Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

can you guys take the extending Canada Line extension to the fantasy/insanity thread?

It was NEVER designed to be extended and it will NEVER be extended. Ladner and Tsswwassen has a population of 21112 and 20933 respectively. If you seriously think it's worth building over stretches of ALR to serve not even 50k population, you need a huge reality check.

Originally Posted by s211

THANK YOU.

Any politician bringing that topic up is so full of hot air that I'm surprised they don't float away. That, and they're trying to come up with nonsense arguments to support the NDPs plan to shelve the bridge. Follow the political affiliations of the politicians making the most noise against the bridge and surprise surprise...

finally; someone is in reality.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm not advocating this extension any time soon, but it is pretty funny how many people insist on a 10 lane bridge, minimum, yet also insist there isn't enough demand for rail transit.

There isn’t enough for rail transit, and even when there is, a commuter rail system will be the far superior choice than extending the Canada Line (even the idea of doing so makes me laugh inside) even with that stupid mall in place.

The thing is, there is enough demand right now to justify building an 8 lane bridge that serves both general traffic and a rapid bus system. (Ever heard of killing two birds with one stone?)

Especially given the transit and road parameters of the areas being serviced.

Again:

Tunnel reaching end of life
Current state of highway a hodgepodge mess of Jerry rigged bandaid solutions (most notably the counter flow and shoulder / “bus lanes”
Current counter flow is three general lanes in one direction
No hazardous goods in tunnel
No pedestrian or bike access in tunnel
Major link between border, city, ferry, and industrial areas
Tunnel is not up to current seismic standards
Vast expanses of ALR and river separating small pockets of populated centers
Surge flow patterns from ferry
Two terminal points for transit (ferry and White Rock)

Factor all those together and... a single new bridge and upgraded highway that can accommodate both general traffic (industrial traffic) and a rapid bus system is the only logical conclusion to all of these issues.

Seriously, what do those who think we can extend the Canada seriously think can be done? The Canada Line already branches at Bridgeport, single branch branches again before ferry, would likely involve around 50 km of guideway (plus a bridge larger than the Sky Bridge) to access both the ferries and White Rock, would likely only service less than 10 stations (at best), complicated scheduling and train timing, etc... while at the same time the George Massey Tunnel would sltill need to be replaced.

Could not think of a more bullshit way to waste money than that.

And for the record, I don’t think that Skytrain should be extended beyond Langley. Abbotsford and Chilliwack would also be better served by a rapid bus or heavy commuter rail system

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Not to mention given the corridor (large river crossing, vast expanses of ALR, surge passenger flow from the ferries, and the sheer distance of more than 30km to the eventual terminus, White Rock) is far more suitable for rapid bus / commuter rail systems.

Almost exactly what this project entailed with the direct bus system to Bridgeport Station... hmmm.

*IF* the Canada Line is ever extended, it will be to Steveston and that is it.

Wish this silly conversation that pops up about extending the Canada Line south of Richmond would stop. It is a dead end idea that will never happen and the logistics are competely illlgical.

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

why are we even talking about this absurdity? jeez people. get real and keep it to the fantasies. this is about the bridge and the public report that was buried.

http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canada-line-skytrain-richmond-tsawwassen

One south of Fraser mayor wants to see a form of rail rapid transit, perhaps SkyTrain’s Canada Line, extended across the provincial government’s new George Massey Bridge and to Tsawwassen.
Lois Jackson, the Mayor of Delta, says such an extension would be “natural” considering the current underserved passenger demand and the anticipated future growth in Delta. The potential growth from developments spearheaded by the Tsawwassen First Nation also plays into the equation, as well as the need to connect the Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal, BC Ferries’ busiest terminal, to rail rapid transit.

Like minds speak alike.



Ok, no, but seriously, the only realistic Skytrain to Delta is to North Delta via Scott Rd.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Are they? We have a Ferry Terminal and now a giant mall out there, with tons of development on the drawing board. It wouldn't be the worst idea we've seen. It makes more sense than Skytrain continuing east beyond Langley.

I suggested extending the Skytrain to Langley Hospital (Murrayville), a mere 3.6km from Langley Centre, which was too apparently a bad idea.

At least Murrayville has the hospital, WC Blair, the nearby Salmon R. Uplands, and the Township School Board office, I would still say a limited extension past Langley would have some merit.

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

can you guys take the extending Canada Line extension to the fantasy/insanity thread?

It was NEVER designed to be extended and it will NEVER be extended.

Not even to Steveston?

Originally Posted by Metro-One

There isn’t enough for rail transit, and even when there is, a commuter rail system will be the far superior choice than extending the Canada Line (even the idea of doing so makes me laugh inside) even with that stupid mall in place.

The thing is, there is enough demand right now to justify building an 8 lane bridge that serves both general traffic and a rapid bus system. (Ever heard of killing two birds with one stone?)

Especially given the transit and road parameters of the areas being serviced.

Again:

Tunnel reaching end of life
Current state of highway a hodgepodge mess of Jerry rigged bandaid solutions (most notably the counter flow and shoulder / “bus lanes”
Current counter flow is three general lanes in one direction
No hazardous goods in tunnel
No pedestrian or bike access in tunnel
Major link between border, city, ferry, and industrial areas
Tunnel is not up to current seismic standards
Vast expanses of ALR and river separating small pockets of populated centers
Surge flow patterns from ferry
Two terminal points for transit (ferry and White Rock)

Factor all those together and... a single new bridge and upgraded highway that can accommodate both general traffic (industrial traffic) and a rapid bus system is the only logical conclusion to all of these issues.

Seriously, what do those who think we can extend the Canada seriously think can be done? The Canada Line already branches at Bridgeport, single branch branches again before ferry, would likely involve around 50 km of guideway (plus a bridge larger than the Sky Bridge) to access both the ferries and White Rock, would likely only service less than 10 stations (at best), complicated scheduling and train timing, etc... while at the same time the George Massey Tunnel would sltill need to be replaced.

Could not think of a more bullshit way to waste money than that.

And for the record, I don’t think that Skytrain should be extended beyond Langley. Abbotsford and Chilliwack would also be better served by a rapid bus or heavy commuter rail system

A Commuter Rail would have to handle the problem with the limited grades creating very long approach lengths...

Is there actually demand for Richmond-Delta Freight Service, let alone enough for an expensive commuter rail tunnel?

Skytrain can at least probably run on the bridge deck.



The best solution would be not to move the transit to the Ferry, but to move the ferry to the transit, IMO. Move the Ferry to Iona, save off some time (up to 1 hour with a Gabriola Island Terminal), and connect it to the Airport Branch of the Canada Line.

[Sheba]

Massey Tunnel will not be replaced with 10-lane bridge, report suggests

The B.C. NDP appears to have taken a 10-lane bridge off the table as an option to replace the Massey Tunnel, which is one of the worst traffic bottlenecks in the province.

B.C. Transportation Minister Claire Trevena met with Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie and city staff earlier this month to discuss the future of the tunnel, which links the communities of Delta and Richmond.

A report that recently went to council suggests the province has no interest in building a new crossing with ten lanes.

"The Minister advised that any future crossing improvement option would not include a 10-lane bridge," the report stated.

"The Ministry recognizes the significant negative impacts that the scale of such a project would have on the host communities, particularly for Richmond."

The B.C. Liberals started construction last year on a $3.5-billion dollar bridge.

When the NDP took power, the project was put on pause and engineer Stan Cowdell was hired to examine new options to upgrade or replace the tunnel.

...

Cowdell completed his study several months ago but it still has not been made public.

"The Minister received the report in June, and it is under consideration along with options for next steps," the Ministry of Transportation said in an emailed statement.

"Minister Trevena is discussing its findings with Metro Mayors before making the independent review — and government's next steps — public before the end of the year."

...

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by fredinno

The best solution would be not to move the transit to the Ferry, but to move the ferry to the transit, IMO. Move the Ferry to Iona, save off some time (up to 1 hour with a Gabriola Island Terminal), and connect it to the Airport Branch of the Canada Line.

How would the Airport spur get over to Iona from its current terminus?

[p78hub]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Massey Tunnel will not be replaced with 10-lane bridge, report suggests

Endless studies, reviews, and 'considerations' seems pretty par for the course with the BC NDP.

I honestly don't care if it's 10 lanes or 8 lanes or whatever as long as it's tangibly better than what currently exists. Just build the damn thing already.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

How would the Airport spur get over to Iona from its current terminus?

You can't - it would have to be a spur/branch from about Templeton Station.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

You can't - it would have to be a spur/branch from about Templeton Station.

I'm guessing that'd screw with planes on the north runway?

[osirisboy]

What are the "significant negative impacts" to Richmond of the proposed bridge?

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

What are the "significant negative impacts" to Richmond of the proposed bridge?

nothing. it's pure bullshit. The bridge included extensive upgrades to Hwy 99 from Steveston to Oak St Bridge. Richmond has lot to gain, actually.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

nothing. it's pure bullshit. The bridge included extensive upgrades to Hwy 99 from Steveston to Oak St Bridge. Richmond has lot to gain, actually.

And Brodie still doesn't want the new bridge. He's basically Corrigan-lite.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Firebrand

And Brodie still doesn't want the new bridge. He's basically Corrigan-lite.

The way Buchanan and Cote and Richard Stewart are acting, it seems that particular crown is still up for grabs. (#WarOfTheFourMayors)

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Massey Tunnel will not be replaced with 10-lane bridge, report suggests

Can we at least get an 8-lane?

Does someone have to die in a car crash in the narrow tunnel for a replacement to be approved?

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I'm guessing that'd screw with planes on the north runway?

Would it? I mean, as long as it isn't higher than the Canada Post Building @ YVR, you should be fine. Templeton Outlet Mall is there too, right under the flight path of the N. Runway.

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

nothing. it's pure bullshit. The bridge included extensive upgrades to Hwy 99 from Steveston to Oak St Bridge. Richmond has lot to gain, actually.

"But tha traffic"

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Can we at least get an 8-lane?

Does someone have to die in a car crash in the narrow tunnel for a replacement to be approved?

Let's be real here. Even if horrendous accidents happen, nothing will happen.

That's politics.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Let's be real here. Even if horrendous accidents happen, nothing will happen.

That's politics.

Several of these have already happened in the past.

Ron.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Let's be real here. Even if horrendous accidents happen, nothing will happen.

That's politics.

The NDP wants nothing to do with the bridge (because, you know, the BC Liberals were involved), and Brodie is still acting like a jackass for not wanting it. Brodie can go fuck himself for not making any useful contributions to the region. He's not Corrigan bad, but he's up there.

[libtard]

Can you imagine I-5 expansions being discussed with a “mayors council”. This is a joke

[casper]

Originally Posted by libtard

Can you imagine I-5 expansions being discussed with a “mayors council”. This is a joke

Yes, I can. Mayors in the US have a tendency to be in favor of fixing traffic problems, especially if senior levels of government are willing to pay.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/09/18/t...is-cheerleading-for-a-highway-expansion/

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Let's be real here. Even if horrendous accidents happen, nothing will happen.

That's politics.

Yea look at Pattullo with all its deaths in the past. That piece of shit still isn't replaced.

[Firebrand]

Originally Posted by flipper316

Yea look at Pattullo with all its deaths in the past. That piece of shit still isn't replaced.

You can blame New West for whining of getting a newer bridge. Seriously, the mayors here have a hatred for bridges.