Winnipeg Construction IX

[esquire]

The site of the WHL rink is going to be pretty convenient for most of the southern and western parts of the city. So if you look SW Winnipeg as its own market of about 300,000 people, that's more than enough to build on even if people in North Kildonan hardly ever set foot in the rink. I'm sure the location will probably have some appeal for people in nearby rural areas too... it's an easy in and out for someone living in La Salle or Carman, for instance.

I wonder how TNSE will respond to this? Do they try to find ways to extort Moose sponsorships and ticket purchases from their current Jets ticket holders? Do they cut prices in an effort to pull out the rug from under the WHL club? Do they maintain the status quo and compete based on quality of hockey and arguably quality of venue since even a new WHL rink won't measure up to the MTS Centre? Or do they pull up stakes and move to Thunder Bay or wherever?

[1ajs]

jr hockey will do ok in time remeber u got the ruraul hockey and being on the edge of the city serves them better

[bomberjet]

I wonder if they'll get a WHL team in there, such as the Blues. Maybe that will be too much to handle for the smaller rink.

The Mosaic rink in Mosse Jaw cost over $60M in 2011 and was funded mostly by government. Big risk for private folks to build something on that level.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The Mosaic rink in Mosse Jaw cost over $60M in 2011 and was funded mostly by government. Big risk for private folks to build something on that level.

It's a huge risk (which is partly why I wonder if there hasn't been some sort of deal worked out with TN). I have a hard time imagining that there aren't better investments out there. But good for those guys.

I wonder what the fallback plan is if the WHL doesn't take off?

One thing's for sure though, they are going to have two years of tough sledding by inheriting a last place team and playing in what will be by far the crappiest venue in the WHL.

[bomberjet]

I read the FreeP article last night as it wasn't paywalled. The one owner used to work at True North. It was noted there main completion is TN so I doubt they'll have any sort of agreements with them. They want to take on the monopoly of concerts that TN currently has. Just remember that part as I'm sick as a dog the past couple days.

Another point in the article is they have a couple really good youngsters. And since they're near the bottom, they're in the mix for top pick, which is said to be a really good player.

[trueviking]

They must be banking on the Moose leaving town. Attendance numbers to sustain WHL teams is not far off the AHL. I just cant see it working with both.

I do agree that part of the allure of the moose is that its the same arena as the jets, but I guess if they make the new one feel first class, and not a bigger version of the st james civic centre, it might be a suitable experience.

I also agree that i can't see convenience being much of a factor. Its not a grocery store. I cant see anyone saying I would go to a moose game but its too inconvenient. Any convenience for Waverley West is a significant inconvenience for 80% of the city.

Seems like a huge investment risk to me. There isn't a good track record for WHL teams in Winnipeg, or even big cities. What happens when the team moves? What do you do with a 5,000 seat arena in the middle of nowhere?

[The Unknown Poster]

Would the agreement TN had with the province (or was it city) about investment into enclosed entertainment venues prohibit public investment in this new arena? Will it have to be completely private?

I think in terms of the Moose, the only reason they were relocated to begin with was the feeling that Winnipeg could not support two pro teams. And they have managed to.

Plus the fact True North sees the Moose as part of the business of the Jets, and not an entity that had to generate profit on its own such as when they owned it before the Jets. The Moose are just the price of doing business and they like the ease of having them in Winnipeg.

[bomberjet]

The building in Moose Jaw has a full bowl. Much better than the Civic Centre haha

Everything we've heard from TN is the love having the Moose here. Does anybody have numbers from TN on how financials look? Likely not.

[esquire]

^ Not a chance, unless we can persuade a disgruntled employee to start leaking information here

[drew]

Originally Posted by trueviking

They must be banking on the Moose leaving town. Attendance numbers to sustain WHL teams is not far off the AHL. I just cant see it working with both.

I do agree that part of the allure of the moose is that its the same arena as the jets, but I guess if they make the new one feel first class, and not a bigger version of the st james civic centre, it might be a suitable experience.

I also agree that i can't see convenience being much of a factor. Its not a grocery store. I cant see anyone saying I would go to a moose game but its too inconvenient. Any convenience for Waverley West is a significant inconvenience for 80% of the city.

Seems like a huge investment risk to me. There isn't a good track record for WHL teams in Winnipeg, or even big cities. What happens when the team moves? What do you do with a 5,000 seat arena in the middle of nowhere?

Basically my entire group of friends lives in SW Winnipeg or in the surrounding bedroom communities. And if they are any indication, the above bolded is not at all correct. Convenience is a HUGE factor for these people. And by and large, downtown is not convenient for them. Who could be bothered from say, Bridgwater on a weekday night or weekend to drive downtown to go to see the Moose? I live within walking distance, and even I couldn't be bothered, maybe with free or almost free tickets, but even then...

If this WHL team ever makes it out of the UofM as planned, it will immediately be more popular than the Moose - IMO.

[bomberjet]

That's exactly it Jeff. I think he meant convenience for the rest of the City. As it will be super convenient for your friends in SW Winnipeg. That area is not convenient for 80% of the City and the team will rely on SW Winnipeg and surrounding areas

[drew]

^ but again, they likely don't care about the other 80% of the city. They know where their bread will be buttered. And a short hop down from Costco is basically like shooting fish in a barrel for SW Winnipeg.

[bomberjet]

Yes and that's fine. Hopefully everything works out.

Personally I've been to 1 Moose game since they returned, and it was free haha. Bell MTS is quite convenient for me. 1 bus ride. But I do have Jets season tickets so get my fill of hockey there, and from small local games in my area.

[CoryB]

I find it somewhat odd that Red River Ex had publicly put out a similar plan for an approximately 5,000 seat arena on their grounds essentially next door to the MTS IcePlex on a site that already has more than enough parking for that size of crowd. That a different proposal is coming forward seems to suggest either the Red River Ex proposal fell through or something else is at play.

It is also somewhat interesting that the proposed 5,000 seat arena could make a nice home for the Moose as well or perhaps the Bison teams or maybe even a CWHL team. There is also the old talk of bringing a professional lacrosse team to the city. The challenge is Bell MTS Place is too valuable a building for those relatively low revenue teams.

In terms of WHL attracting people, they could basically spam essentially "free" tickets to youth hockey players with the hopes they will be bringing some parents along with them. They could even do "free with another ticket" type of offers. Free parking, cheaper concessions, an engaging atmosphere and fewer stoppages in play (see Jets tv time outs) would go a long way. Toss in free on site parking v the $10+ experience downtown and a lower ticket price and you basically cut the market out from under the Moose.

The other somewhat telling piece, perhaps, is MLLCC cut their long standing "free tickets to youth sports team" program for the Jets this year. I get that crown corporations are under pressure to justify expenditures like that but that someone else, like the True North Youth Foundation didn't step it to continue to program speaks just as loudly about it.

As for a possible Moose relocation project, I always felt that Fargo, ND would be a better fit that Thunder Bay. It is closer to Winnipeg and doesn't really have a pro sports team. It is also close enough to quickly move players if needed. The one complication is limited commercial flights in/out of Fargo but that doesn't really seem to limit the team now as the Moose and Jets don't actively travel together.

The one parting though it last time Winnipeg had an NHL and WHL team at the same time it didn't end too well for the local WHL team.

[CoryB]

Re prices for WHL -- cut the ticket and all concession prices in half v the current Moose operations. Toss is free parking. Make the time from start of game to end of game a little quicker by cutting out lost time in the period for unneeded stoppages and locate it closer to home shorting the time between the rink and home.

Convenience might not be the #1 factor but when you are trying to get kids from school to a game and back home and need to cover supper and homework it definitely starts being a factor in things. Cheaper price is huge too when you start talking a family of 4+. Say you can go to the WHL for a games, and everyone gets a hot dog, pop/beer, and popcorn v only tickets to the Moose and you go home with cash left if your pocket as you didn't pay parking. It wouldn't be hard to see who is going to win out there.

[1ajs]

we need a balanced aproach thats for sure everything cant go downtown and everything cant go in the burbs the whl thing is risky but i les u take risk you dont know and honstly it will do fine i would imagin theres a market for it

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

For me driving down to McGillivray is a complete hastle since I live in the NE. That said, I would for sure check out a game or two, mostly for the novelty.

The new rink is said to be going on the same property as The Rink's new complex (confused yet haha) I think it's the same owners too. The people who own In Touch 24/7.

correct the RHA facility (Rink Hockey Academy) is already well under construction, they have 3 "Academy" teams currently training primarily out of Southdale CC, The Rink on Lowson and go to school at Shaftsbury.

The WHL franchise will be in another new much larger rink that will be an add-on to this already almost complete facility.

24/7 Owner is involved with "The Rink" too.

this has been in the works for years, the owners, the coach and 3 of their recent draft picks are all Winnipegers.

[windypeg]

Taking the kids out there for a WHL game is one thing, but concerts? If you're taking a few kids to a game you're probably driving, not drinking, and going straight home after. But how many people are going to want to go to a concert in the middle of nowhere, with no transit access, and nowhere to go before or after? Maybe they'd steal a few shows from Club Regent but I can't see it being any real competition for BellMTS place.

[wags_in_the_peg]

last year I went to a game in Moose Jaw and the previous year in Regina, both great arenas, great hockey and it's top notch entertainment. It's nothing like going to a MJHL game or U of M game.

They will need to do something with Mcgilvary, I've been to the new DeLuca grocery a few times and it's a nightmare trying to get in and out. giant roundabout is my solution!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by windypeg

Taking the kids out there for a WHL game is one thing, but concerts? If you're taking a few kids to a game you're probably driving, not drinking, and going straight home after. But how many people are going to want to go to a concert in the middle of nowhere, with no transit access, and nowhere to go before or after? Maybe they'd steal a few shows from Club Regent but I can't see it being any real competition for BellMTS place.

Let's say they build a 5,000 seat arena with another 1,500 seats on the floor. Depending on whether one end is curtained off, you could have concerts with 5,000-6,500. Not many MTS Centre shows exceed 6,500 in attendance by a wide margin. So it could work. (And yeah, they probably would book acts that would otherwise go to the Burt or Club Regent...)

And FWIW there are a bunch of places to go after the event right nearby at Kenaston and McGillivray... Moxie's, Joeys, BP, Brewhouse and Mr. Mike's are a few that come to mind.