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  #6341  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2018, 10:10 PM
s211 s211 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I just did a quick search and just about everything on The Straight about LRT is written by the same person...
That's only because the other 99.9999% writers for the Strait have been seconded to write about pot.
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  #6342  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2018, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I just did a quick search and just about everything on The Straight about LRT is written by the same person...
Lol, ever consider these articles to be some of the stealthiest reverse-psychology propaganda pieces against LRT? You might not be giving the writer enough credit .
     
     
  #6343  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 3:42 AM
BirchTrain BirchTrain is offline
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However, zwei does raise a concern that Bombardier Rail does not have Innovia Metro on its website. Don’t exactly know why. The only metro rail technology listed is their Movia series of metros.
I have found out that the Innovia Metro has been rebranded as Movia (https://rail.bombardier.com/en/solutions-and-technologies/urban/metro.html). Scroll down, click "Projects," and use the arrows on the page to navigate to the SkyTrain project.

Quote:
Bombardier delivered 28 MOVIA metro (formerly known as INNOVIA metro 300) trains to increase capacity on the Vancouver SkyTrain network. Bombardier was the turnkey supplier of the original fully automated metro system for the City of Vancouver in December 1985. When it first opened, the SkyTrain system (known now as Expo Line) was 21.4 km long and connected 15 stations.
Looks like Innovia is now only monorail and people movers.
     
     
  #6344  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 8:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BirchTrain View Post
I have found out that the Innovia Metro has been rebranded as Movia (https://rail.bombardier.com/en/solutions-and-technologies/urban/metro.html). Scroll down, click "Projects," and use the arrows on the page to navigate to the SkyTrain project.



Looks like Innovia is now only monorail and people movers.
Rebranded = discontinued? That's dumb, even for zwei.
     
     
  #6345  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 8:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I just did a quick search and just about everything on The Straight about LRT is written by the same person...
Quote:
Originally Posted by s211 View Post
That's only because the other 99.9999% writers for the Strait have been seconded to write about pot.
I thought that was what the Tyee was for...
     
     
  #6346  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 9:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
LRT to the valley on the old interurban through Surrey and out to ABB/ Chilliwack would not be feasible.

A Quick History:

BC Hydro took over all the operations of the BC Electric back on the 60's including the interurban line out to Chilliwack. In the 1970's a line was built ( by CPrail? ) from the CN mainline just east of Fort Langley to connect with the BC Hydro line at 232nd to enable coal trains to reach Roberts Bank coal terminal. The spur line west of 184th street is owned by BC Rail with trackage rights to CN, CP, and BNSF.

This is where things get tricky. The corridor, which runs from 184th Street in Surrey, to 232nd Street in Langley, was previously owned and operated by BC Hydro until 1988, when BC Hydro sold the tracks and the equipment to CP Rail. BC Hydro still owns the land that the tracks are on, and in the 1988 agreement, BC Hydro reserved the right to operate a railway, including passenger trains, on the tracks at no cost.

The tracks that the SRY operate on go from New West through Surrey until Cloverdale, and then under operating rights from CP, continue to 232nd street where they rejoin the SRY tracks to Chilliwack.

In order to run an LRT along this whole stretch, it would take operating agreements from several parties which I doubt would come easily, especially east of 184th st because it is very busy already. This is why the FVHR only goes as far as Cloverdale. Also, the tracks through Surrey would need a major upgrade to reach LRT standards.
It's not LRT, it's commuter rail. There's enough space to build a 2nd line through Cloverdale- the section where the SRY tracks merge pretty much all have enough space for another (single) track.

I mean, BC Hydro did still maintain passenger rail rights to the land, and the land itself. In the end, the rail operators are still subservient to its demands, at least on the SRY corridor.

The issue, as always is money and will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
Originally Posted by ilikeredheads View Post
WCE has no track priority. It's using CN's tracks where freight trains are the boss. Any time there's delay for WCE you can bet it's caused by having to wait for one of the freight trains to clear. Translink couldn't improve WCE service even if they wanted to because they'll be at the mercy of CN.

Our entire rail network in Lower Mainland is designed for freight, even then the infrastructure is showing its age. New West bridge is a HUGE bottle neck and it's needs to be replaced and needs to be double track. Running passenger rail on a freight network will run into all sorts of logistical problems and affect reliability. WCE is an oddity and it only exists because CN allows it to exist.



WCE runs on CP Rail trackage, not CN. CN is on the south side of the Fraser River.
I was referring to extending the WCE to the Fraser Valley, which would require upgrades to the Westminister Bridge, barring transfer to either a Newton or Langley City Skytrain Station.
     
     
  #6347  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 7:04 PM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
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Originally Posted by fredinno View Post
It's not LRT, it's commuter rail. There's enough space to build a 2nd line through Cloverdale- the section where the SRY tracks merge pretty much all have enough space for another (single) track.

I mean, BC Hydro did still maintain passenger rail rights to the land, and the land itself. In the end, the rail operators are still subservient to its demands, at least on the SRY corridor.

The issue, as always is money and will.



I was referring to extending the WCE to the Fraser Valley, which would require upgrades to the Westminister Bridge, barring transfer to either a Newton or Langley City Skytrain Station.
The New West bridge is owned by the Feds but maintained by CN. The bridge and the approaches to it have been upgraded several times but so far there has not been much noise about double tracking it. In the railway world, it is all about value for money spent. If it were not a marine bridge, it probably would have been double tracked years ago.
     
     
  #6348  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BirchTrain View Post
I have found out that the Innovia Metro has been rebranded as Movia (https://rail.bombardier.com/en/solutions-and-technologies/urban/metro.html). Scroll down, click "Projects," and use the arrows on the page to navigate to the SkyTrain project.



Looks like Innovia is now only monorail and people movers.
I guess, since MOVIA now have automated option, and INNOVIA Metro now offers conventional motor rather than LIM... there's just no reason to keep it as separate products anymore?

So officially, Vancouver SkyTrain now uses the train product as Toronto "Rocket", Singapore Circle Line, and SF BART.
     
     
  #6349  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
The New West bridge is owned by the Feds but maintained by CN. The bridge and the approaches to it have been upgraded several times but so far there has not been much noise about double tracking it. In the railway world, it is all about value for money spent. If it were not a marine bridge, it probably would have been double tracked years ago.

Thanks for the information.


I think the issue is as much lack of double-tracking, as the movable span.

It would have to be an entirely new bridge at this point, which is probably why nothing has been built to replace it- the ports are concentrated in Roberts Bank, now.
     
     
  #6350  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2018, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by nname View Post
I guess, since MOVIA now have automated option, and INNOVIA Metro now offers conventional motor rather than LIM... there's just no reason to keep it as separate products anymore?

So officially, Vancouver SkyTrain now uses the train product as Toronto "Rocket", Singapore Circle Line, and SF BART.
And now, we sell them all on the benefits of LIMs (sinister laugh)...
     
     
  #6351  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 1:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
The New West bridge is owned by the Feds but maintained by CN. The bridge and the approaches to it have been upgraded several times but so far there has not been much noise about double tracking it. In the railway world, it is all about value for money spent. If it were not a marine bridge, it probably would have been double tracked years ago.
Can it be bypassed while a 2 double track span is installed?
     
     
  #6352  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 2:59 AM
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No other bridges can handle the daily use of the current bridge enough to be considered a bypass. You need to build the new bridge adjacent and on the day/night of the opening hold trains long enough to cut the old rails and weld in the new span. Think how the handled the New Port Mann Bridge.
     
     
  #6353  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 6:00 AM
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Originally Posted by nname View Post
I guess, since MOVIA now have automated option, and INNOVIA Metro now offers conventional motor rather than LIM... there's just no reason to keep it as separate products anymore?

So officially, Vancouver SkyTrain now uses the train product as Toronto "Rocket", Singapore Circle Line, and SF BART.
SkyBART

So does Line 3 Scarborough technically use the Toronto Rocket now?
     
     
  #6354  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2018, 9:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MIPS View Post
No other bridges can handle the daily use of the current bridge enough to be considered a bypass. You need to build the new bridge adjacent and on the day/night of the opening hold trains long enough to cut the old rails and weld in the new span. Think how the handled the New Port Mann Bridge.
The problem is not that rail traffic is fighting for space on the bridge, it's the marine traffic. Marine Traffic takes priority and when a tug or large vessel signals the controller, all rail traffic is halted. It could be open 30 minutes or so depending on the circumstances. That creates a bottleneck at times. I am not sure a double track bridge will improve things much.
     
     
  #6355  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2018, 12:44 AM
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https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/city-of-surreys-debt-nowhere-near-mccallums-figure-of-514m/

I mean, we all know what's happening here. Current Mayor and Council try to claim that City is in massive debt due to the ineptitude of previous government . Puts all infrastructure spending and plans into limbo.

My gut is telling that we will see massive cuts in public spending. Also expect any transit plans to be shelved indefinitely.
     
     
  #6356  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2018, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by logicbomb View Post
https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/city-of-surreys-debt-nowhere-near-mccallums-figure-of-514m/

I mean, we all know what's happening here. Current Mayor and Council try to claim that City is in massive debt due to the ineptitude of previous government . Puts all infrastructure spending and plans into limbo.

My gut is telling that we will see massive cuts in public spending. Also expect any transit plans to be shelved indefinitely.
Sky is falling??

Please explain how this would shelve the transit expansion plans... which Surrey does not pay for out of its own finances?
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  #6357  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2018, 2:59 AM
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Originally Posted by logicbomb View Post
It shouldn't affect transit. Translink and transit projects are funded independently from the municipalities. The mayors council have to approve the funding sources but other than that's they don't deal with transit funds. The only things that it could affect would be the bus stop furniture since the municipalities are responsible for that and bus priority measures since I believe it is usual coordinated with the other road work.
     
     
  #6358  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2018, 3:50 AM
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Googling "Surrey capital projects" gets you $167 million in road/heating/waterworks upgrades and $147 million in classroom replacements. Nothing about SkyTrain or light rail or buses.
     
     
  #6359  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2018, 4:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
The problem is not that rail traffic is fighting for space on the bridge, it's the marine traffic. Marine Traffic takes priority and when a tug or large vessel signals the controller, all rail traffic is halted. It could be open 30 minutes or so depending on the circumstances. That creates a bottleneck at times. I am not sure a double track bridge will improve things much.
Is there a way to get a high enough bridge in that area to prevent this??
     
     
  #6360  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2018, 4:39 AM
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
Is there a way to get a high enough bridge in that area to prevent this??
I don't believe so. I seem to recall a previous discussion mentioned that a bridge high enough to allow marine traffic to pass would require something like a 3km long ramp on either side to allow the trains to reach the required height to cross the bridge.
     
     
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