Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

That's the city of Ottawa's fault for the unrealistic expectations.

Of course. But it has nothing to do with "we are in a government town and people have government expectations". There are governments everywhere... jeez

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Here you go

https://obj.ca/article/completion-ottawas-lrt-delayed-again-service-expected-2019

But that doesn’t say everything but one entrance of Rideau, it just says “partial opening”

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by acottawa

But that doesn’t say everything but one entrance of Rideau, it just says “partial opening”

Based on all the pictures we have seen and all the updates its safe to assume only the north entrance at rideau will not be ready

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Based on all the pictures we have seen and all the updates its safe to assume only the north entrance at rideau will not be ready

I agree with that, but CityTech’s post suggested (or maybe I misunderstood) that the North Entrance was the only thing that would not open under a partial opening proposed by RTG. It seems to me like a lot more than that is not ready.

[OCCheetos]

IIRC when the news was first announced there was mention that a partial opening would mean one of the entrances would not be open and the city rejected any offer of a partial opening since they are still committed to transferring all ridership on day 1 which would be an even bigger disaster with one less entrance at a key station.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I agree with that, but CityTech’s post suggested (or maybe I misunderstood) that the North Entrance was the only thing that would not open under a partial opening proposed by RTG. It seems to me like a lot more than that is not ready.

That's was in the news at the time. Or maybe on twitter. The "carve out" would exclude Rideau's north entrance and 2 or 3 (can't remember) of the 34 trains but include everything else. Definitely remember it, though.

This was like a month ago. I presume RTG would have been working much faster in the past month if the city had taken the deal (without it, there's no reason to finish anything before Rideau north).

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by CityTech

That's was in the news at the time. Or maybe on twitter. The "carve out" would exclude Rideau's north entrance and 2 or 3 (can't remember) of the 34 trains but include everything else. Definitely remember it, though.

This was like a month ago. I presume RTG would have been working much faster in the past month if the city had taken the deal (without it, there's no reason to finish anything before Rideau north).

To be honest though, I'd be skeptical if I were the project manager that they could have made that partial opening based on the rate of progress back in August. What's worse, not accepting the offer or missing another deadline. RTG hasn't been able to prove they can work faster than they are now.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by CityTech

That's was in the news at the time. Or maybe on twitter. The "carve out" would exclude Rideau's north entrance and 2 or 3 (can't remember) of the 34 trains but include everything else. Definitely remember it, though.

This was like a month ago. I presume RTG would have been working much faster in the past month if the city had taken the deal (without it, there's no reason to finish anything before Rideau north).

I think this sounds more like a twitter rumour than a concrete offer that was made to the city.

[Kitchissippi]

Partial openings usually bring the risk of liabilities and inconveniences of a semi-construction site, and would end up affecting the public's first impressions. The outstanding issues also tend to drag on longer than they should. Kind of like taking possession of a new house when it's not completely finished, the contractors take their time to fix things and have to work around you and your schedule.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think this sounds more like a twitter rumour than a concrete offer that was made to the city.

No, it actually was written down, i think it's even a few pages back in this topic

[J.OT13]

Important to remember RTG also wanted to reduce the testing requirement, which could end up being a major safety issue. It the City signs on this and gives the OK, the City would probably become liable if something happened, not RTG.

From the O-Train Fan website. Doesn't specify the Rideau north entrance as the one that would remain closed, but I feel that's what Manconi said at the FEDCO meeting and during media interviews.

https://www.otrainfans.ca/blogs/delays-to-confederation-line-mean-missing-november-2018-opening

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Wow! That's some 'interesting' logic... How do you explain A) On time projects in Ottawa-Gatineau (IE the vast majority)? and B) Delayed projects in not-so-much-government-towns (take your pick)?

I think you misunderstood what I said. I was trying to say that it makes no sense for us to expect the RTG to rush to finish the stations by November 2, when they won't be finished the project by then (hence hurry up and wait).

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Important to remember RTG also wanted to reduce the testing requirement, which could end up being a major safety issue. It the City signs on this and gives the OK, the City would probably become liable if something happened, not RTG.

That is a very important point. I don't expect there will be any issues that late in the process, but the city needs to do their due diligence to ensure there aren't any.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

As you know, handover has been delayed. Only the government likes the idea of hurry up and wait. In the corporate world the preference is to balance the work load over the entire period. The problem is we are in a government town and people have government expectations.

This is BS. If that's their mentality, then clearly heavier fines need to be imposed. I'm for withholding the entire cost of the extra bussing during the delay.

Sure, they can't make November 2nd. But at the pace they are going, their previous offer of November 30th is increasingly looking doubtful too.

Thi is not some bullshit about "government mentality". They seem to not give a shit about the penalties. And really aren't building any slack at all into the schedule for delays arising from operational testing. Nobody in the private sector would do that either.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Important to remember RTG also wanted to reduce the testing requirement, which could end up being a major safety issue. It the City signs on this and gives the OK, the City would probably become liable if something happened, not RTG.

Exactly.

It was a shit offer and the Manconi was absolutely right to say no. It would have transferred all the operational risk to the city. And probably resulted in some quick shoddy work to finish by RTG. I hope the inspectors are being extra diligent on what RTG is doing now.

It's easy to say they could have a partial opening. But we don't know what exactly that partial opening would have meant. What level of reliability and capacity could be guaranteed by RTG? Would the guarantees be sufficient for a full transition or would OC Transpo be stuck having to run the current bus schedule and the Confederation Line at the same time. And all this delivered to Manconi on a phone call on Friday evening, right before a FEDCO meeting the week following.

Good on Manconi for standing firm.

[Kitchissippi]

Two people killed in one day in Calgary. The decision to have a fully grade separated system is clear, it's a matter of when not if something like this could happen. I think this will give pause to the idea of having Confed line extensions running openly on the street.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Two people killed in one day in Calgary. The decision to have a fully grade separated system is clear, it's a matter of when not if something like this could happen. I think this will give pause to the idea of having Confed line extensions running openly on the street.

The way the ctrain is setup does seem dangerous, it's not just that it's level crossings, it's that it's high speed complex crossings with multiple gates. It's no slow moving streetcar

[Aylmer]

That's awful. However, whenever we have discussions on transport safety, I find the lack of concern to be disingenuous. 80 people have been hit by LRT since its opening according to the article, an average of about 2 per year. By comparison, cars kill about 2000 Canadians every year. Every life lost is one too many. And if we're actually concerned about saving lives, we should be literally 1000 times more concerned with automobiles.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

That's awful. However, whenever we have discussions on transport safety, I find the lack of concern to be disingenuous. 80 people have been hit by LRT since its opening according to the article, an average of about 2 per year. By comparison, cars kill about 2000 Canadians every year. Every life lost is one too many. And if we're actually concerned about saving lives, we should be literally 1000 times more concerned with automobiles.

That's an apples and oranges comparison. I think there is equivalent concern about cars, but think of the near infinite number of possible collision points between cars and pedestrians in calgary and there's about 7-10 car fatalities a year in that city. Given that, per vehicle km travelled, the ctrain is far deadlier

[CityTech]

Not to sound a little crass, but how many C-Train deaths are suicides? That's a different issue than accidents.