Winnipeg | Downtown | True North Square | U/C

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I'd be willing to bet we may see Telus stake claim to a building here now that they have a much larger client base in Manitoba, even if they don't open offices here. Wouldn't be surprised to see them nab some naming right around the city.

Now that you mention it, it's a little peculiar how Telus doesn't really have any profile when it comes to buildings around here, at least when you consider that Rogers and especially BellMTS have gone to some lengths in that regard.

Do they even have an office presence downtown?

[buzzg]

Telus had such a small business here before that there's never been a reason to bother in the past. I had heard a few years ago I think they had around 10% of the mobile phone market here – and unlike Alberta and BC, no home phone or internet services.

Now that they got a huge chunk of the MTS mobile business – and actually have the best network in MB now – I think we'll start seeing a little more community investment from Telus. They've recently dropped their shared plans here to WELL below Rogers and BellMTS, so they're clearly making a big push here.

[bomberjet]

I still have a hard time understanding the mobile networks. Who shares networks with whom? Why would Telus have such a good network with so little market share? They didn't just spring up a bunch of new infrastructure because of the MTS thing did they? Or because less people are using their network?

I'm with Rogers and seems the network has gotten worse since the MTS sale. Almost like they reconfigured towers or something. I don't know. I've heard this from numerous people. I've been with Rogers for a while. More recently I stayed with them as they offered NHL GameCentre for 'free' for the duration of your contract. That has now been dropped so no reason to stay with them.

Off topic for this thread. Maybe we move it elsewhere.

[buzzg]

Moved to Winnipeg – Of Interest

[Tyler19944]

I’m very proud of Winnipeg and this project! Now that the new hotel is being built, I wonder if it would be in Deltas best interest to do a reclad of their tower to bring it up to the standards of the area.
Has that ever been considered?

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by Tyler19944

I’m very proud of Winnipeg and this project! Now that the new hotel is being built, I wonder if it would be in Deltas best interest to do a reclad of their tower to bring it up to the standards of the area.
Has that ever been considered?

They'll eventually have to do something to stay relevant, otherwise the most logical thing would be a residential conversion then Delta Hotels could look at a new construction to try and compete with some of the other better hotels in the area. I'd be surprised if neither the Radisson, the Delta, or the Fairmont sought to make some upgrades once Sutton Place is up and running, as it will be the clear cut destination hotel downtown once completed. In a perfect world, all of those would actually just become residential conversions and they would all construct new somewhere nearby (for example fairmont could team up with Harvard, Radisson could try and team up with Artis or Richardson or something, Delta could try their hand at one of the lots nearer to the convention center, etc). Who knows, perhaps as the demand for newer hotels increases, some new players will enter the game with some pretty interesting proposals.

[EspionNoir]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

They'll eventually have to do something to stay relevant, otherwise the most logical thing would be a residential conversion then Delta Hotels could look at a new construction to try and compete with some of the other better hotels in the area. I'd be surprised if neither the Radisson, the Delta, or the Fairmont sought to make some upgrades once Sutton Place is up and running, as it will be the clear cut destination hotel downtown once completed. In a perfect world, all of those would actually just become residential conversions and they would all construct new somewhere nearby (for example fairmont could team up with Harvard, Radisson could try and team up with Artis or Richardson or something, Delta could try their hand at one of the lots nearer to the convention center, etc). Who knows, perhaps as the demand for newer hotels increases, some new players will enter the game with some pretty interesting proposals.

Yeah. No doubt that the new Sutton will become the star of downtown (only for now). Healthy competition is going to stimulate better development.

I wonder if this applies to the new residence. Will TNS residence increase downtown apartment/condo competition (teamed up with 300 main, 390 and so on)?As people with more spending power likely prefer theses finer living places, I think the owners of these relatively old residence buildings will start to get worried.

[buzzg]

I’ve heard that the owner of Fairmont has no interest in major Renos or expansion. The person I heard I from who’s close to them said they think they’d sooner find a new banner to fly (should Fairmont not be happy with the property in future) then expand or do a major Reno.

Of course this is not a hard fact, but they are close to the situation.

[esquire]

^ What can you really do with the Fairmont? It's old, but not old enough to trade on that vintage Fort Garry Hotel style charm. As with the Delta and Radisson, it's a late 60s/early 70s hotel that would be pretty tough if not impossible to bring into the modern era. The rooms are nice, but they aren't really all that luxurious by today's standards.

In some respects turning it into a Sheraton or some other respectable flag that happens to be a step below Fairmont would probably be a logical next step, whenever that happens.

[Wpg_Guy]

New page.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ What can you really do with the Fairmont? It's old, but not old enough to trade on that vintage Fort Garry Hotel style charm. As with the Delta and Radisson, it's a late 60s/early 70s hotel that would be pretty tough if not impossible to bring into the modern era. The rooms are nice, but they aren't really all that luxurious by today's standards.

In some respects turning it into a Sheraton or some other respectable flag that happens to be a step below Fairmont would probably be a logical next step, whenever that happens.

Totally agree – something under the Marriott–Starwood banner would be ideal. Still sorely missing from downtown. It's too bad that Fairmont never got the Fort Garry... I just can't really see a brand new modern build happening here with a Fairmont flag. Think you'd sooner see Delta build new and Fairmont take over there haha. All their Canadian properties are either historic properties or massive mountain resorts – the only newer modern buildings they have are in Vancouver and Montreal.

[Tyler19944]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ What can you really do with the Fairmont? It's old, but not old enough to trade on that vintage Fort Garry Hotel style charm. As with the Delta and Radisson, it's a late 60s/early 70s hotel that would be pretty tough if not impossible to bring into the modern era. The rooms are nice, but they aren't really all that luxurious by today's standards.

In some respects turning it into a Sheraton or some other respectable flag that happens to be a step below Fairmont would probably be a logical next step, whenever that happens.

I'm not really sure about the interior of the buildings, that could take a little more creativity, but the exteriors could definitely use a major renovation, something similar to the redesigned 360 Main. I don't know if its just me, but when I see an exterior of the hotel and it looks dated and tired, it lessens my desire to want to stay there.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Tyler19944

I'm not really sure about the interior of the buildings, that could take a little more creativity, but the exteriors could definitely use a major renovation, something similar to the redesigned 360 Main. I don't know if its just me, but when I see an exterior of the hotel and it looks dated and tired, it lessens my desire to want to stay there.

Yup – especially true when you consider Fairmont is one of the top regarded hotel brands in the world. They're probably embarrassed it's even in their portfolio – but it probably does quite well for them considering for years (and still) it's been really the only "luxury" business hotel in Winnipeg aside from recently the Delta joining. It probably has the most (or close to the most) conference space of any hotel here.

[Andy6]

There are circa-1970 hotels with concrete exteriors all over the world. Why is the Fairmont Winnipeg any more embarrassing then all the similar-looking hotels in downtown Toronto? I agree that they don't look like they were built last week but I'm not sure that that's a big deal if the interior is nice. People are mostly motivated by their rewards programs anyway -- not sure how that works with something like Sutton Place.

[Tyler19944]

Originally Posted by Andy6

There are circa-1970 hotels with concrete exteriors all over the world. Why is the Fairmont Winnipeg any more embarrassing then all the similar-looking hotels in downtown Toronto? I agree that they don't look like they were built last week but I'm not sure that that's a big deal if the interior is nice. People are mostly motivated by their rewards programs anyway -- not sure how that works with something like Sutton Place.

You're right about Delta, their hotels aren't necessarily marvels exteriorly, I just thought it would be a chance to really make itself apart of the new surroundings.

On the other hand, Fairmonts hotel portfolio in Canada are all really nice exteriorly, so it wouldn't be too unrealistic for them to try to update Winnipegs to match the rest of the hotels.

[DavefromSt.Vital]

Almost all of the big hotel chains are now "asset lite". i.e. They don't own actual hotels, they just set the brand standards, supply the booking tools like the website, the call centre, etc. Local groups build and own the hotels. The local groups control whether they renovate to meet what their "flag" (brand) is doing or go to something else.

Accor bought Fairmont Raffles to get some aspirational properties for their Europe-centric chain. The ever-shrinking Radisson portfolio was hampered by the original ownership group's dithering re: succession planning. It is now owned by the second Chinese conglomerate in a row, Jin Jiang. Delta was bought by Marriott in a minor deal before they bought Starwood. It is now their oddball brand (Like Hilton's Doubletree, for Marriott to be a Delta it can't be Flag X because it is missing...)

For all of these, if the local group wants to pay for the renovations it can be done. The Fairmont Queen Elizabeth (a giant concrete semi-modern hotel in Montreal) closed for over a year to renovate to current standards.

Just to bring it back to semi-on topic. If Northlands wanted to pick up a flag of one of the major chains they could do so instantly.

[Biff]

The Delta just completed a $10 million refresh a year and a half ago. They should be as current as it gets for the Delta chain.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Andy6

There are circa-1970 hotels with concrete exteriors all over the world. Why is the Fairmont Winnipeg any more embarrassing then all the similar-looking hotels in downtown Toronto? I agree that they don't look like they were built last week but I'm not sure that that's a big deal if the interior is nice. People are mostly motivated by their rewards programs anyway -- not sure how that works with something like Sutton Place.

Agreed.

It's not like people are going to avoid these hotels if they judge it based on the exterior that looks like a Soviet-era building. Hell, I bet some hotels that were built during the Soviet era in Europe have way more luxurious rooms than some of the hotel rooms in Winnipeg.

No pun intended, but these "sleeper" hotels that we have in Winnipeg with the Delta and Radisson, could be our best kept secrets if they keep it maintained, and if they decide to do so, update the rooms from time-to-time.

[The Unknown Poster]

isnt the NHL/NHLPA deal that they stay in Starwood properties unless there is no 5 Star Starwood available and then they stay in whatever 5 star (or closest to it) is available?

I would have thought the TNS project would want to ensure they get all the NHL/PA business....

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

isnt the NHL/NHLPA deal that they stay in Starwood properties unless there is no 5 Star Starwood available and then they stay in whatever 5 star (or closest to it) is available?

I would have thought the TNS project would want to ensure they get all the NHL/PA business....

It's specifically Westin, not just any Starwood property. I'd imagine they'll switch from Fairmont to Sutton Place when it opens.

If we ever get a Westin here like was proposed for P&M, they'll have to stay there.