a faster route, but prefer Hwy. 7 because it's slightly shorter and there's far less tractor-trailer traffic.
As far as Ottawa, for those driving Ottawa<>Toronto, 7 is a more direct route, but the speed of travel is slower. It's a toss-up.

[Gresto]

I love this evocative '80s pic of the 401:

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I don't use GPS - my new car has a system, but I have no idea how to operate it. I don't have a cellphone either, by choice.

I'm an "old timer" too, but I love my GPS. I'm geographically literate but really like watching the navigation display and seeing the street grid as my car passes through a town or city.

As for the GPS proper, whenever I take a road trip to someplace new, I will always program in the address of any hotel I'm staying at, or any attraction I plan to visit. My car (BMW) has a HUD, complete with traffic guidance and lane assist, so that I know what lane I should be in prior to an exit. There is also voice guidance. This is all invaluable when trekking through a large city that I am not familiar with.

Of course, you can't just blindly follow the instructions. You also have to employ common sense. There are too many stories out there about "GPS disasters" where an unwary driver gets stuck on a back road in the middle of nowhere just because it was the "shortest route".

[Taeolas]

Signage is still important, even with GPS. It is not a standard feature yet. (My mom got a new 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe and it didn't have GPS), and it may not be up to date. Plus signs are a good way to verify what the GPS is telling you, and just to reassure that you're going the right way.

Of course, signs have to be easy to understand. I'm a local and I know the layout, but I find one entrance to the TCH near Fredericton is confusing.

The ramp to the TCH to Edmundston is the immediate left turn, whereas the ramp to Moncton/Saint John are straight ahead and to the left. IMO, Edmundston should be on top since it is the first turn, and have a left arrow, while Moncton/Saint John should be on the bottom and have a bent left arrow. (And really, Edmundston should be using the right ramp to come onto the highway; but that intersection is just badly set up period IMO).

*Edit* Putting the closer direction on the bottom seems to be standard at least in NB if not beyond, so I guess that isn't so bad; but having a bent arrow on that sign is more confusing to me. *End Edit*

[MonctonRad]

And, paradoxically, you are making a left hand turn to go to Edmundston, which is actually towards the right.

There are too many highway entrance points like that in NB...........

[yaletown_fella]

The green highway signage looks so much better than the blue signage.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm an "old timer" too, but I love my GPS. I'm geographically literate but really like watching the navigation display and seeing the street grid as my car passes through a town or city.

As for the GPS proper, whenever I take a road trip to someplace new, I will always program in the address of any hotel I'm staying at, or any attraction I plan to visit. My car (BMW) has a HUD, complete with traffic guidance and lane assist, so that I know what lane I should be in prior to an exit. There is also voice guidance. This is all invaluable when trekking through a large city that I am not familiar with.

Of course, you can't just blindly follow the instructions. You also have to employ common sense. There are too many stories out there about "GPS disasters" where an unwary driver gets stuck on a back road in the middle of nowhere just because it was the "shortest route".

I am a map geek and always have been. When GPS and Google Maps and Earth were invented it was like a magical gift. The cherry on the sundae. But I didn't really need them.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am a map geek and always have been. When GPS and Google Maps and Earth were invented it was like a magical gift. The cherry on the sundae. But I didn't really need them.

I too am a map geek, and have a number of atlases at home, as well as an expansive library of "folding" maps. The GPS in my car is like a magical moving map that helps to entertain me on otherwise boring drives.

[manny_santos]

I much prefer Highway 7 between Ottawa and the GTA compared with the 401/416. Not only is it a more scenic drive but truck traffic is rather heavy on the 401 route, particularly between Cobourg and Kingston where it’s only two lanes each way.

I doubt 7 needs to be twinned, though I wouldn’t object to a straighter alignment between Carleton Place and Perth and also maybe a bypass of Havelock or Norwood.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My car has a factory-installed voice-activated GPS that doesn't need a cellphone wireless connection. So it's always on when I am driving.

But a lot of people I know don't have this type of built-in GPS in their vehicles, so they need to use their cellphone data in order to access GPS information. I guess it depends on their data package but my sense is that's a deterrent for quite a few. (It's true that some people load up the directions when they have access to wifi, and it stays accessible on their phone even if not connected.)

You also can't look at your phone at all while driving in most jurisdictions so that's an issue if you're alone, though you can activate the voice that gives you directions. But you can't program new directions or changes on your phone while driving if you're alone.

Bottom line is I think it's an exaggeration to say that most *everyone* uses a GPS while driving these days.

Until I recently upgraded to a 4GB plan, I used GPS on my phone very sparingly. Back when I had only 500MB I could burn through 50% of my month’s data in a 6-hour trip.

[sonysnob]

I travel to the US generally a few times per year, and the last few times I've gone I haven't bothered with my US sim card and just done the roam-like-home deal through my Canadian provider. It doesn't take very long to go through the 100MB of daily data they give you through that plan though. Offline maps through the Goog is a truly great thing.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Prove that. I know lots of people who couldn't find Kingston or Trenton or Belleville on a map.

I do find it quite disturbing the faith that people put in the GPS or online Google Maps etc on their phone in the car instead of looking where they are in general on an actual map so that if there is a traffic accident or poor weather on their current route they have a bit of a clue of an alternate route.

Many people have no clue or truth be told no interest. They continue on the route that the GPS tells them to use.

From about Stittsville west it is probably quicker to head to Toronto via Hwy 7 and then through Tweed or the 35/115 route to the 401. It is certainly shorter and a bit more scenic.

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

You know that, you just wrote that post above because you and I have argued in the past and you chose to be a dink.

I don't recall. But I do find it quite amusing how emotional you're getting about this.

Originally Posted by sonysnob

For those who say that it's stupid that the 401 doesn't use Montreal as a control city east of Toronto, it's a pretty easy counter-argument to point out that exceedingly few vehicles leaving Toronto heading east are actually going to Montreal. It's hard to know exactly, but the number of motorists actually bound for (or stopping in) Kingston is probably comparable to that that is destined to Montreal.

The purpose of control cities is generally not to show where the majority of people are going from a given on ramp, it's to show the next major destination in a given direction of travel. Most drivers have at least a general sense of where Montreal is even if they're not going that far. But a lot of drivers don't have a clue what a Cornwall is, let alone use it as an indication of which direction to drive.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

I travel to the US generally a few times per year, and the last few times I've gone I haven't bothered with my US sim card and just done the roam-like-home deal through my Canadian provider. It doesn't take very long to go through the 100MB of daily data they give you through that plan though. Offline maps through the Goog is a truly great thing.

Who gives that shitty amount of data? Rogers gives you your regular plan under roam like home.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Mister F

I don't recall. But I do find it quite amusing how emotional you're getting about this.

I wasn't emotional, I was just having fun arguing on the internet. If someone is going to argue about something stupid, I feel as though might as well try to get them as amped up as possible while doing so.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Gresto

I love this evocative '80s pic of the 401:

Great pic.

I drive this section every day at rush hour. I know it's just a picture and we don't know what day that picture was taken - or the time of day, for that matter - but that traffic volume in the 80s looks similar to what I encounter today.

I've found that highways generally move pretty well as long as there aren't design shortcomings. I believe the 401 was redesigned in the early 2000s to add an additional lane in the westbound express west of Leslie, and it seems to work. All the hotspots for traffic in Toronto are due to a design flaw where the civil engineers didn't anticipate the user experience of the thousands of people who would travel through that stretch. These are things like lanes ending before a major exit and unnecessary on- and offramps that conflict with another entrance or exit causing drivers to weave. The axiom that adding lanes causes congestion doesn't really stand up in my experience. It's more where the lanes are added; if it's not to circumvent a bottleneck then, of course, you'll have problems.

If I could redesign just three highway locations in the GTA, they would be:

- eliminate the York Mills offramp and Fairview Mall onramp from the southbound 404/DVP;
- build a ramp from the southbound 400 to the 401 east express lanes (eliminating the needless lane changing to make it onto the basket-weave, which often backs traffic up to Finch) and maybe adding an additional lane on the eastbound 401 express at least as far as the exit for Yonge;
- eliminating the Dixon Rd./Martin Grove exit on the 401 to effectively turn the 401 stretch between the 409 and 427 into the "express lanes", with all collector traffic using the 409/427 combo instead.

[Dengler Avenue]

I’ll add one more (although we really should be discussing this under the Ontario forum):
Redo 401/404 already!
404S to 401E needs to be a flyover instead of the current cloverleaf which jams the 404S collector like crazy. In addition, permanently close access from there to DVP.

[sonysnob]

The biggest thing that I would do for the 401 in the central part of the city would be to add an additional westbound collector lane between the off-ramp to Yonge Street and the on-ramps from Avenue Road. There are only six westbound lanes between Yonge Street and Avenue. Aside from that gap, there are no less than seven westbound lanes from the 404 westerly to the 409.

[swimmer_spe]

If I had the magic wand, I would have the 407 go to QEW via the current 403, and the current 403 not make the curve, but go straight to Hamilton. It would actually make 403 one continuous highway.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's never been signed with Gatineau (or Hull) only.

It was always one of the following:

Vaudreuil
Ottawa
Ottawa-Hull
Ottawa-Gatineau

The 40 in Montreal (even in the East) was always signed "Ottawa-Hull" westbound, at least for as long as I remember (into the 1990s). The 20 westbound was signed "Toronto" at least as far east as east of the Turcot interchange.

I can't say I recall Montreal not being indicated on the 401 in Toronto... I didn't really notice. I guess I always knew where I was going

One thing I know for sure (passing there quite often) is that in Albany the 'control city' for 87 north is Montreal (87 south is NYC). That's probably the same distance as Toronto, and similar emptiness.