Winnipeg | Portage and Main

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by Biff

Going to a party with 3 other hockey families the subject came up and sadly I was the only one in a car of 6 that wanted it open. It was clear that there was a total lack of information on the other 5 as they didn't seem to really understand what would happen if it was open. I explained my side with all the possibilities and was generally met with the same response....It will take me too long to get home. The facts didn't seem to matter. Their crystal ball told them that letting people cross the street would cost them an extra 1/2 hr in traffic. Funny thing was is that none of them worked downtown.

But, apparently, calling them out on their delusion is 'elitist' and 'condescending'.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

But, apparently, calling them out on their delusion is 'elitist' and 'condescending'.

Merely knowing facts makes one a smug, elitist jerk... what a time to be alive.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

To be perfectly frank I really couldn't care less how the vote goes either way, if it is a yes vote and the intersection is opened to ped. traffic I don't think it will make a hell of lot of difference in transforming anything or adding to the Winnipeg experience in any way, shape or form!

In a city of over 800000 having just over a hundred people come out as a show of solidarity towards a YES vote kind of amounts to a fly pissing in the wind!

That might totally be the case. But at least then the centre of our city won’t look like the Soviet Union, we won’t force people to wander dark empty corridors and stairwells at night, and it will be accessible to people in wheelchairs. We know for a fact those things will happen. That last point alone should really void any vote. How we can put accessibility to a vote is beyond me, but here we are.

And you never know. Maybe you are wrong and the property owners, the downtown biz, the exchange Biz, all the small business owners, the chamber of commerce, economic development Winnipeg are right and it will help the economy.

And if traffic is actually really bad and the study is wrong, we can fix it. Maybe the crossings are closed at rush hour. Or seasonally. Or only the lower impact crossings are open. Nobody wants traffic to be unbearable. We have options. We don’t with a closed vote.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

The 5 minutes is an estimate by the traffic consultants. I'll take their estimate over your hysterical guess.

I drive through the intersection in the evening rush hour Monday to Friday, going from Portage eastbound to Main northbound (the most affected route) and I want the intersection open. How often do you drive through the intersection at rush hour?

That being said the whole bombers moving to the uofm fiasco proves that we winnipegers are totally incapable of dealing with a change. Or perhaps we are but we gripe about change reflexively, despite any benefits associated with the change. I sometimes wonder if people have ever left the province, and if so, if they've noticed what it is about other places or cities that make them like them so much. (Hint: they're probably more hospitable to human beings than Portage and main)

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

That being said the whole bombers moving to the uofm fiasco proves that we winnipegers are totally incapable of dealing with a change. Or perhaps we are but we gripe about change reflexively, despite any benefits associated with the change. I sometimes wonder if people have ever left the province, and if so, if they've noticed what it is about other places or cities that make them like them so much. (Hint: they're probably more hospitable to human beings than Portage and main)

True and the IGF issues showed us the media drives this a lot. I emailed one reporter who, after the IGF issues were largly sorted out, was re-tweeting and contacting anyone who expressed they had issues and ignoring those who reported no issues. The result was the appearance that "everyone was stuck on campus for two hours"

[tree]

Bowman got afraid and abandoned his commitment to reopening P&M. Based on the competition in this election he could have proposed to ban cars AND pedestrians from the intersection and still won as he is the only one even remotely competent but instead he chickened out and outsourced his stance on it. It's not a huge deal in the end to be fair - downtown will still get better - but its often little things like this that reveal peoples character / integrity or lack thereof.

Apparently I am new to politics.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

True and the IGF issues showed us the media drives this a lot. I emailed one reporter who, after the IGF issues were largly sorted out, was re-tweeting and contacting anyone who expressed they had issues and ignoring those who reported no issues. The result was the appearance that "everyone was stuck on campus for two hours"

Yeah exactly. If you go looking just for negative answers or feedback, you're missing at least half of the picture usually.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

True and the IGF issues showed us the media drives this a lot. I emailed one reporter who, after the IGF issues were largly sorted out, was re-tweeting and contacting anyone who expressed they had issues and ignoring those who reported no issues. The result was the appearance that "everyone was stuck on campus for two hours"

Naturally the first few events required some sorting out as they learned what works and what needed improvement. But all that summer, all the media would talk about was TRAFFIC CATASTROPHE to the point where many Winnipeggers are convinced that it's still a complete mess when even a Banjo Bowl sellout crowd disperses pretty efficiently these days.

No doubt if there is a yes vote we'll have similarly breathless blanket coverage for the first week of pedestrian crossings in which the loudest-ranting commuters will be given the most prominent play.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

. Funny thing was is that none of them worked downtown.

Strangely enough, the greatest emphasis has been put on residential/pedestrian walkability and perhaps future economic growth for, implied, future businesses since so much space is available.

MUCH more attention needs to be drawn to the fact that pretty much all CURRENT businesses in downtown want this open. And by extension, current residents of downtown.

How absurd would it be if a river heights resident went to south osborne to promote or protest potential uses of a proposed park or apt project?

If those travelling through portage and main want any claim to a valid opinion on this matter, they should be working here. Or atleast within a 1-2 km radius.

I've been paying attention to all the local businesses promoting vote open and would feel horrible for them if they get drowned out by the occasional driver.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Strangely enough, the greatest emphasis has been put on residential/pedestrian walkability and perhaps future economic growth for, implied, future businesses since so much space is available.

MUCH more attention needs to be drawn to the fact that pretty much all CURRENT businesses in downtown want this open. And by extension, current residents of downtown.

How absurd would it be if a river heights resident went to south osborne to promote or protest potential uses of a proposed park or apt project?

If those travelling through portage and main want any claim to a valid opinion on this matter, they should be working here. Or atleast within a 1-2 km radius.

I've been paying attention to all the local businesses promoting vote open and would feel horrible for them if they get drowned out by the occasional driver.

I've had a former co-worker of mine who lives in Stony Mountain saying he wants the intersection closed, because "it's pointless to have it opened."

Like dude, you don't even live in the city.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

I've had a former co-worker of mine who lives in Stony Mountain saying he wants the intersection closed, because "it's pointless to have it opened."

Like dude, you don't even live in the city.

Luckily, he won't be voting in the referendum.

[BAKGUY]

I recall a dinner back in the early 2000's where everyone said to me"Nobody will go downtown to see the hockey game or concerts at all" "MTS will be A white elephant on the public teet". Funny how MTS Place is the 3rd busiest in N America and Placing at the number 13 position worldwide. P & M has to attempt the opening as the barricades are all rotting so we need to repair and spend money anyways. Should it not work, we can always go Soviet style underground again.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Biff

Although my hope is for the intersection to be open, sadly on Friday I was greeted with the reality I believe is most common.

Going to a party with 3 other hockey families the subject came up and sadly I was the only one in a car of 6 that wanted it open. It was clear that there was a total lack of information on the other 5 as they didn't seem to really understand what would happen if it was open. I explained my side with all the possibilities and was generally met with the same response....It will take me too long to get home. The facts didn't seem to matter. Their crystal ball told them that letting people cross the street would cost them an extra 1/2 hr in traffic. Funny thing was is that none of them worked downtown.

This is the very reason why governing by referendum is a terrible idea.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by esquire

Naturally the first few events required some sorting out as they learned what works and what needed improvement. But all that summer, all the media would talk about was TRAFFIC CATASTROPHE to the point where many Winnipeggers are convinced that it's still a complete mess when even a Banjo Bowl sellout crowd disperses pretty efficiently these days.

No doubt if there is a yes vote we'll have similarly breathless blanket coverage for the first week of pedestrian crossings in which the loudest-ranting commuters will be given the most prominent play.

The Sun, that august publication, thrives on controversy. Everything is bad, everything is getting worse, all new ideas are catastrophic. Much like certain posters on the forum.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Ando

The Sun, that august publication, thrives on controversy. Everything is bad, everything is getting worse, all new ideas are catastrophic. Much like certain posters on the forum.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by Ando

This is the very reason why governing by referendum is a terrible idea.

Now, there is an elitist comment if I ever heard one.

[cheswick]

Someone at CTV goofed. Not sure how long these will be up, they posted two breaking news articles, one as if vote open won and one as if vote closed won. Percentages are left blank.

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/breaking...main-1.4146300

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/breaking...osed-1.4146306

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Jammon

Now, there is an elitist comment if I ever heard one.

Look, if you want to engage with me in an intelligent debate then let's engage. I could equally say your response is a typical head-in-the-sand people who use big words are elitists so I hate them and I'm going to do the exact opposite of what they say. Referendums are actually inconsistent with our democratic institutions. We elect individuals to govern on behalf of all citizens. We elect them, they make decisions. If we don't like them, we vote them out. Referendums on complex issues, particularly like this one that is run without any rules, are recipes for bad decision-making. Had many of the good things that have happened in Winnipeg over the past quarter century been put to a referendum you can bet that they would not have happened. So instead of running running around calling everyone you don't agree with an elitist, I'm inviting you to step up your game, take a position, and defend it with facts and logic.

[Labroco]

How many eligible voters are there in this election and what percentage historically vote?

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by Jammon

Now, there is an elitist comment if I ever heard one.

He does have a point, especially when it comes to an issue so many people are ignorant about. Downtown needs to be reclaimed by pedestrians because that is what successful downtowns are made of, not funneling traffic.