Cambie Corridor Updates

[LeftCoaster]

It's a pretty hot topic in the industry right now.

Margins are really thin on rental and the talk of additional rent increase regulations or even a rent freeze have shelved a lot of projects.

[officedweller]

Regent @ King Edward

By City of Rain Oct 21st:

Originally Posted by City Of Rain, post: 1388982, member: 70034

IMG_1604 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

IMG_1609 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

IMG_1611 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

IMG_1615 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

IMG_1643 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

***************

Cambie + King Edward

By City of Rain Oct 21st:

Originally Posted by City Of Rain, post: 1389579, member: 70034

IMG_1638 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

IMG_1645 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

IMG_1650 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

IMG_1652 by City Of Rain, on Flickr
IMG_1655 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

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Amber
633 West King Edward

By City of Rain Oct 21st:

Originally Posted by City Of Rain, post: 1389348, member: 70034

IMG_1633 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

IMG_1628 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

IMG_1621 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

IMG_1618 by City Of Rain, on Flickr

[Vin]

Amber looks and feels like modular housing.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Vin

Amber looks and feels like modular housing.

Lol ok well let's wait till it's finished first

[VanK]

Curious to know why this thread is in this Urban/Urban Design/heritage sub category.
Shouldn't this thread be in the main Vancouver development section?

[officedweller]

I think it started out as the Cambie Corridor Plan, then morphed as the projects actually got built in the corridor.

[Feathered Friend]

Originally Posted by officedweller

485 West 35th Ave.




https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applications/485w35thave/index.htm

Cambie Street Orphan Struggles with Several Issues, but Area Plan Failings Draw More Concern

485 West 35th Avenue
As six floor mid-rise buildings have not only become the new normal along Cambie Street, but have also gained complete community acceptance, some may wonder why we even bothered to attend this event last Thursday night. Originally, Darren drew the short straw to attend what would likely be a boring event, while I would go to Sir Matthew Begbie Elementary and learn why the new, seismically safe, school would be smaller than the original.

That plan died when Darren messaged me, telling me to stop by as there was nachos, salsa, and bruschetta available, which is a far better offering than the 7-11 cookies and boxed coffee that we would normally expect for a project this small in scale. Similarly, we would not expect as many people to have stopped by either, as I overheard the total at the end of the event was around 25, though maybe that was simply the result of holding an event at this busy community centre.

Interestingly, most of those that dropped in were not interested in the snacks or the project. Instead they chose to air their grievances over how the Cambie Corridor Plan did not allow for their homes to be bundled into a larger redevelopment along the scale of what was proposed at the nearby Oakridge Municipal Town Centre.

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2018/11/14...ut-area-plan-failings-draw-more-concern/

[Feathered Friend]

The Best on Cambie Street? Custom Built Mid-Rise Wins the Enthusiastic Support of the UDP

485 West 35th Avenue
When Hannah and I went to the open house for this proposal a couple a weeks ago, we both thought the Urban Design Panel might suggest some slight tweaks to the design. Despite the many events we’ve attended, and the countless UDP meetings I’ve covered, we were both completely wrong.

However, I did learn some new details about the project, like that the applicant chose to relocate some of the building’s massing in order to save a large Norwegian Maple at the corner of the laneway and 35th Avenue. Fortunately, that extra massing hasn’t resulted in any substantial increase in the size of the shadow the building will cast.

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2018/11/27...ins-the-enthusiastic-support-of-the-udp/

[LeftCoaster]

Save a Norwegian Maple?

Ugh.

Pull it down and plant something that isn't dead 8 months of the year.

[GenWhy?]

"However, I did learn some new details about the project, like that the applicant chose to relocate some of the building’s massing in order to save a large Norwegian Maple at the corner of the laneway and 35th Avenue. "

'Chose to' is a strong statement to make... forced to without allowing to proceed by City Staff more likely.

[whatnext]

Some interesting comments from one of the firms involved in Cambie Corridor construction in today's Globe & Mail:

....The city’s new plan for more duplexes is born out of the controversial idea that more supply soon leads to more affordable housing. The city saw significant density added along the Cambie Corridor, which had previously been detached houses. That new supply of housing turned into luxury units, many of them purchased by investors, says Paul Warwick, senior project manager of Performance Construction, a well-known company that has built multifamily housing along Cambie.

“Cambie Corridor is all about people investing money and holding,” he said in a recent interview. “You drive down Cambie and look at the finished there, and about a quarter of the buildings are occupied. The rest of them are empty. I could go on about that, but we are building buildings to sit empty. It’s stupid. You look at it and go, ‘What are we doing this for?' You read in the press that there’s not enough supply – that’s crazy. We are building more than we ever built. But a great amount of what we are building is being sidelined as an investment and people are playing the stock market. We have eight projects going right now. We are at full capacity. Supply? Not at all. It’s too much speculation. That’s my opinion.”...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-est...unintended-consequences-of-the-previous/

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Some interesting comments from one of the firms involved in Cambie Corridor construction in today's Globe & Mail:

....The city’s new plan for more duplexes is born out of the controversial idea that more supply soon leads to more affordable housing. The city saw significant density added along the Cambie Corridor, which had previously been detached houses. That new supply of housing turned into luxury units, many of them purchased by investors, says Paul Warwick, senior project manager of Performance Construction, a well-known company that has built multifamily housing along Cambie.

“Cambie Corridor is all about people investing money and holding,” he said in a recent interview. “You drive down Cambie and look at the finished there, and about a quarter of the buildings are occupied. The rest of them are empty. I could go on about that, but we are building buildings to sit empty. It’s stupid. You look at it and go, ‘What are we doing this for?' You read in the press that there’s not enough supply – that’s crazy. We are building more than we ever built. But a great amount of what we are building is being sidelined as an investment and people are playing the stock market. We have eight projects going right now. We are at full capacity. Supply? Not at all. It’s too much speculation. That’s my opinion.”...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-est...unintended-consequences-of-the-previous/

Intersting I thought most buildings are waiting for occupancy permits?

The empty homes tax numbers aren’t supporting the most places are empty investor owned theory. Not sure if a bunch of people lied or just many owners go unnoticed. I am involved with many buildings and often you never see anyone on the balconies or in the gym but during fire inspections you get 90%+ access indicating that they are there but just super quiet.

[SpongeG]

I saw a headline that says the city will make over $13 million from the empty home tax, so they don't really care of a big chunk of the new buildings sit empty as they make money if they are empty anyway. They don't seem that pressed to ensure housing gets occupied and is affordable.

[VanK]

Originally Posted by misher

Intersting I thought most buildings are waiting for occupancy permits?

The empty homes tax numbers aren’t supporting the most places are empty investor owned theory. Not sure if a bunch of people lied or just many owners go unnoticed. I am involved with many buildings and often you never see anyone on the balconies or in the gym but during fire inspections you get 90%+ access indicating that they are there but just super quiet.

This empty homes propaganda is overblown by the media and by the angry public. Even the City of Vancouver report tries to inflate the number by reporting Vacant + Exempt homes in their total. For instance the report states.

"Shaughnessy and the West End had the most properties that are vacant or exempt, according to the report, at 8% and 7%, respectively.

However the report shows that out of 186,043 properties in the city, 178,120 were occupied, 5,385 were exempt, and 2,583 were vacant."

Only 2,583 were vacant of 186,034 properties in Vancouver. That's only 1.38% vacant.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I saw a headline that says the city will make over $13 million from the empty home tax, so they don't really care of a big chunk of the new buildings sit empty as they make money if they are empty anyway. They don't seem that pressed to ensure housing gets occupied and is affordable.

I'm in favor of the EHT, but I think it's as far as the city should reasonably go to ensure "owners provide rental housing". They can use that $13M to subsidize other low income rentals, build the modular container homes, etc.

Actually it begs the question: If we get to a time where developers don't sell out properties before they are built, would a developer who has 10 units in a large complex unsold and empty be charged the tax? I'm guessing they would...

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by VanK

This empty homes propaganda is overblown by the media and by the angry public. Even the City of Vancouver report tries to inflate the number by reporting Vacant + Exempt homes in their total. For instance the report states.

"Shaughnessy and the West End had the most properties that are vacant or exempt, according to the report, at 8% and 7%, respectively.

However the report shows that out of 186,043 properties in the city, 178,120 were occupied, 5,385 were exempt, and 2,583 were vacant."

Only 2,583 were vacant of 186,034 properties in Vancouver. That's only 1.38% vacant.

We don't know how many properties were vacant. One category of exempt property is strata units where the rules don't allow rentals. So some of the 5,385 exempt units will be vacant. Anyone wanting to have a second home in the city, and avoid the vacant home tax, will presumably be looking for a unit in a strata that doesn't allow rentals.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm in favor of the EHT, but I think it's as far as the city should reasonably go to ensure "owners provide rental housing". They can use that $13M to subsidize other low income rentals, build the modular container homes, etc.

Actually it begs the question: If we get to a time where developers don't sell out properties before they are built, would a developer who has 10 units in a large complex unsold and empty be charged the tax? I'm guessing they would...

We may already be at that point. For example Wall's Shannon Mews project has been advertising "Hurry only 8 suites remaining" for months. Similarly the Maisonette townhomes across the street still have unsold units despite being occupied a while ago.

Reading the city's FAQ for developers the answer seems to be they are subject to EHT, but a possible loophole is mentioned right after:

Listing a property for sale or rent does not qualify it for exemption
- If a property was fit for occupancy but was unoccupied for more than 180 daysof the tax year, it will be considered vacant and the tax will apply.
- A property may be exempt from the tax if legal ownership of the property
changed during the tax year. In this case, the owner may have to provide a
title search or certificate of title showing the date that title was transferred to
support his/her property status declaration..
https://vancouver.ca/images/web/empty-homes-tax/developer-faq-empty-homes-tax-2017-05-31.pdf

Wouldn't that suggest a developer could transfer title to another legal entity they control to avoid the EHT while they continue to list it for sale?

Regardless, it would seem to help affordability if the developer drops the price to clear the last unsold units and avoid the hassle required to avoid the EHT.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by whatnext

We may already be at that point. For example Wall's Shannon Mews project has been advertising "Hurry only 8 suites remaining" for months. Similarly the Maisonette townhomes across the street still have unsold units despite being occupied a while ago.

Reading the city's FAQ for developers the answer seems to be they are subject to EHT, but a possible loophole is mentioned right after:

Listing a property for sale or rent does not qualify it for exemption
- If a property was fit for occupancy but was unoccupied for more than 180 daysof the tax year, it will be considered vacant and the tax will apply.
- A property may be exempt from the tax if legal ownership of the property
changed during the tax year. In this case, the owner may have to provide a
title search or certificate of title showing the date that title was transferred to
support his/her property status declaration..
https://vancouver.ca/images/web/empty-homes-tax/developer-faq-empty-homes-tax-2017-05-31.pdf

Wouldn't that suggest a developer could transfer title to another legal entity they control to avoid the EHT while they continue to list it for sale?

Regardless, it would seem to help affordability if the developer drops the price to clear the last unsold units and avoid the hassle required to avoid the EHT.

Wouldn't it also discourage development for the developers? If they have to pay cash if they can't sell units, that becomes a liability.

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

We may already be at that point. For example Wall's Shannon Mews project has been advertising "Hurry only 8 suites remaining" for months. Similarly the Maisonette townhomes across the street still have unsold units despite being occupied a while ago.

Reading the city's FAQ for developers the answer seems to be they are subject to EHT, but a possible loophole is mentioned right after:

Listing a property for sale or rent does not qualify it for exemption
- If a property was fit for occupancy but was unoccupied for more than 180 daysof the tax year, it will be considered vacant and the tax will apply.
- A property may be exempt from the tax if legal ownership of the property
changed during the tax year. In this case, the owner may have to provide a
title search or certificate of title showing the date that title was transferred to
support his/her property status declaration..
https://vancouver.ca/images/web/empty-homes-tax/developer-faq-empty-homes-tax-2017-05-31.pdf

Wouldn't that suggest a developer could transfer title to another legal entity they control to avoid the EHT while they continue to list it for sale?

Regardless, it would seem to help affordability if the developer drops the price to clear the last unsold units and avoid the hassle required to avoid the EHT.

There is the silly property transfer tax in BC. I think you found a way to avoid paying tax to city by paying tax to the province.

[officedweller]

From the GEC thread:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Earlier this week. Not about Surrey but relevant.

http://www.cibt.net/blog/2019/01/07/cibt...-lands-develop-gec-oakridge-103-million/

And from their financials in November:

There are only 2 corners at Cambie & 42nd - the west side is the mall.
I wonder how far east from Cambie the Phase 3 plan allows density - I think the plan just says "study area"?

Could be they have the parcels where this project is/was planned (or just to the east of it):

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applications/5812-5888cambie/documents/renderings1.pdf

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2018/08/24...idor-set-to-meet-vastly-different-fates/