Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[J.OT13]

As per hwy418's response, $500 million would be way to high, resulting in either no bids or greatly inflated submissions in order to compensate for the added financial risk. Our fixed price contracts are not doubt already costing us more, but at least we are protected from any price overrun. Adding such a high penalty for delays would not be worth it just to save a year and a bit.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Then you would have no bidders as the financial risk of not meeting the schedule would be too high. $500M penalty would mean no profit, so there would be zero incentive to submit a proposal.

Not true, government contracts are big enough that it's still worth the risk. Don't forget after the line is done RTG has to maintenance contract for 30 years worth 3 billion dollars on top of the 2 plus billion they are being paid to build line. So the sooner they finish they better for them.

[roger1818]

Better than the same fixed penalty for being 1 day or 1 year late would be to have a time based fee to cover costs to the city. It shouldn't matter if it is late as long as the taxpayers aren't on the hook for the added costs for it being late.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Based on the behavior of RTG 5 and 10 million would still not be high enough to force them to finish the project on time like they agreed to. I set it 500 million because they would definitely feel forced to finish on time even if that means paying employees overtime.

If the penalty is higher than the cost to RTG then there is reason to finish earlier. Right now the cost is higher than the penalty which is why they are in no rush to finish.

Where do you get the impression that nobody is rushing? Are they not working at least 2 shifts per day, every day? I think we're just in the normal construction schedule, which is what was originally proposed before it was shortened.

It's a miracle it's as far ahead as it is at this point, what with all the unfortunate 'accidents'. These very large projects take time.

Patience. The final steps come together very very quickly.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Where do you get the impression that nobody is rushing? Are they not working at least 2 shifts per day, every day? I think we're just in the normal construction schedule, which is what was originally proposed before it was shortened.

It's a miracle it's as far ahead as it is at this point, what with all the unfortunate 'accidents'. These very large projects take time.

Patience. The final steps come together very very quickly.

I have been constantly observing how fast they have been working every day I have passed the stations on my way to work. They have definitely slowed down their work this year compared to last year so their is no reason they should not be done except they have cut work hours which in turns dumps the costs onto the ottawa taxpayer via continued bus detours.

I agree with roger, the ottawa taxpayers should be compensated for at least that

[OTSkyline]

I'm actually digging the "O"s

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Not true, government contracts are big enough that it's still worth the risk. Don't forget after the line is done RTG has to maintenance contract for 30 years worth 3 billion dollars on top of the 2 plus billion they are being paid to build line. So the sooner they finish they better for them.

I would not want to be a shareholder of that company. The $2.1B fixed-price contract includes the 30-year maintenance agreement.

[J.OT13]

From Watson's Twitter.

Bayview


Blair


uOttawa


Tremblay


https://twitter.com/JimWatsonOttawa/status/1064954920036528128

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I'm actually digging the "O"s

Yeah i'm really enjoying the red lollipops. I think they look pretty sharp lit up at night.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Yeah i'm really enjoying the red lollipops. I think they look pretty sharp lit up at night.

Me too. Whoever did the design language for this project did a lot better than the city usually does.

My only wish is that they incorporate some solar or green roofs at these stations.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by hwy418

I would not want to be a shareholder of that company. The $2.1B fixed-price contract includes the 30-year maintenance agreement.

are you sure about that?

[Truenorth00]

Yeah. $500 million is expensive. The insurance premiums the contractor would have to incur for project risk would negate any profit. Or would inflate bids substantially.

Penalties need to be set high enough to encourage completion. So higher than say the cost of running overtime. But low enough so that competition isn't discouraged. Where that line lies, I don't know. But clearly $1 million hasn't worked. I would think more like 1% of project costs + all diversion costs beyond the deadline.

Unforeseen delay? Negotiate a new and somewhat generous deadline. But no change in penalties. Once you commit to it, you gotta get moving.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yeah. $500 million is expensive. The insurance premiums the contractor would have to incur for project risk would negate any profit. Or would inflate bids substantially.

Penalties need to be set high enough to encourage completion. So higher than say the cost of running overtime. But low enough so that competition isn't discouraged. Where that line lies, I don't know. But clearly $1 million hasn't worked. I would think more like 1% of project costs + all diversion costs beyond the deadline.

Unforeseen delay? Negotiate a new and somewhat generous deadline. But no change in penalties. Once you commit to it, you gotta get moving.

I can agree with this

[Baybreeze12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yeah. $500 million is expensive. The insurance premiums the contractor would have to incur for project risk would negate any profit. Or would inflate bids substantially.

Penalties need to be set high enough to encourage completion. So higher than say the cost of running overtime. But low enough so that competition isn't discouraged. Where that line lies, I don't know. But clearly $1 million hasn't worked. I would think more like 1% of project costs + all diversion costs beyond the deadline.

Unforeseen delay? Negotiate a new and somewhat generous deadline. But no change in penalties. Once you commit to it, you gotta get moving.

I know that in California they sometimes use a sliding bonus/penalty scale for time-sensitive infrastructure work like road and bridge refurbishment. For every day (or hour, depending on the immediate need) before the agreed completion date the job is finished, the contractor gets a bonus. Conversely, for every day/hour behind schedule, they are penalized a certain amount.

Though I could see this leading to short-term decisions and rushed work, it might be a better way of enforcing timely construction than a one-shot penalty.

[sseguin]

The City of Ottawa has just shared with media a Confederation Line Quarterly Update (Q3 – 2018).

Details on the status of all stations, the guideway and track, the trains, as well as upcoming testing, commissioning and beyond are included. Also mentioned is Stage2LRT procurement and status in the lower half.

https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/memo-o-train-confederation-line-quarterly-update-q3-2018

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Baybreeze12

I know that in California they sometimes use a sliding bonus/penalty scale for time-sensitive infrastructure work like road and bridge refurbishment. For every day (or hour, depending on the immediate need) before the agreed completion date the job is finished, the contractor gets a bonus. Conversely, for every day/hour behind schedule, they are penalized a certain amount.

Though I could see this leading to short-term decisions and rushed work, it might be a better way of enforcing timely construction than a one-shot penalty.

I am in California at the moment. Have been here for the last two years. Coming home in January.

I am so not impressed with how long they take to get basic roadworks or major infrastructure works done here. And they don't have snow to contend with. Our guys definitely work to a tighter schedule.

[Kitchissippi]

One hour parking in front of a subway entrance? Surely this is going to change when they open the line!

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

One hour parking in front of a subway entrance? Surely this is going to change when they open the line!

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it.

[sseguin]

I'm pretty sure the STO plan will call for the buses to loop around by Lyon to Slater, to Kent and down Queen and back up Lyon to head to Gatineau.

So probably not for the parking. Although the road is just one lane each way so hopefully it doesn't cause issues when buses are slow boarding. We will just have to wait and see.

See the map lower down on this page:
http://www.sto.ca/index.php?id=696&L=en

As per their writeup:

The routes in downtown Ottawa will be modified gradually to accommodate connections with the O Train:

Currently, all STO routes run along Wellington.
Starting January 2, 2019, route 20 will serve the Confederation Line's Lyon station. Route 400 will provide a connection to the OC Transpo system on Rideau and Wellington in the Hull direction and the National Defence building on Carrière. Routes 34, 55 and 59 are another option in the Terrasses de la Chaudière direction.
Later in 2019, all STO routes that go to Ottawa will serve Lyon station.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by roger1818

In the time laps video there are a bunch of similar signs ranging from 35 to 80. Sometimes there would be two numbers on top of each other (not sure why that would be). They don't follow the standard used by CN as shown below:


Michael Berry 06/14/2015

(the top number is for LRC equipment only, the middle is for passenger trains, and bottom is for freight trains)

Good Day.

a follow-up..... at 30 seconds on the video, just west of the Belfast MSF tunnel, and just east of the eastern Tremblay pass, is a temp signpost in the middle, saying "APPROACHING END OF TEST TRACK".

These definitely appear to be temp signs of various info, and temp speed limits. I suggest the over-and-under number posts are two different speed limits at this post point, the greater one for certified LRVs, and the lesser one for not-yet-certified LRVs. Overall, they seem to represent temp limits, as to me they do not appear to be permanent posts nor permanent limits.

I also submit that this video seems comparatively old at this point in time. It also appears to have various edit splices in the stream/flow of the video.

IMHO.

BTW... @ roger1818 , your post does not seem to have a link to your reference - I would indeed love to see it. Thx.