Atlanta Project Thread IV

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by Vaden

It would be nice to get a really tall skyscraper out of this.

As an aside, I am happy this is another success for Atlanta, but I still feel sorry for Virginia losing this company. Norfolk/Va. Beach isn't growing anywhere near as fast as they used to during the 1980's. Virginia seems to be getting it's lunch eaten by the rapid growth in NC and GA. I guess they expect NoVa to keep the state going. Meanwhile Atlanta, the black hole of the south, seems to suck in everything not nailed down.

Norfolk Virginia is really a great town. The government has done a great job making it a livable city. It is a bigger loss for Norfolk than it is a gain for Atlanta.

[AtlHeel]

Originally Posted by montydawg

Norfolk Virginia is really a great town. The government has done a great job making it a livable city. It is a bigger loss for Norfolk than it is a gain for Atlanta.

I agree about Norfolk - nice place. As much as I love intown development, I'd prefer Atl to get HQ's from other large cities where losing one would be less brutal for the local economy and spirit.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by AtlHeel

I agree about Norfolk - nice place. As much as I love intown development, I'd prefer Atl to get HQ's from other large cities where losing one would be less brutal for the local economy and spirit.

While gaining major corporations is nothing to sneeze at, I’d rather see more startups and new business in Georgia than poaching from other cities. Chances are we will eventually reap what we sow. We should invest in education and technology to encourage new business. Transient companies are not worth the time, effort, or taxes. Similarly, ther majority of the benefit goes to the company that uproots the city of Atlanta and moves to sandy springs or Alpharetta. Little is passed on to the city from new taxes (offset by tax incentives provided) or to the employees.

I’d rather Atlanta pivot and be less corporate and more innovative.

[Libertarian]

Street Advocate, so true.

[Vaden]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

While gaining major corporations is nothing to sneeze at, I’d rather see more startups and new business in Georgia than poaching from other cities. Chances are we will eventually reap what we sow. We should invest in education and technology to encourage new business. Transient companies are not worth the time, effort, or taxes. Similarly, ther majority of the benefit goes to the company that uproots the city of Atlanta and moves to sandy springs or Alpharetta. Little is passed on to the city from new taxes (offset by tax incentives provided) or to the employees.

I’d rather Atlanta pivot and be less corporate and more innovative.

I don't see one as cancelling the other. Atlanta has "poached" a number of companies and they have not been very "transient." They remain in Atlanta with the exception of a couple (Rubbermaid and RockTenn). These companies bring high quality and high paying jobs to the metro, which is nothing but good for the region. Norfolk Southern is coming to Atlanta, not Sandy Springs or Alpharetta so they will be here, bringing the jobs to the city. Even if many of those workers are suburbanite commuters, they are coming into the city daily, and probably spending money in the city too for food, whatever. Perhaps many of the workers will choose to live in the many new high rises in Midtown. Atlanta the city doesn't exist in isolation. The health of the metro is tied to the city and vice versa. Everybody can win together as I see it.
As for technology, Atlanta has ranked near the top for STEM jobs for years now. It is ranked 5th or 6th as a tech job center, right up there just under the huge stalwarts of Seattle, San Francisco bay, Boston, and Wash. DC. Atlanta is the leader in financial tech jobs and is one of the fastest growing in medical, software, and green energy tech jobs. It is already one of the fastest growing startup areas for tech jobs as ranked by Forbes and others. The area is doing fine, despite the relative lack of quality public schools in the city. The metro as a whole still has one of the highest educated workforces in the nation-about 40% of the area has a bachelors degree or higher.

[Ant131531]

To me, as far as Norfolk Southern, it'll bring a shiny new tower and some more workers to Midtown, but outside of that, it doesn't really affect me too much. I'll enjoy seeing the tower rise.

But I absolutely agree with Street Advocate. Time for companies to get big in Atlanta like they did in Seattle(Amazon) or SF(Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc).

[Martinman]

Originally Posted by Vaden

I don't see one as cancelling the other. Atlanta has "poached" a number of companies and they have not been very "transient." They remain in Atlanta with the exception of a couple (Rubbermaid and RockTenn). These companies bring high quality and high paying jobs to the metro, which is nothing but good for the region. Norfolk Southern is coming to Atlanta, not Sandy Springs or Alpharetta so they will be here, bringing the jobs to the city. Even if many of those workers are suburbanite commuters, they are coming into the city daily, and probably spending money in the city too for food, whatever. Perhaps many of the workers will choose to live in the many new high rises in Midtown. Atlanta the city doesn't exist in isolation. The health of the metro is tied to the city and vice versa. Everybody can win together as I see it.
As for technology, Atlanta has ranked near the top for STEM jobs for years now. It is ranked 5th or 6th as a tech job center, right up there just under the huge stalwarts of Seattle, San Francisco bay, Boston, and Wash. DC. Atlanta is the leader in financial tech jobs and is one of the fastest growing in medical, software, and green energy tech jobs. It is already one of the fastest growing startup areas for tech jobs as ranked by Forbes and others. The area is doing fine, despite the relative lack of quality public schools in the city. The metro as a whole still has one of the highest educated workforces in the nation-about 40% of the area has a bachelors degree or higher.

RockTenn never left Atlanta. They only temporarily listed Richmond as the headquarters address after the merger with MeadWestaco.

Column: Fortune 500 company WestRock makes Atlanta its ‘home office’

And I hate when people act as if Atlanta or any other city kidnaps these businesses against their will. Obviously companies move to locations that they believe are advantageous to their business or they wouldn't move. If not Atlanta, it would be somewhere else. I am thankful that we are a city that is attractive to businesses of all sizes.

Re Norfolk Southern HQ:
With the level of details in the Invest Atlanta documents. the concept for the design must be pretty far along. When is the next Midtown DRC meeting?

[Vaden]

Originally Posted by Martinman

RockTenn never left Atlanta. They only temporarily listed Richmond as the headquarters address after the merger with MeadWestaco.

Column: Fortune 500 company WestRock makes Atlanta its ‘home office’

And I hate when people act as if Atlanta or any other city kidnaps these businesses against their will. Obviously companies move to locations that they believe are advantageous to their business or they wouldn't move. If not Atlanta, it would be somewhere else. I am thankful that we are a city that is attractive to businesses of all sizes.

Re Norfolk Southern HQ:
With the level of details in the Invest Atlanta documents. the concept for the design must be pretty far along. When is the next Midtown DRC meeting?

Oh really?? I was not aware of that situation regarding WestRock. What a pity they too didn't build a new building to house it in the city.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Martinman

RockTenn never left Atlanta. They only temporarily listed Richmond as the headquarters address after the merger with MeadWestaco.

Column: Fortune 500 company WestRock makes Atlanta its ‘home office’

And I hate when people act as if Atlanta or any other city kidnaps these businesses against their will. Obviously companies move to locations that they believe are advantageous to their business or they wouldn't move. If not Atlanta, it would be somewhere else. I am thankful that we are a city that is attractive to businesses of all sizes.

*disclaimer* apologies if it sounds like i'm trying to argue or single you out. I'm not. I've spent a lot of time related to this subject and wanted to put reliable information out there for public reference. In general I too am glad that Atlanta remains a business friendly environment that companies are relocating to. Cleaned up some of my verbiage to come off less confrontational.

General FYI from the Brookings Institute about what is deemed strong long term economic development strategy.

Here's one example:
Remaking
Economic Development
THE MARKETS AND CIVICS OF CONTINUOUS GROWTH AND PROSPERITY
"The work to put a region on a higher growth
trajectory begins with getting the markets and the
civics right, but applying these basic principles in
practice is not easy. Leaders in the vanguard of this
movement are taking action to achieve the fuller
promise of economic development to generate
growth, prosperity, and inclusion. These actions fall
into five broad categories, reflecting the combined
power of good economics and good governance.
1. Set the right goals
2. Grow from within
3. Boost trade
4. Invest in people
and skills
5. Connect place"
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/upl...kingEconomicDevelopment_Feb25LoRes-1.pdf


Again, I'm not saying a major corporate relocation is bad for Atlanta nor that we should discourage companies form coming to Atlanta. The article I cite even includes the benefit of aggregate growth accompanies w/corporate relocations. Just that it's better to strengthen your local economy by investing in existing talent compared with pulling in a company that seesaws between locations, looking for tax breaks.

Second example:
Examining the local value of economic development incentives

[Martinman]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Gensler is the architect, so it will probably be pretty good.

Here's a recent 3D massing.

[Martinman]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

*disclaimer* apologies if it sounds like i'm trying to argue or single you out. I'm not. I've spent a lot of time related to this subject and wanted to put reliable information out there for public reference. In general I too am glad that Atlanta remains a business friendly environment that companies are relocating to. Cleaned up some of my verbiage to come off less confrontational.

General FYI from the Brookings Institute about what is deemed strong long term economic development strategy.

Here's one example:
Remaking
Economic Development
THE MARKETS AND CIVICS OF CONTINUOUS GROWTH AND PROSPERITY
"The work to put a region on a higher growth
trajectory begins with getting the markets and the
civics right, but applying these basic principles in
practice is not easy. Leaders in the vanguard of this
movement are taking action to achieve the fuller
promise of economic development to generate
growth, prosperity, and inclusion. These actions fall
into five broad categories, reflecting the combined
power of good economics and good governance.
1. Set the right goals
2. Grow from within
3. Boost trade
4. Invest in people
and skills
5. Connect place"
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/upl...kingEconomicDevelopment_Feb25LoRes-1.pdf


Again, I'm not saying a major corporate relocation is bad for Atlanta nor that we should discourage companies form coming to Atlanta. The article I cite even includes the benefit of aggregate growth accompanies w/corporate relocations. Just that it's better to strengthen your local economy by investing in existing talent compared with pulling in a company that seesaws between locations, looking for tax breaks.

Second example:
Examining the local value of economic development incentives

Whats the point of this? Being attractive to outside businesses in no way excludes the region's ability to grow from within which OF COURSE IT DOES. "Major corporate relocations" are rare. If that were all the local economy was based on then we'd be in pretty bad shape. The bottom line is that businesses don't relocate just for the sake of moving. They do so because it benefits them, ie they can grow their business.

In the Norfolk Southern case, they are already HERE and have been for decades. They are only consolidating to a city where they already have the most employees.

[Pemgin]

Originally Posted by Martinman

Here's a recent 3D massing.

That's...um...hmm. 2/3 of it looks like it might be interesting and the back 1/3 has a bland Icon Midtown vibe. In fact, it looks fairly similar to Icon.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Martinman

Whats the point of this?

To educate.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

To educate.

I think what he's getting at is that you said you'd rather see more startups and new business than poaching from other cities, but there are already a ton of small businesses here. The big corporate relocations are what generate headlines but there's a whole lot more going on. Actually some of our biggest companies are also local startups (i.e. Home Depot, Coca-Cola) and others have been here for almost a century (i.e. Delta). I doubt the more recent relocations are even 5% of our economy.

[skyscraperpage17]

It's kind of funny reading the recent posts.

There are many cities (including my home town) that would kill for the type of economic growth/prosperity that we're seeing in Atlanta, and here we have people being uppity and/or picky about corporate relocations vs. home grown businesses.

Talk about a lack of perspective.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by Vaden

It would be nice to get a really tall skyscraper out of this.

As an aside, I am happy this is another success for Atlanta, but I still feel sorry for Virginia losing this company. Norfolk/Va. Beach isn't growing anywhere near as fast as they used to during the 1980's. Virginia seems to be getting it's lunch eaten by the rapid growth in NC and GA. I guess they expect NoVa to keep the state going. Meanwhile Atlanta, the black hole of the south, seems to suck in everything not nailed down.

Well being that VA just landed half of Amazon HQ2, I think they'll be alright. But the Hampton Roads area definitely needs to step their game up; overreliance on the military has made it much less competitive over the years which is a shame given its advantages.

[Street Advocate]

If y’all want to argue about corporate relocations, justify dated corporations that are lagging in the technology scene, or continue to put words in my mouth, go ahead amongst yourselves. I’m going to continue to post truths about economic development, what is good for long term Atlanta, and backed by research. Again, nothing wrong with more jobs. I never said anything about our existing startup environment.

Here’s the point: Long term health of a city is solidified however by investing in the local talent and (education & art) systems.

The facts are out there for those who want it.

[Vaden]

Originally Posted by KB0679

Well being that VA just landed half of Amazon HQ2, I think they'll be alright. But the Hampton Roads area definitely needs to step their game up; overreliance on the military has made it much less competitive over the years which is a shame given its advantages.

Did I step on your toes in some way? Virginia hasn't "landed" it yet-it is not official. But yes I think it's down to them and NY. What I meant by that comment was that VA has seen it's population growth rate slow over the past 20 years while GA and NC have seen theirs increase. VA has few urban centers that could compete with Charlotte or Atlanta. Richmond's growth rate lags far behind either of those two cities. Hampton Roads is growing very slowly. Most of VA's eggs are in the NoVa basket so to speak. I really think they need to worry a little that almost all the growth, money, and employment is there.

But anyway, let's not get distracted here. This isn't the VA forum. Let's keep the topic focused on Amazon and Atlanta's position.

[ThrashATL]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

That's...um...hmm. 2/3 of it looks like it might be interesting and the back 1/3 has a bland Icon Midtown vibe. In fact, it looks fairly similar to Icon.

Is there a plan/possibility of adding a 2nd tower to this project? I kept hearing a possible 2000 rooms eventually at the GWCC.

[tinyslam]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

That's...um...hmm. 2/3 of it looks like it might be interesting and the back 1/3 has a bland Icon Midtown vibe. In fact, it looks fairly similar to Icon.

I believe this is only a massing model to show the general size and shape of the building so I wouldn't focus on the cladding (or lack there of) as it will most likely not look like that when done.