Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction - Page 471

misher · #**9401** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 3:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That makes me want to gag. And that line about "better for the urban envoronment," yeah right. Digging up the 16th avenue boulevard, one of the few in the city.......
And a surface LRT line that clatters along leisurely, having to stop at cross-streets, making the trip pokier, slower, not to mention scarring up a major boulevard median....
Surrey-style LRT comes to one of the busiest corridors in the entire Metro area .... gimme a break.

I hope enough other people feel the way I do about this cooked-up —.

The lrt would last until it hits a dumb bicyclist. Then it would lose most of its supporters.

Firebrand · #**9402** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 4:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Crazy is coming back. A major pro LRT video... along 16th instead of Skytrain along Broadway...

Watch this video... the misinformation boggles the mind!

https://www.facebook.com/StoryheroMedia/videos/701064733602144/

This is so ridiculous I can’t even tell they’re trolling or they’re really stupid. The mayors here (or mayoral candidates in this case) have a really strong fetish for center-median trams on busy streets. It’s borderline nonsensical.

Migrant_Coconut · #**9403** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 4:22 AM**

Ladies and gentlemen, if you would be so kind as to read the description below the video before flying off the handle? That's right, Fitch and Condon, the usual suspects. Fitch has already proposed this route and been verbally keelhauled for it; Condon has already dropped from the COPE ticket (and has also been keelhauled for the past decade), and his replacement's poll numbers are measured in decimal places.

OTOH, three of the four probable mayors and most of the council candidates support SkyTrain all the way to UBC. Please calm the fork down.

scryer · #**9404** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 5:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

OTOH, three of the four probable mayors and most of the council candidates support SkyTrain all the way to UBC. Please calm the fork down.

Too late, I huv been triggered!!

Metro-One · #**9405** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 5:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Ladies and gentlemen, if you would be so kind as to read the description below the video before flying off the handle? That's right, Fitch and Condon, the usual suspects. Fitch has already proposed this route and been verbally keelhauled for it; Condon has already dropped from the COPE ticket (and has also been keelhauled for the past decade), and his replacement's poll numbers are measured in decimal places.

OTOH, three of the four probable mayors and most of the council candidates support SkyTrain all the way to UBC. Please calm the fork down.

It is not flying off the handle, just our duty to rebut any such media of theirs that arises with the facts as soon as possible. Maybe one of the key reasons that Skytrain is preferred by most candidates does have to do with those of us on this forum constantly displaying how flawed the LRT option is for this corridor.

The influence of this forum (especially when members continue their activities into other social circles, media outlets, and events) is stronger than I think many on here suspect.

We can never become complacent though, because when we do, well, that’s when we give such misinformation as this pro LRT video the upper hand.

The guy who made it obviously has no idea what he is talking about and was simply told the twisted / cherry picked facts and figures from Condon and now supports LRT.

roger1818 · #**9406** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 2:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That makes me want to gag. And that line about "better for the urban envoronment," yeah right. Digging up the 16th avenue boulevard, one of the few in the city.......
And a surface LRT line that clatters along leisurely, having to stop at cross-streets, making the trip pokier, slower, not to mention scarring up a major boulevard median....
Surrey-style LRT comes to one of the busiest corridors in the entire Metro area .... gimme a break.

I hope enough other people feel the way I do about this cooked-up —.

I'll start by saying for the Broadway Extension, I believe that SkyTrain is the better technology. Having said that, please get your facts straight before rebutting a proposal. Fictitious arguments for a proposal actually make the overall argument weaker. For example:

LRT trains need not "clatter along leisurely." Most LRT trains have a maximum speed of 100km/h. As a comparison, Skytrain has a maximum speed of only 80km/h. Now station spacing often prevents trains from getting up to that speed, but that would also be true for Skytrain.
LRT trains need not stop at cross streets. Train detection systems can be used to drop gates and allow the train to pass without even slowing down.

Now the big problem with surface LRT is it would impede the flow of existing traffic. It would also add an extra transfer for those wanting to continue beyond VCC–Clark.

aberdeen5698 · #**9407** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 4:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

LRT trains need not "clatter along leisurely." Most LRT trains have a maximum speed of 100km/h.

Yeah, well buses do too, but you sure as heck don't see them going at that speed in mixed traffic.

CanSpice · #**9408** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 5:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Condon has already dropped from the COPE ticket (and has also been keelhauled for the past decade), and his replacement's poll numbers are measured in decimal places.

To be fair to Patrick Condon, he didn't get dropped by COPE, he had a stroke and withdrew his candidacy.

misher · #**9409** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 6:15 PM**

Hey look! After I contacted them they changed it to late 2018 from mid 2018 and moved to the 2nd milestone. Actually really surprised that the city responded to my request right before an election when things are supposed to be dead. Goodjob city, you have impressed me, yipee.

https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/broadway-plan.aspx

roger1818 · #**9410** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 7:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yeah, well buses do too, but you sure as heck don't see them going at that speed in mixed traffic.

Except it wouldn't be running it mixed traffic. It would be more like a busway in the median with better detection systems for controlling intersections.

Firebrand · #**9411** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 7:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

Except it wouldn't be running it mixed traffic. It would be more like a busway in the median with better detection systems for controlling intersections.

Except when an accident happens at an intersection, which will make the line useless.

xd_1771 · #**9412** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 8:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Crazy is coming back. A major pro LRT video... along 16th instead of Skytrain along Broadway...

Watch this video... the misinformation boggles the mind!

https://www.facebook.com/StoryheroMedia/videos/701064733602144/

You can disqualify this on the basis of its routing without even bringing up a single SkyTrain-vs-LRT point. The reason we're expanding the Millennium Line west in the first place is to service all of Broadway's important districts and replace the 99, both of which this LRT plan doesn't do. No matter what the cost of building it (which will definitely be far, far higher than "$500-700 million"), the plan results in a doubling of annual operating costs because you are now operating two separate lines including the 99 (SkyTrain would result in a net reduction of annual operating costs). Also, since half of the system's articulated bus fleet is used on the 99, if you don't eliminate the 99 then you miss the chance to redistribute those buses to be used somewhere else. So this is going to be a major blow to TransLink's regional B-Line expansion plans.

This is typical thinking from pro-LRT thinkers convinced that every empty grass median right of way or empty old railway ROW or whatever is perfect for accommodating some sort of grade-level rail line and absolutely must be used for one. I don't really think this particular idea is primed to get much traction (given that it's the same idea that's been brought up over and over again for years) but it's definitely something that's worth putting up a resistance to. Tell these two guys to give up already.

DKaz · #**9413** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 9:03 PM**

Edmonton's Valley Line LRT is $137 million/km, mind you that includes one river crossing, a short tunnel, and a couple of elevated sections including one grand elevated station. One downside is where the train is fully integrated into the neighbourhood with no barriers ie. most of the route, the train has to do the speed limit of the parallel road, but it at least has an advantage of having priority through intersections.

LRT has its use but to connect Commercial-Broadway and UBC is not one of them.

SpongeG · #**9414** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 9:39 PM**

So now I am confused, is this extension being built or not? has it been put on hold or still waiting for approval? why are these streetcar things coming out? are they trying to kill the extension now? can it be killed? I thought the feds approved it and it was all going ahead?

Migrant_Coconut · #**9415** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 9:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xd_1771

You can disqualify this on the basis of its routing without even bringing up a single SkyTrain-vs-LRT point. The reason we're expanding the Millennium Line west in the first place is to service all of Broadway's important districts and replace the 99, both of which this LRT plan doesn't do. No matter what the cost of building it (which will definitely be far, far higher than "$500-700 million"), the plan results in a doubling of annual operating costs because you are now operating two separate lines including the 99 (SkyTrain would result in a net reduction of annual operating costs). Also, since half of the system's articulated bus fleet is used on the 99, if you don't eliminate the 99 then you miss the chance to redistribute those buses to be used somewhere else. So this is going to be a major blow to TransLink's regional B-Line expansion plans.

And as mentioned the first time Fitch pitched this, 16th has already been fitted with (relatively) new water/sewer utilities; excavating and moving those would cancel out most of the cost savings. We haven't even discussed the stupidity of bypassing a major urban corridor in favour of SFHs and corner stores.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

So now I am confused, is this extension being built or not? has it been put on hold or still waiting for approval? why are these streetcar things coming out? are they trying to kill the extension now? can it be killed? I thought the feds approved it and it was all going ahead?

It's a done deal AFAIK. The only way to cancel it would be to somehow convince the new City Council/Mayors' Council members to pull a hard 180 and vote it down in favour of something stupid like this - exactly what Tweedledee and Tweedledumbass are trying to achieve here.

SpongeG · #**9416** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 10:02 PM**

ah ok. I thought it would have started already given they say it will be ready in 4 years?

Migrant_Coconut · #**9417** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 10:08 PM**

If all goes according to plan, the contractor will be picked and construction started next year (link).

Migrant_Coconut · #**9418** Posted **Oct 12, 2018, 10:21 PM**

I think I know where the Arbutus station is going.

LeftCoaster · #**9419** Posted **Oct 13, 2018, 12:50 AM**

I thought it was going on the south side of the street.

Would be nice to have two entrances, but one should be built into a new development.

aberdeen5698 · #**9420** Posted **Oct 13, 2018, 2:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

Except it wouldn't be running it mixed traffic. It would be more like a busway in the median with better detection systems for controlling intersections.

Doesn't change the fact that claiming a 100 km/h speed for LRT in that kind of implementation is completely disingenuous.