Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Colin4567

I love it - we went on topic for 2 seconds but thanks for dragging us back from the main theme!

...and we went off-topic again. Can we seriously discuss the subject on the thread title, and not about commuter rail in this thread? It's called "Rapid Transit" for a reason.

Originally Posted by BirchTrain

https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/wha...lls-for-refreshed-plans-after-lrt-nixed/

The revitalization of Newton was centred around LRT. Now that it is effectively cancelled, the BIA is trying to figure out what will happen next. I think the "revitalizations" should go ahead, such as expanding the library. You don't need LRT for that.

Doug Elford will be trying to get BRT for the area and the rest of Surrey, which Translink is also supportive of.

White Rock/South Surrey deserve some attention for rapid transit. It doesn't even have to be rail-based. I know Newton needs a rebuild, but it's just cringeworthy that it has to be the one and only biggest town center in Surrey. The BIA in Newton has no interest for the rest of SoF, and it's taking a regionalist (although boneheaded) approach.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

White Rock/South Surrey deserve some attention for rapid transit. It doesn't even have to be rail-based. I know Newton needs a rebuild, but it's just cringeworthy that it has to be the one and only biggest town center in Surrey. The BIA in Newton has no interest for the rest of SoF, and it's taking a regionalist (although boneheaded) approach.

*Provincialist; regionalist would be thinking of the whole region (SoF/Lower Mainland/BC) at the expense of the country. Agreed otherwise.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

...and we went off-topic again. Can we seriously discuss the subject on the thread title, and not about commuter rail in this thread? It's called "Rapid Transit" for a reason.

Commuter Rail is Rapid...

Ok, Ok, I'll move the discussion.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by BirchTrain

https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/wha...lls-for-refreshed-plans-after-lrt-nixed/

The revitalization of Newton was centred around LRT. Now that it is effectively cancelled, the BIA is trying to figure out what will happen next. I think the "revitalizations" should go ahead, such as expanding the library. You don't need LRT for that.

Doug Elford will be trying to get BRT for the area and the rest of Surrey, which Translink is also supportive of.

I love how like no one in Surrey who makes decisions seems to have ever visited Uptown New Westminster

[BirchTrain]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

I love how like no one in Surrey who makes decisions seems to have ever visited Uptown New Westminster

I guess it’s just “Surrey’s turn for rapid transit,” eh?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

I love how like no one in Surrey who makes decisions seems to have ever visited Uptown New Westminster

Yeah, they need to realize that they should be advocating for easier yet effective solutions, like expanding the Frequent Transit Network through Newton and Guildford. Uptown New West is served by two FTN lines, and this means in the middle of the day the bus frequency between there and New West SkyTrain station is about every 7 minutes, compared to the 96 B-Line's 9 minute frequency. It's also got the 101, the 105, the 128, and the 155, so getting to Uptown from SkyTrain is pretty easy.

Contrast that with Newton where you've got one choice, the 96 B-Line, and you have to do it from Surrey Central. B-Lines are nice and all but they need more supporting FTN lines as well.

[xd_1771]

So this is a big one and I will try to summarize it as best as I possibly can.

TransLink releases briefing outlining development of Surrey-Langley SkyTrain work plan.

It is in the Mayors' Council Dec 13 agenda. LINK: https://www.translink.ca/-/media/Documen...ors-Council-PUBLIC-MTG--Dec-13-FINAL.PDF

Important things to know:

• Project work to proceed with the aim to start service for the Expo Line: Langley Extension in 2025
• SkyTrain delivery will be 3-4 YEARS SOONER than a Surrey-Langley LRT (was expected to be completed 5 years after an SNG LRT, so that means 2028-29)
• 15-month schedule to fully develop the SkyTrain work plan; 8-month schedule to develop an overall South of Fraser transit strategy
• Draft business case for SkyTrain expected in month 7-9, final business case review & approval expected around month 12
• 8 stations on initial Expo: Langley extension, provision for 1 FUTURE station at Fraser Highway and 148 St.
• TransLink CEO Kevin Desmond wrote to the provincial Deputy Minister Jacquie Dawes to CONFIRM that the province will support the Expo: Langley Extension under the provincial CAMF framework, which as the same as for the other projects.

TEXT OF TRANSLINK RESOLUTION TO BE CONSIDERED BY MAYORS' COUNCIL AT DEC 13 MEETING:

PROPOSED RESOLUTION

That the Mayors’ Council on Regional Transportation:

1. Endorse the work plan in this report that directs TransLink to:
   a) proceed immediately with planning and project development work for a SkyTrain on Fraser Highway project. and,
   b) concurrently, initiate a planning process to refresh the South of Fraser rapid transit strategy, consistent with the 10-Year Vision of building 27 km of rapid transit on the three corridors.
2. Endorse the cancellation of the Fraser Highway B-Line in the Phase One Plan, and instead direct the planned resources to improving the 96 B-Line and existing services on Fraser Highway.
3. Receive this report.

If approved, SkyTrain is a go!

[xd_1771]

Also of note and I expect this to be controversial, but I will explain as best as I can:

TransLink resolution proposes cancellation of Fraser Highway B-Line

Important things to know:

• SkyTrain construction expected to impact the Fraser Hwy B-Line within years of its introduction in 2019
• Main concern is most permanent infrastructure for the B-Line (i.e. digital next bus signs, shelters, dedicated lanes for buses) would be torn up within years to accommodate for SkyTrain construction. This is what happened for all of the 98 B-Line infrastructures on No. 3 Road (dedicated lanes, shelters, etc) when Canada Line construction began.
• In lieu of Fraser B-Line, TransLink will improve and redesign the existing 502/503. This will address overcrowding and service quality. The new service could be a combination of local and all-day, limited stop express service (i.e. improved 503) and for all we know articulated buses might still be introduced.
• In lieu of Fraser B-Line, existing 96 B-Line to be IMMEDIATELY IMPROVED to the upgraded B-Line standard. These improvements had not been planned for, as the assumption was to replace 96 with LRT by 2023. Now, 96 riders will enjoy new branding, customer information, possibly improved service frequency, and improved infrastructure such as traffic signal priority and more dedicated bus lanes.
• 'Cost-effective' transit priority measures on Fraser Highway will STILL be pursued.
• Worth pointing out too but as a trade-off, 503 service will remain as-is (express) instead of converted to a local service. And could be improved significantly as part of the new interim service plan.

Personally, I trust that TransLink will deliver a reasonable interim service plan and solid improvements for Fraser Hwy, but my expectation is that some people (especially in Langley) will be ticked off by what will obviously be presented mainly as the cancellation of the Fraser B-Line. I can already see the objections coming from Langley City (at least certain people). Just hoping people won't forget that this is in lieu of SKYTRAIN coming in 2025.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

If approved, SkyTrain is a go!

Wow, it's impressive how fast things can move when you get a sensible plan that the right people can support...

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Also of note and I expect this to be controversial, but I will explain as best as I can:

TransLink resolution proposes cancellation of Fraser Highway B-Line

Important things to know:

• SkyTrain construction expected to impact the Fraser Hwy B-Line within years of its introduction in 2019
• Main concern is most permanent infrastructure for the B-Line (i.e. digital next bus signs, shelters, dedicated lanes for buses) would be torn up within years to accommodate for SkyTrain construction. This is what happened for all of the 98 B-Line infrastructures on No. 3 Road (dedicated lanes, shelters, etc) when Canada Line construction began.
• In lieu of Fraser B-Line, TransLink will improve and redesign the existing 502/503. This will address overcrowding and service quality. The new service could be a combination of local and all-day, limited stop express service (i.e. improved 503) and for all we know articulated buses might still be introduced.
• In lieu of Fraser B-Line, existing 96 B-Line to be IMMEDIATELY IMPROVED to the upgraded B-Line standard. These improvements had not been planned for, as the assumption was to replace 96 with LRT by 2023. Now, 96 riders will enjoy new branding, customer information, possibly improved service frequency, and improved infrastructure such as traffic signal priority and more dedicated bus lanes.
• 'Cost-effective' transit priority measures on Fraser Highway will STILL be pursued.
• Worth pointing out too but as a trade-off, 503 service will remain as-is (express) instead of converted to a local service. And could be improved significantly as part of the new interim service plan.

Personally, I trust that TransLink will deliver a reasonable interim service plan and solid improvements for Fraser Hwy, but my expectation is that some people (especially in Langley) will be ticked off by what will obviously be presented mainly as the cancellation of the Fraser B-Line. I can already see the objections coming from Langley City (at least certain people). Just hoping people won't forget that this is in lieu of SKYTRAIN coming in 2025.

Wait- how exactly did they get the Skytrain to Langley with the current funding? They removed the new OMC (which is just leaving the costs for that new facility down the road for a later date- Edmonds is getting pretty crowded), and some money was saved by removing the Fraser Hwy B-line (though mitigated by upgrading the 96-B Line).

They kept the same # of stations, so...?

I thought it would have ended somewhere in Clayton or Fleetwood with the approved funding?

[BirchTrain]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Also of note and I expect this to be controversial, but I will explain as best as I can:

TransLink resolution proposes cancellation of Fraser Highway B-Line

Important things to know:

• SkyTrain construction expected to impact the Fraser Hwy B-Line within years of its introduction in 2019
• Main concern is most permanent infrastructure for the B-Line (i.e. digital next bus signs, shelters, dedicated lanes for buses) would be torn up within years to accommodate for SkyTrain construction. This is what happened for all of the 98 B-Line infrastructures on No. 3 Road (dedicated lanes, shelters, etc) when Canada Line construction began.
• In lieu of Fraser B-Line, TransLink will improve and redesign the existing 502/503. This will address overcrowding and service quality. The new service could be a combination of local and all-day, limited stop express service (i.e. improved 503) and for all we know articulated buses might still be introduced.
• In lieu of Fraser B-Line, existing 96 B-Line to be IMMEDIATELY IMPROVED to the upgraded B-Line standard. These improvements had not been planned for, as the assumption was to replace 96 with LRT by 2023. Now, 96 riders will enjoy new branding, customer information, possibly improved service frequency, and improved infrastructure such as traffic signal priority and more dedicated bus lanes.
• 'Cost-effective' transit priority measures on Fraser Highway will STILL be pursued.
• Worth pointing out too but as a trade-off, 503 service will remain as-is (express) instead of converted to a local service. And could be improved significantly as part of the new interim service plan.

I would still like to see the new B-Line, even if it doesn’t have any dedicated lanes or next stop signs. Having that B-Line branding makes it look much more attractive to transit riders.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Also of note and I expect this to be controversial, but I will explain as best as I can:

TransLink resolution proposes cancellation of Fraser Highway B-Line

Important things to know:

• SkyTrain construction expected to impact the Fraser Hwy B-Line within years of its introduction in 2019
• Main concern is most permanent infrastructure for the B-Line (i.e. digital next bus signs, shelters, dedicated lanes for buses) would be torn up within years to accommodate for SkyTrain construction. This is what happened for all of the 98 B-Line infrastructures on No. 3 Road (dedicated lanes, shelters, etc) when Canada Line construction began.
• In lieu of Fraser B-Line, TransLink will improve and redesign the existing 502/503. This will address overcrowding and service quality. The new service could be a combination of local and all-day, limited stop express service (i.e. improved 503) and for all we know articulated buses might still be introduced.
• In lieu of Fraser B-Line, existing 96 B-Line to be IMMEDIATELY IMPROVED to the upgraded B-Line standard. These improvements had not been planned for, as the assumption was to replace 96 with LRT by 2023. Now, 96 riders will enjoy new branding, customer information, possibly improved service frequency, and improved infrastructure such as traffic signal priority and more dedicated bus lanes.
• 'Cost-effective' transit priority measures on Fraser Highway will STILL be pursued.
• Worth pointing out too but as a trade-off, 503 service will remain as-is (express) instead of converted to a local service. And could be improved significantly as part of the new interim service plan.

Personally, I trust that TransLink will deliver a reasonable interim service plan and solid improvements for Fraser Hwy, but my expectation is that some people (especially in Langley) will be ticked off by what will obviously be presented mainly as the cancellation of the Fraser B-Line. I can already see the objections coming from Langley City (at least certain people). Just hoping people won't forget that this is in lieu of SKYTRAIN coming in 2025.

Sounds like a good plan. Still don't get why the 503 is basically drop off only. So dumb while a full 502 drives right by.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Colin4567

I love it - we went on topic for 2 seconds but thanks for dragging us back from the main theme!

I build tunnels for a living, so I've got a vested interest.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

I build tunnels for a living, so I've got a vested interest.

Sounds like a boring job...

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Sounds like a boring job...

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by BirchTrain

I would still like to see the new B-Line, even if it doesn’t have any dedicated lanes or next stop signs. Having that B-Line branding makes it look much more attractive to transit riders.

Understandable, but it’ll be a waste of resources when they put priority signalling, bus shelters and real-time display on the corridor only to be removed shortly when SkyTrain begins service.

[BirchTrain]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

Understandable, but it’ll be a waste of resources when they put priority signalling, bus shelters and real-time display on the corridor only to be removed shortly when SkyTrain begins service.

What I’m saying is to not put those things in, minimize the amount that will end up being wasted when SkyTrain comes through.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by BirchTrain

What I’m saying is to not put those things in, minimize the amount that will end up being wasted when SkyTrain comes through.

Pretty sure the B-Line would require the purchase of additional articulated buses; seems better to skip it entirely and use that money on the SkyTrain.

[BirchTrain]

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translink...JpyOQuin5DJirs4cfLq5Gn7vIFnaxfSdVXGapWB4

Supporters of light rail transit (LRT) previously argued a cancellation of the Surrey Newton-Guildford (SNG) LRT would delay any rail rapid transit extension in the South of Fraser by decades, but that no longer seems to be the case.

A series of work plan recommendations in a new report to be considered by TransLink’s Mayors’ Council this week highlights that the public transit authority is aiming for a 2025 opening of the 16-km-long Fraser Highway extension of SkyTrain’s Expo Line from King George Station to Langley Centre.

Looks like all that fearmongering by LRT supporters having rapid transit pushed back by a decade was just that: fearmongering. 2025 does seem kind of ambitious, though. Translink appears to want to build this in one phase, which would probably require more funding, despite what McCallum said about doing it with $1.65 billion.

Also, how does a guideway with beams transition to a segmented guideway? Asking for some engineers.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by BirchTrain

Also, how does a guideway with beams transition to a segmented guideway?

They didn't have any problems dealing with this during the construction of the Millennium line. For example the overpass of Highway 1 was constructed separately, and when the launching truss that hoists up and assembles the guideway segments got there it just crawled over top of the overpass and continued assembling the guideway on the other side.