Winnipeg Construction IX

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Crossed the CN mainline at Waverly. Trains on the new bridge and demolition of the "shoofly" railway tracks actively underway.

[1ajs]

enough with the negative off topic in this thread............
go use the western expresso thread if u want to continue that discussion... but keep it civil. destablization of community is not cool.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

enough with the negative off topic in this thread............
go use the western expresso thread if u want to continue that discussion... but keep it civil. destablization of community is not cool.

All can agree that the series of posts made in recent days had veered off the topic of Winnipeg Construction, but the discussion had not become entirely negative nor uncivil. The posts were deleted rather than moved to the Western Expresso thread as was a very reasonable suggestion, while the originating post which gave rise to the discussion was not moderated which is rather strange.

Back on topic, with respect to the Northeast Pioneer Greenway, it has become a much valued part of Northeast Winnipeg, and any councillor who would advocate or aquiesce to it's conversion to a high speed bus roadway would have a very limited political future. Density exists in the areas adjacent to Henderson Hwy as does high ridership, even as far north as Knowles, where it does not to anywhere near the same degree along Gateway and it likely never will. A tram line on a dedicated right of way on Henderson would be the best investment for the area.

[bomberjet]

Because Edmonton's climate is completely different than Winnipeg's.. That's sarcasm by the way. Leaving Winnipeg for Edmonton is a lateral move, regardless of how many condos are being built.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

All can agree that the series of posts made in recent days had veered off the topic of Winnipeg Construction, but the discussion had not become entirely negative nor uncivil. The posts were deleted rather than moved to the Western Expresso thread as was a very reasonable suggestion, while the originating post which gave rise to the discussion was not moderated which is rather strange.

Back on topic, with respect to the Northeast Pioneer Greenway, it has become a much valued part of Northeast Winnipeg, and any councillor who would advocate or aquiesce to it's conversion to a high speed bus roadway would have a very limited political future. Density exists in the areas adjacent to Henderson Hwy as does high ridership, even as far north as Knowles, where it does not to anywhere near the same degree along Gateway and it likely never will. A tram line on a dedicated right of way on Henderson would be the best investment for the area.

The Northeast Pioneer Greenway was put in with the understanding that it would be eventually moved off to one side. Transit can fit in a two lane BRT roadway and still have have room in the right of way for the trail to exist.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by cllew

The Northeast Pioneer Greenway was put in with the understanding that it would be eventually moved off to one side. Transit can fit in a two lane BRT roadway and still have have room in the right of way for the trail to exist.

The Greenway would not be the same with buses whizzing by.

The understanding has changed. It'll be fought tooth and nail. Not happening.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

The Greenway would not be the same with buses whizzing by.

Balderdash. Phase 1 of the SWBRT line has a AT path running nearby and it is plenty enjoyable. The buses are less far disruptive than the stream of cars on the streets that run along the Greenway.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by esquire

Balderdash. Phase 1 of the SWBRT line has a AT path running nearby and it is plenty enjoyable. The buses are less far disruptive than the stream of cars on the streets that run along the Greenway.

The people don't want it it in EK/NK and esp. anywhere near the now beloved Greenway. There are more logical alternatives as I suggested earlier.

[esquire]

^ Plenty of room for both. The Greenway and RT lines will co-exist just fine.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by esquire

Balderdash. Phase 1 of the SWBRT line has a AT path running nearby and it is plenty enjoyable. The buses are less far disruptive than the stream of cars on the streets that run along the Greenway.

Watch it - he knows latin.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Ando

Watch it - he knows latin.

Oh, that's a non sequitur.

And it got an actual LOL.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Back on topic, with respect to the Northeast Pioneer Greenway, it has become a much valued part of Northeast Winnipeg, and any councillor who would advocate or aquiesce to it's conversion to a high speed bus roadway would have a very limited political future.

The old rail line was purchased with the intent for it to be a BRT corridor. <full stop>.

Further, the community consultations on the greenway were clear and upfront on what the plans were. Nothing hidden here at all.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

The Greenway would not be the same with buses whizzing by.

The understanding has changed. It'll be fought tooth and nail. Not happening.

That corridor would be the perfect place to built a future BRT for the area.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The old rail line was purchased with the intent for it to be a BRT corridor. <full stop>.

Further, the community consultations on the greenway were clear and upfront on what the plans were. Nothing hidden here at all.

Long time residents of the area are aware of this but that was over a decade ago and any appetite for BRT in this city is now much reduced after the realization that Winnipeggers were sold a bill of goods regarding the SW Transitway. Perhaps it is time to hold a referendum on future expansion of BRT.

People are aware that the cost, which is north of a half a billion dollars for an 11 km (8 mile) roadway, has not been justified. The first leg has resulted in no significant investment in TOD and nor is there any evidence that ridership has increased in the areas served by it. Meanwhile, routes along Portage, Henderson, St. Mary's and Main often run over capacity. What we have now is a corridor where only one station is utilized and that one unfortunately is covered in pigeon poop. The others lie almost unused; desolate and windswept. The second leg, the so called "dog leg", will run through areas where there are very few people, and where there are people, they are most certainly not the transit using demographic. The "B" in BRT is increasingly standing for boondoggle rather than bus.

I am virtually certain that any candidate for council in NK who is in favour of converting a portion of the Greenway to a high speed bus road has no chance of winning election. The current councillor would be vehemently opposed to such a project. There is no need to built a RT line to serve a large supermarket, a strip mall and Gateway rec centre. The density and ridership are adjacent to Henderson Hwy. not to the Greenway, and furthermore, residents near Gateway do not want clusters of apartment towers in their area! Any such plan will be vigorously opposed.

Finish the SW BRT as too much has already been invested in it. There must be a moratorium on all future BRT expansion and a rail based system planned and built expediently to serve areas which already have significant population density and ridership. Build it for the people who use it, as opposed to build it and they might ride. Remember, the city and environs are pushing towards a million even faster than anticipated. We have already outgrown BRT. If the choice was BRT or nothing then I would think it better to have no RT system and utilize the funds for increased frequencies on heavily-used routes (so we could achieve better route rationalization) and a more comfortable system for the user, such as properly heated shelters and increased safety.

(Just for a joke, check out the routing of the 16 Osborne-Island Lakes, it is tantamount to torture for those poor riders who use it).

[cllew]

There may be a legal condition from the Buhler's when they sold the land (after they bought it from CP) to the city that it be used for the Rapid Transit line when the time comes.

Sort of the same line as the conditions on the public land use that is part of the PSB complex.

[Curmudgeon]

Perhaps that the land be used for a public purpose, which it is, but I think we can be fairly certain that the city did not guarantee that a RT line would be built down the corridor.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The old rail line was purchased with the intent for it to be a BRT corridor. <full stop>.

Further, the community consultations on the greenway were clear and upfront on what the plans were. Nothing hidden here at all.

And it will continue the blossoming Winnipeg tradition of putting rapid transit where it's easiest to build, not where it's most needed.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

And it will continue the blossoming Winnipeg tradition of putting rapid transit where it's easiest to build, not where it's most needed.

I've been doing a good job in keeping my mouth shut and not getting into the same disagreements again with regards to the SW Transitway dogleg, but if it's to agree with someone, I'll speak up!

So, I agree! The SE-NE alignment would be pointless as a BRT route, connecting nothing to nothing with nothing in between. Luckily it'll probably never be built.

[dennis]

I thought that rapid transit would be built as a main transit arterial with bus routes feeding into it. For example a north east route would take all residents of east and north kildonan to where they need to go. Routes like 44 would either cease to exist or be changed to feeder routes to the main brt route. 44 would not go downtown, or would go downtown as a brt route (144). Therefore it would not only service gateway cc, superstore and a few strip malls but all the routs feeding into it.

[ywgwalk]

What makes a BRT line directly through the middle of Elmwood/EK/NK "pointless" compared to any other area/alignment?

It's a 20 minute walk from Henderson to Gateway, so everyone in between there would suddenly be 10 minutes or less from either. That's a lot of people, and then there's a bunch more within 10 minutes of Gateway to the east.

Also seems like the BRT would be a great location for higher density development, especially since there's been a push for that in EK already.

Finally, there's a fair bit of business/industry there too (*cough* just like the SW alignment *cough*)