Highways in Canada - Page 367

sonysnob · #**7321** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is no universe where, from the Bayshore area of Ottawa, Highway 7 is a better routing to Toronto than 416-417. It's not really a matter of opinion in this case, at least based on the needs of the vast majority of drivers which are to get from point A to point B as quickly and safely as possible.

Again, that's just your opinion. Highway 7 is 50km shorter and provides comparable travel time. You keep stating that somehow that is totally an illogical choice for anyone to make, but that's a totally subjective argument. You're just making a fool of yourself.

sonysnob · #**7322** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Those signs aren't primarily for locals or map geeks, they're for people who have little to no idea where they are going. Those people do exist. Out of all the people on the 401 who are going to be driving eastbound out of Toronto but are shaky on geography or even road geek culture, the largest share will be bound for either Montreal or Ottawa.

Prove that. I know lots of people who couldn't find Kingston or Trenton or Belleville on a map.

Acajack · #**7323** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Again, that's just your opinion. Highway 7 is 50km shorter and provides comparable travel time. You keep stating that somehow that is totally an illogical choice for anyone to make, but that's a totally subjective argument. You're just making a fool of yourself.

My self-worth it totally unrelated to my opinion on control city signage policies.

Acajack · #**7324** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Prove that. I know lots of people who couldn't find Kingston or Trenton or Belleville on a map.

Perhaps but most any of them if they live in the GTA or southern Ontario know that they have to take the 401 East (or perhaps in the "direction of Oshawa") in order to get to those cities.

Dengler Avenue · #**7325** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Twinning Highway 7 as the main route from Ottawa to Toronto wouldn't have been a bad idea. Though obviously the 416 was chosen due to being the lowest hanging fruit, taking advantage of a shorter route (fewer $$$) via the 401 that it already there. Even if not as direct.

Note that I leave the segment between Madoc and Perth as is though. The AADT there is low enough that anything between 95 and 110* kph is attainable.

* Beware curves and speed traps though.

Acajack · #**7326** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Just one more thing about signage. I think people forget when they argue on the internet that a highway sign has to convey information to motorists that are blowing by the sign at 120 km/h. There is a very finite amount of information that can be conveyed to a motorist who is traveling at that speed. Highway designers have to be really cognizant about what information they actually give to drivers. It's really really easy to put far too much information on a sign, and overload .

For example, this is a terrible sign assembly:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@36.1680177,-...CBA!2e0!5s20150301T000000!7i13312!8i6656
There is way too much information conveyed on that sign for a driver to read all of it and still pay attention to the road in front of them.

Just as another example, it's common in Quebec for lane assignment signage (signs with downward pointing arrows over lanes) to be split up across several different overhead gantries. Long street and community names are common in Quebec, so for example, on A-20 approaching the A-25 interchange, the MTQ has chosen not to try to sign all of the lanes at once. You can see what I mean below:

Sign 1, left two lanes and right lane:

Sign 2, two right lanes:

Sign 3, left three lanes:

Sign 4, two right lanes:

Sign 5, two right lanes:

There's a sixth sign as well, but I don't have a photo of it handy, but you get my drift. That's a solution to information overload, but it's flawed in of itself, it would probably be more clear to try and sign at least four lanes at least once, but I'm not sure it was practical in this application.

Quebec's signage does sometimes suffer from information overload I would say, but the upshot is that is also does generally have lots of information.

And you're right about many long toponyms - the French language is like that.

sonysnob · #**7327** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Perhaps but most any of them if they live in the GTA or southern Ontario know that they have to take the 401 East (or perhaps in the "direction of Oshawa") in order to get to those cities.

I bet the same percentage of them know that about Montreal too.

sonysnob · #**7328** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

My self-worth it totally unrelated to my opinion on control city signage policies.

Maybe, but if you want to be taken seriously in argument you're going to have to try to package your bullshit better.

Acajack · #**7329** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonysnob

I bet the same percentage of them know that about Montreal too.

Again, they're not the ones this type of signage is primarily destined to.

Acajack · #**7330** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Maybe, but if you want to be taken seriously in argument you're going to have to try to package your bullshit better.

I am just not seeing the legions of supporters who agree with you and think what I am saying is bullshit.

sonysnob · #**7331** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:44 PM**

The people who made the signage I guess would disagree.

If only they had have been as smart as the people who seem to act as if they know it all on every single thread on Skyscraperpage. Wouldn't it be great if everyone could know as much as you Acajack? We wouldn't even need highway signs anymore.

Acajack · #**7332** Posted **Jan 5, 2019, 6:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonysnob

The people who made the signage I guess would disagree.

If only they had have been as smart as the people who seem to act as if they know it all on every single thread on Skyscraperpage. Wouldn't it be great if everyone could know as much as you Acajack? We wouldn't even need highway signs anymore.

That's actually not that far from reality.

osirisboy · #**7333** Posted **Jan 6, 2019, 12:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's actually signed "Ottawa-Gatineau" westbound in the Montreal area.

Seriously? That's good. Wasn't like that when I last drive that section (2006)

Acajack · #**7334** Posted **Jan 6, 2019, 1:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Seriously? That's good. Wasn't like that when I last drive that section (2006)

It's never been signed with Gatineau (or Hull) only.

It was always one of the following:

Vaudreuil
Ottawa
Ottawa-Hull
Ottawa-Gatineau

The Chemist · #**7335** Posted **Jan 6, 2019, 3:01 AM**

With all this talk about signage and directions, I have to wonder - is anyone these days still driving without using GPS navigation, given how good cell phones have become at it? Especially in an unfamiliar area? When I drive here in China I always use navigation simply because in a city as large as Shanghai I'll never be familiar enough with the roads to know exactly where to go - and because navigation apps include lane guidance (i.e. what lane you should be in at any time), license plate restrictions, speed limits, construction zones, and the location of traffic control cameras (speed, red light, illegal lane change, etc).

Dengler Avenue · #**7336** Posted **Jan 6, 2019, 4:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chemist

With all this talk about signage and directions, I have to wonder - is anyone these days still driving without using GPS navigation, given how good cell phones have become at it? Especially in an unfamiliar area? When I drive here in China I always use navigation simply because in a city as large as Shanghai I'll never be familiar enough with the roads to know exactly where to go - and because navigation apps include lane guidance (i.e. what lane you should be in at any time), license plate restrictions, speed limits, construction zones, and the location of traffic control cameras (speed, red light, illegal lane change, etc).

I don’t, due to limited coverage.

Acajack · #**7337** Posted **Jan 6, 2019, 4:26 AM**

My car has a factory-installed voice-activated GPS that doesn't need a cellphone wireless connection. So it's always on when I am driving.

But a lot of people I know don't have this type of built-in GPS in their vehicles, so they need to use their cellphone data in order to access GPS information. I guess it depends on their data package but my sense is that's a deterrent for quite a few. (It's true that some people load up the directions when they have access to wifi, and it stays accessible on their phone even if not connected.)

You also can't look at your phone at all while driving in most jurisdictions so that's an issue if you're alone, though you can activate the voice that gives you directions. But you can't program new directions or changes on your phone while driving if you're alone.

Bottom line is I think it's an exaggeration to say that most *everyone* uses a GPS while driving these days.

The Chemist · #**7338** Posted **Jan 6, 2019, 12:26 PM**

I guess I forgot about how ridiculously expensive Canadian mobile service is, and how crappy the coverage can be in rural areas. Definitely one of the things I miss least about living in Canada. Here in China it's cheap and coverage is exceptional (not a surprise given the population density) so I didn't even think about that.

jmt18325 · #**7339** Posted **Jan 6, 2019, 3:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

My car has a factory-installed voice-activated GPS that doesn't need a cellphone wireless connection. So it's always on when I am driving.

But a lot of people I know don't have this type of built-in GPS in their vehicles, so they need to use their cellphone data in order to access GPS information. I guess it depends on their data package but my sense is that's a deterrent for quite a few.

It uses very little data in my experience.

kwoldtimer · #**7340** Posted **Jan 6, 2019, 3:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

My car has a factory-installed voice-activated GPS that doesn't need a cellphone wireless connection. So it's always on when I am driving.

But a lot of people I know don't have this type of built-in GPS in their vehicles, so they need to use their cellphone data in order to access GPS information. I guess it depends on their data package but my sense is that's a deterrent for quite a few. (It's true that some people load up the directions when they have access to wifi, and it stays accessible on their phone even if not connected.)

You also can't look at your phone at all while driving in most jurisdictions so that's an issue if you're alone, though you can activate the voice that gives you directions. But you can't program new directions or changes on your phone while driving if you're alone.

Bottom line is I think it's an exaggeration to say that most *everyone* uses a GPS while driving these days.

I don't use GPS - my new car has a system, but I have no idea how to operate it. I don't have a cellphone either, by choice.