Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Well if cancelled we have to go back to the proposal / design stage anyways. So it will be an entirely new set of funding that would need to be made.

Realistically will probably take 2 years to get back to this point.

Which is a small sacrifice to avoid the poorly planned LRT.

BY which time the anti transit Tories could be back in Ottawa or we could be in a recession. It’s foolish to throw away this chance at the money.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by whatnext

BY which time the anti transit Tories could be back in Ottawa or we could be in a recession. It’s foolish to throw away this chance at the money.

And build a terrible project over such a fear?

Seems like a silly way to think to me.

Also wouldn’t a recession lower the cost of such a project?

[officedweller]

Back to this.....

Originally Posted by Whalleyboy

I found something on the planning for SoF rapid transit. Looks like translink was actually listening and have added a new options for possible RRT routes.
They have taken the original plan with skytrain to Langley but have added a BRT route along king george and 104 ave.

I gotta say this Seems like it might come out being the best option since the time saving is the best now for everyone. Although I am still at a toss up with RRT 2

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by whatnext

BY which time the anti transit Tories could be back in Ottawa or we could be in a recession. It’s foolish to throw away this chance at the money.

It is foolish to destroy the park on 144th and 105th and the school ground on 150th by putting a road through it. That got people really upset.

It is foolish to reduce the very busy 104th ave to one lane in each direction to run an unnecessary streetcar down the middle of it.

It is foolish to not grant the wishes of voters who overwhelmingly chose to ditch the LRT by electing Doug and his team.

It is foolish to introduce another technology that does not seamlessly integrate into the already successful Skytrain.

[Henbo]

Hard to say what is going to happen with the L-Line.

If they decide to go with BRT and turn down senior government funding for LRT, they would have to go through a complete new redesign, and process to seek provincial and federal funding again.

However, I'm wondering if some of the bones of the LRT project (ROW and Stations) can still be built with some of that already dedicated funding. It would just be used with busses instead of trains.

The extension with Langley is definitely looking like Skytrain now moving forward

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Henbo

Hard to say what is going to happen with the L-Line.

If they decide to go with BRT and turn down senior government funding for LRT, they would have to go through a complete new redesign, and process to seek provincial and federal funding again.

However, I'm wondering if some of the bones of the LRT project (ROW and Stations) can still be built with some of that already dedicated funding. It would just be used with busses instead of trains.

The extension with Langley is definitely looking like Skytrain now moving forward

Well all the engineering companies working on their bids would still have to back to the drawing board. I imagine simply deleting the LRT tracks and power lines is what would turn it into a BRT from existing.

Though I don’t know what Doug has in mind. He could turn around and ask for RRT1A or he could be cheap.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Whalleyboy

hopefully this is what happens instead. a much better plan. reaches more people, costs a lot less, and has more than enough capacity.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Henbo

However, I'm wondering if some of the bones of the LRT project (ROW and Stations) can still be built with some of that already dedicated funding. It would just be used with busses instead of trains.

Small nitpick, but bus doors are located on the right-hand side of the vehicle; a median would require opening on the left. Would TransLink order customized vehicles, or just drive counterflow?

[Henbo]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Small nitpick, but bus doors are located on the right-hand side of the vehicle; a median would require opening on the left. Would TransLink order customized vehicles, or just drive counterflow?

True...

Maybe they could order custom busses? But this would likely be much more expensive.

There are some unique busses out there though, that are almost more LRT than they are your traditional bus. (This one from Malmo only has right-side boarding however)



Perhaps there could be a win-win here, keep the project largely in tact, but change the technology to BRT as a way to fulfill Doug McCallum's campaign promise and lower costs?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Henbo

Perhaps there could be a win-win here, keep the project largely in tact, but change the technology to BRT as a way to fulfill Doug McCallum's campaign promise and lower costs?

That'd work. Just need to run it along 105th instead of 104th - and get rid of the stupid GTA5 turns.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

It is foolish to introduce another technology that does not seamlessly integrate into the already successful Skytrain.

So you're saying Canada Line was a foolish decision?

Ron.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

So you're saying Canada Line was a foolish decision?

Ron.

If there was an existing SkyTrain from Waterfront to Broadway that the Canada cut short, then yes. Why have two rapid transit lines for different parts of the same corridor?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Small nitpick, but bus doors are located on the right-hand side of the vehicle; a median would require opening on the left. Would TransLink order customized vehicles, or just drive counterflow?

If the buses run down dedicated lanes in the center median then it's possible to have crossovers on each side of a median station so the buses can board on the right side. There aren't so many buses running that this would cause a problem. It really depends on how many median stations there are vs. curb stations.

But median stations generally make for a poor transit experience because they require people to cross lanes of traffic to access them. It's better from a transit customer perspective to have curb stations located closer to the streetside amenities.

[BirchTrain]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Small nitpick, but bus doors are located on the right-hand side of the vehicle; a median would require opening on the left. Would TransLink order customized vehicles, or just drive counterflow?

New Flyer has made BRT vehicles with doors on both sides for Cleveland:

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

So you're saying Canada Line was a foolish decision?

Ron.

Waterfront is an end/beginning point on the Expo Line as is the same with the Canada Line. Most people don't get off the Expo line to get on the Canada Line and vice-versa. There was no need to connect them directly. The LRT plan is to not extend SKYtrain east from KG but use LRT instead. That was my point.

[Waders]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Whether or not the L Line will be cancelled is still up in the air.

As reported in this news article, there is a lot politics involved.
If phase 1 is changed from LRT to BRT and phase 2 is changed to Skytrain technology, would the total cost of the 2 phases be lower?

“This election was a referendum on the RCMP versus our own police force and the people of Surrey spoke very loud in this election that they want their own Surrey police force they also spoke very very loudly they want SkyTrain and not light rail,” McCallum told CTV News on election night.

“Both of those we are going to do in our first council meeting in probably early November.”

Horgan and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau tried to head off any talk of backing away from LRT in Surrey last month with a high-profile joint press conference where they reconfirmed a combined $3 billion in funding for Surrey LRT and a SkyTrain extension in Vancouver.

“We’re not scrapping the LRT,” Horgan said at the time, noting it was “the end of the discussion” on the issue.

Horgan now has to decide whether to hold that position. In the NDP backrooms, the uncomfortable question will be: How many NDP voters from 2017 aligned with McCallum on Saturday? If Surrey is crucial to the NDP’s provincial success, what is the political cost to the Horgan administration in fighting with McCallum and opposing the more than 45,484 voters who backed him?

Already there are signs in Victoria that the strategy will simply be to buy time. Robinson called it “hypothetical” if the government is willing to talk about replacing LRT with SkyTrain. The NDP is hoping it won’t have to take a position until — and if — McCallum can get a resolution to change the transit plan through the mayor’s council. At that council table, Horgan can no longer rely on Burnaby’s Derek Corrigan to backstop his LRT transit plans either, with Corrigan’s defeat Saturday.

The NDP also wants to see whether mayors are willing to pick up the extra costs of moving to more expensive SkyTrain technology through property tax increases or some other local levy, rather than just arriving back in Victoria with hands out asking for more provincial funding.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Waders

As reported in this news article, there is a lot politics involved.
If phase 1 is changed from LRT to BRT and phase 2 is changed to Skytrain technology, would the total cost of the 2 phases be lower?

Bingo!! On the news article!! The Mayor's council is not the same council before Oct 20th. It is a whole new group of people. Just because the former Surrey council rammed LRT technology down the throats of people in Surrey in a backroom without even asking if that is what they wanted does not mean we have to accept it. The voters soundly rejected LRT so it is back to the drawing board. Doug and his team won't back down on the "No LRT" position. Would be hard to build LRT with no cooperation from Surrey Council. The other new mayors will be paying attention to how Horgan treats Surrey. It is a new day and a new government in Surrey. Interesting days ahead...

[Henbo]

Originally Posted by Waders

As reported in this news article, there is a lot politics involved.
If phase 1 is changed from LRT to BRT and phase 2 is changed to Skytrain technology, would the total cost of the 2 phases be lower?

I think it would be slightly, but have the province and feds already officially committed to funding phase 2?

If not, then process-wise, they are likely viewing these as two distinct projects. If the first project is cancelled, the money cannot simply be shifted to another project (whose timeline is a few years behind the first project). Instead, the money will be reallocated to another shovel-ready transit project, maybe in Toronto or Ottawa (helping get votes there )

The City of Surrey and TransLink would then have to go through a new application process to obtain funding (I think?)

[Waders]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Would be hard to build LRT with no cooperation from Surrey Council.

No LRT work can start if Surrey refuses to issue any construction permit for the project.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Waders

No LRT work can start if Surrey refuses to issue any construction permit for the project.

not true. TransLink, like all Crown Corporations, don't require municipal permits/approvals to do what they want. that said, generally they want to play nice with the electorate.