Calgary International Airport II

[YYCguys]

OOTI, that’s a really good analysis! I had completely forgotten about the former free 30 minutes! I can totally see the connection! Well, if the authority will incorporate that space into the post security zone, then it might save what little retail is still left in Banff Hall.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

OOTI, that’s a really good analysis! I had completely forgotten about the former free 30 minutes! I can totally see the connection! Well, if the authority will incorporate that space into the post security zone, then it might save what little retail is still left in Banff Hall.

True - and in particular I recall families with young kids getting a snack and watching planes / checking out the "space port".

[ImmortalHawk]

Originally Posted by suburbia

True - and in particular I recall families with young kids getting a snack and watching planes / checking out the "space port".

I remember visiting "Space Port", and I was one of those 'young kids' at the airport. Still a fan of the airport, but I feel like the Banff Hall area is just like a dead mall. They should reorganize the shops, since there isn't really that much commotion in there anymore. It's like a secluded area that no one goes to anymore...

[Johnny Aussie]

November stats... seeing the effects of losing NRT and BA LHR.

http://www.yyc.com/en-us/media/factsfigures/passengerstatistics.aspx

Overall up 4.0%
Domestic up 4.0%
Transborder up 12.3%
International down 10.3%

[PPAR]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Personally I think the Airport Authority did this to themselves and are simply unwilling to admit their mistake. Short term parking at the airport used to be free for the first 30 minutes. You used to see lots of people taking advantage of this feature when they were either picking up or dropping off people at the airport. During those 30 minutes people would grab a coffee and browse the shops and spend their money.

A few years ago the Airport Authority began charging for the first 30 minutes of parking and the impact was almost instantaneous... the cell phone pick up lot was packed full and the curbside pick up points on the arrivals level were a zoo during peak times. Why the Airport Authority decided it made more sense to have people idling in their own cars in a cell phone lot instead of browsing the terminal and spending their money at retailers is beyond me but since that decision was made there has been a steady stream of retail closings pre-security.

Changing the policy back might save some of the retail but at this point I don't think the Airport Authority really cares. My guess is future renovations will change the layout of the terminal so that these shopping areas become post security to try and capture a larger (and captive) market.

I think you hit the nail on the head. My family has stopped using parking and we now do cell phone curbside pickups all the time. The parking charge was the deciding factor on the change in behavior for us.

[MalcolmTucker]

I believe they are going to a unified security point in the old USA customs hall type space?

Empty it out. Move as much as possible post security.

[Bokimon]

"I don't think the airport authority really cares" Couldn't have said it better myself.
The retail scene there is a wasteland, just pathetic and I feel for the sorry suckers who works up at Spaceport.. The overall public experience is that of dread and misfortune, almost a literal symbolic representation to the plight of Calgary's economy due to the recession and all the job losses... Or is it?
Even Eau Claire market has more life than this place lol and that is slated to be torn down in another year or so.

Alot of these including the International Terminal Expansion decision making from the very top, was it really the CEO or the board of directors pulling all the strings? Do guys like CSEC President Ken King for instance have a huge influence in the way this airport is to operate and what projects is to proceed as well as design decisions to over rule that of an architect.
The current CEO if I recall had a strong retail background, surely this current state must be most bothersome and I wonder if his hands are tied up with all sorts of other matters including the will of the director boards. From my observation seeing them at the AGM and hearing them speak, they just look like a bunch of rich oil guys, Sports guy and philanthropists running this airport like a side gig to take in as much money from the public as possible, including the rip off short term parking pay structure. I know that all too well first hand..
I was a sucker and parked short term parking from 930am till 12:15pm and paid $44 dollars on the way out 2 weeks ago..
ABSOLUTELY CRIMINAL! I think Downtown parking is less than that..

WIth the future renovations slated, that from my understanding is only for the check in area for the old AC and US transborder desks?
They speak of grandeur with making it a destination or hub of sorts for the traveling public but without any decent amenities, YYC is plugging this with the same kind of delusional grandeur of A380s and new airlines pouring in like a few years ago when they were building the ripoff IFP.

[Tobuz]

An overly harsh assessment, I think

Yes, the ITB had its fair share of design problems — and most were reportedly top-down demands from the then-CEO. (Ie the underground tunnel to parking that nobody uses, the decision to make a call-to-gate terminal in a “wait-at-gate” world, the afterthought of connections to/from the A concourse.)

Was (is) it perfect? No. But I don’t think there was ever any delusional grandeur. YYC never, ever pitched A380s or new airlines flying here because we were getting a new building. No airline decides on a route or an aircraft based on what the terminal looks like, and every airport person on the planet knows that. It’s based 100% on the economics of the the route. Nobody from YYC ever said anything like that.

And the “rip-off ITB”, as you call it, was absolutely needed. The old terminal was operating beyond its capacity. And any cross-border flier who used the old B concourse can speak to what an utterly horrible experience it was.

(Now, could they have done without that $4mm parking tunnel that nobody uses, and that has no easy access to the departures level? Absolutely.)

The new leadership is spot-on, I think, with their main focus on improving the passenger experience. It’s what they should do — passengers (along with airlines) are their key customers. (And the passenger experience in the months following the ITB opening took a hit, especially for connecting WS passengers.)

But Sartor hasn’t pitched any grandeur or delusions when he layed out the direction.

[Cage]

The domestic retail problems at YYC are a factor of the following:
(1) CATSA taking longer than it should for pre-board security screening. The lineups at A and C security should have substantially dissipated once international traffic moved to the new terminal. However this didn't occur. The result is pax that are now going immediately from Checkin to preboard security screening. CATSA also has the ear of the news media so this message is being reinforced.
(2) Putting the Marriott Hotel between the international and domestic terminals means that most pax are treating the terminals as separate buildings and not going to domestic terminal for retail opportunities.
(3) The split between international and domestic terminals is also carried forward to airport & airline employees. AC crew used to meet in domestic food hall for a meal prior to flying LHR or FRA, now this is done post security in the international terminal. WS crew an TAC agents are no longer in the domestic food hall.
(4) Airports don't get much revenue from arrival pax or the meet and greet people associated with arrival pax. The change to discontinue free short term parking for 30min probably didnt have as much of a negative impact as others have thought. It did have a impact, just not the be all primary reason. Its a good fourth place finish.
(5) One high impact area that Bokimon touched on was the high hourly rates for short term parking. They are charging something $8.50 for 1 hour short term and $10 for 1 hour longterm. These rate dissuade people from coming out to the airport for any retail reason.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Cage

.....
(5) One high impact area that Bokimon touched on was the high hourly rates for short term parking. They are charging something $8.50 for 1 hour short term and $10 for 1 hour longterm. These rate dissuade people from coming out to the airport for any retail reason.

What? YVR has a reputation for having excessive parking charging. But that is nothing in comparison to YYC.

YVR Parkade Rates:
1/2 Hour $4.75
1 Hour $9.50
Daily $34.00

YVR Long-term (short free skytrain ride away):
1 Hour $ 4.00
Daily $17.00

The Calgary rates are simply out to left field.

[hoboman27]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23JvuatO...E576BLuIn8XWO6ipZyMjKBWndqAkeZq4nCkM3bPs

Really cool footage at YYC. Didn't know we have a local avgeek youtuber with 10k subs!

[YYCFlier]

We projecting 17.0 - 17.5 million pax for 2018?

[hollywoodcory]

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

We projecting 17.0 - 17.5 million pax for 2018?

I’d say about 17.1 or 17.2 million

[jc_yyc_ca]

100% agree. I have used the new terminal about a dozen times since it opened and have never had any issues departing or arriving. Perhaps it could have been better from a design point of view - and the experts in the room would know that better than myself - but strictly from the point of view of a passenger who doesn't care about all the inner workings of an airport, it's been fine.

Originally Posted by Tobuz

An overly harsh assessment, I think

Yes, the ITB had its fair share of design problems — and most were reportedly top-down demands from the then-CEO. (Ie the underground tunnel to parking that nobody uses, the decision to make a call-to-gate terminal in a “wait-at-gate” world, the afterthought of connections to/from the A concourse.)

Was (is) it perfect? No. But I don’t think there was ever any delusional grandeur. YYC never, ever pitched A380s or new airlines flying here because we were getting a new building. No airline decides on a route or an aircraft based on what the terminal looks like, and every airport person on the planet knows that. It’s based 100% on the economics of the the route. Nobody from YYC ever said anything like that.

And the “rip-off ITB”, as you call it, was absolutely needed. The old terminal was operating beyond its capacity. And any cross-border flier who used the old B concourse can speak to what an utterly horrible experience it was.

(Now, could they have done without that $4mm parking tunnel that nobody uses, and that has no easy access to the departures level? Absolutely.)

The new leadership is spot-on, I think, with their main focus on improving the passenger experience. It’s what they should do — passengers (along with airlines) are their key customers. (And the passenger experience in the months following the ITB opening took a hit, especially for connecting WS passengers.)

But Sartor hasn’t pitched any grandeur or delusions when he layed out the direction.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

100% agree. I have used the new terminal about a dozen times since it opened and have never had any issues departing or arriving. Perhaps it could have been better from a design point of view - and the experts in the room would know that better than myself - but strictly from the point of view of a passenger who doesn't care about all the inner workings of an airport, it's been fine.

I agree 100%. While no a perfect airport it’s much roomier than the old terminals. It has lots of extra room to grow into itself. I’ve used the airport probably 20 times since the expansion opened and haven’t had an issue. I can’t say that about YVR and YYZ thought. Security at both of them have been a disaster. People don’t like the “link” but it cuts the walk down big time when going between piers. The walk between trans border and domestic is rediculous on YVR and there isn’t any link helping there. There are som many cities around the world would kill to have YYC’s facilities and extra room for expansion

[s211]

Originally Posted by msmariner

I can’t say that about YVR and YYZ thought. Security at both of them have been a disaster.

YYZ as a general rule, for sure, but YVR? The only security point there to be avoided is for the A&B domestic gates. It seems that checkpoint gets more INfrequent travellers that get boggled when they have to go through the security measures. The other security checkpoints don't seem to be that bad.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

100% agree. I have used the new terminal about a dozen times since it opened and have never had any issues departing or arriving. Perhaps it could have been better from a design point of view - and the experts in the room would know that better than myself - but strictly from the point of view of a passenger who doesn't care about all the inner workings of an airport, it's been fine.

I agree. I flew 18 times last year either through the US gate or International date and I've got no complaints. It isn't perfect but it it so much better then the majority of airports I've been through.

[DDP]

Originally Posted by outoftheice

Personally I think the Airport Authority did this to themselves and are simply unwilling to admit their mistake. Short term parking at the airport used to be free for the first 30 minutes. You used to see lots of people taking advantage of this feature when they were either picking up or dropping off people at the airport. During those 30 minutes people would grab a coffee and browse the shops and spend their money.

A few years ago the Airport Authority began charging for the first 30 minutes of parking and the impact was almost instantaneous... the cell phone pick up lot was packed full and the curbside pick up points on the arrivals level were a zoo during peak times. Why the Airport Authority decided it made more sense to have people idling in their own cars in a cell phone lot instead of browsing the terminal and spending their money at retailers is beyond me but since that decision was made there has been a steady stream of retail closings pre-security.

Changing the policy back might save some of the retail but at this point I don't think the Airport Authority really cares. My guess is future renovations will change the layout of the terminal so that these shopping areas become post security to try and capture a larger (and captive) market.

Banff store is a hold over from older airport designs. Today most airports are moving most retail and food services post security. Even Toronto has gotten rid of most pre security shopping options and moved them post. Just look at the new Intl section for Calgary, limited options landside. Security and check in has changed over last 20 years, and pickup is changing too. Money makers are now post security for the airport.

It is the world today, most of these services should be pushed to air side long term.

[Denscity]

Lots of stores and restaurants pre-security at YVR.

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by rotten42

I agree. I flew 18 times last year either through the US gate or International date and I've got no complaints. It isn't perfect but it it so much better then the majority of airports I've been through.

I flew JFK a few times last year, and a couple of time through Heathrow. Neither are airports I enjoy using. I think people get too picky and lose site of the big picture.