Canadian Airport Thread

[p_xavier]

I think that Pearson's worst issue is now the inedequate 25 year strategic plan. Sure it's bad now but it'll get worse.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by wave46

Pearson has a few weaknesses, I'll admit it. I don't think it's in the top 20 worst airports, however.

It suffers from things it can't really control (snow/storms) relative to some of the best airports in the world, but nothing exceptional in terms of the part of North America it resides in. The New York area airports and Chicago seem to be much worse in this regard.

The second knock against it is its popularity - it is experiencing the growing pains of running up near its capacity. As the slack is drawn out of the facilities and they're running close to (if not over) their designed capacity, things start to unravel. Gates become scarce, security lines get longer, washrooms stay less clean and peak season travel becomes more annoying.

I'd say the worst things about Pearson in my experience are the washrooms (which I chalk up to the above-mentioned reason) and the baggage return, which is unusually slow and I've no explanation for.

Otherwise it seems to be better than many crowded European airports and several US airports (specifically the ones in the NY area). It also ranks far above several scary airports in the developing world.

Sure, it's not super-fancy like Dubai, Seoul or Singapore. It gets the job done without being too painful. That's all I can ask for an airport.

Well put. I think the worst thing you can really say about Pearson is that it's not at the level of the big, glittery tier 1 airports you mentioned. I guess it kind of was for the first 5 or 6 years after T1 opened, but then it got really busy and started to feel a little more crowded and worn out. And of course it isn't new and shiny anymore. But still, it works well.

A little more elbow room would be a good thing, though. I don't know how far off YYZ is from breaking ground on a major expansion, but it feels like they're getting to the point where it's becoming necessary.

[ghYHZ]

After the Halifax to Heathrow flight on a ‘763 ended last spring and the new MAX8 took over that route……Air Canada still retained cargo capacity by doing an A-330-300 turn out of YUL to YHZ each afternoon. That has ended but now the schedule is showing a ‘763 doing YYZ-YHZ-YYZ.

And Condor continues FRA-YHZ-FRA on a ‘767 for the fall.

As my ‘333 was landing in Halifax last week I noted Korean Air on the cargo ramp.

20180924_145327 by ghYHZ, on Flickr

20180924_161109 by ghYHZ, on Flickr

There’s also been an increase in Cargo flights to China:

https://halifaxstanfield.ca/2018/08/halifax-stanfield-attracts-additional-cargo-flights-china/

[p_xavier]

Well that was quick...
http://aeronauticsonline.com/primera-air-flies-for-insolvency/

[LO 044]

Looks like Primera Air is out of business so a couple of fewer future flights to YUL and YYZ.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/new...ed-airline-stansted-airbus-a8563881.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/primera-air-filing-for-bankruptcy-2018-10

[zahav]

I feel like so much of the airline business is ego, experience says that most new ventures will fail yet so many start still. How many has Canada lost in just the last couple decades? Canada 3000, Jetsgo, Zip (folded into AC but still, it failed as a separate carrier), Canjet, Harmony, I mean it is pretty delusional for start-ups to think they are that different. And that's just short haul, long haul cheap airlines are just as bad. Zoom, Flyglobespan, Monarch, Primera, they all failed at the same thing, providing no frills cheap service long haul. Seriously wonder which banks ever give financing to these airlines with the industry track record as it is. Air Canada must be kicking up its heels in delight with another trans-Atlantic competitor dead. I have a feeling if Primera stayed around it would've put a dent into yields on the already low Rouge routes ex YYZ

[thenoflyzone]

The legacies are smiling, that's for sure.

WOW Air is next, unless they can secure some financing.

https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/news/2018/08/15/wow_air_seeks_investors/

Norwegian long haul's financials aren't in the best of shape either. They are supported entirely by the domestic European flying they do (Norwegian Air Shuttle).

Like i've said, low cost long haul still hasn't proven itself.

Sucks for the consumers though, especially those that bought tickets on Primera.

[wave46]

Increasing fuel prices, low-yielding passengers (it's not the business elite using these airlines) and rising interest rates will put long-haul low cost in a tight spot. They're doing alright on volume for now, but a recession could be the end of the line for a lot of these carriers.

The idea of low-cost short haul worked because there was a lot of fat in airline operations prior to this innovation. Now, everyone - including the legacy carriers - have squeezed out all the fat and charged for everything they reasonably can.

Fuel makes up half of the cost of a long-haul flight. There's simply not much one can do to mitigate that, so variable costs make up a much larger proportion of overall costs. There's also an upper limit to what these airlines can charge their price sensitive customers before they either choose not to fly or fly a regular airline.

[DrNest]

Information for anyone impacted by the Primera Air shutdown

If you, your friends or family have been impacted by the Primera Air shutdown please contact us on +1 800 862 8621 to book a Virgin Atlantic distressed traveller fare.

Bookings can be made from 2nd October up until 16th October, with travel available up to the 31st October. To access these fares, impacted customers will need to show proof of their previous Primera Air booking.

https://www.virginatlantic.com/us/en/travel-information/travel-news.html#accordParent1

Good to see Virgin Atlantic are stepping up to help get stranded passengers home.

I'm still a little shocked at how quickly Primera went under. I would have guessed they'd at least last a year before finding trans-Atlantic flights are great for the ULCC.

[nname]

Originally Posted by zahav

And that's just short haul, long haul cheap airlines are just as bad. Zoom, Flyglobespan, Monarch, Primera, they all failed at the same thing, providing no frills cheap service long haul.

You forgot Oasis Hong Kong

[zahav]

Ah yes Oasis, I knew I'd forget a couple lol! It's just baffling to me how every startup airline thinks they will be different, and how they can succeed where no one else did. I know business is about measured risk but come on, if airlines like Primera and WOW which have way more established routes can't even make a go of it, then what chances do others have?

[nname]

I'm unfamiliar with AC's service in YUL... but I found this in the schedule and don't remember seeing it... Is this new?

AC 814	7M8	YUL - BOD

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

I'm unfamiliar with AC's service in YUL... but I found this in the schedule and don't remember seeing it... Is this new?

AC 814	7M8	YUL - BOD

Yes, its new service. There were rumors of someone starting up that route.....Now confirmed. 4x weekly.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2018-10-...nadas-New-Seasonal-Service-From-Montreal

Also, AC summer 2019 mainline tweaks.

YUL-PVG/NRT/FRA get upgauged to B789, YUL-FCO gets upgauged to 450 seat 77W. LHR goes from a 789 to A333, decrease of 6 seats.

Air Canada in late-September 2018 filed additional update to its summer 2019 changes on long-haul routes. As of 02OCT18, planned Mainline changes for summer season includes the following.

Calgary – Frankfurt eff 31MAY19 777-200LR replaces 787-9, 1 daily
Montreal – Frankfurt eff 01JUN19 787-9 replaces -8, 1 daily
Montreal – London Heathrow eff 01MAY19 summer 2019 season operated by A330-300, replacing 787-9 in S18 (Actual booking continues to display 787-9, while schedule listing displays A330-300)
Montreal – Rome eff 01JUN19 450-seater 777-300ER replaces A330-300, 1 daily
Montreal – Shanghai Pu Dong eff 01JUN19 787-9 replaces -8, 1 daily
Montreal – Tokyo Narita eff 01JUN19 787-9 replaces -8, 1 daily
Toronto – Dubai eff 31MAR19 summer 2019 season operated by 787-9, replacing 777-200LR, 3 weekly
Toronto – Seoul Incheon eff 01JUN19 400-seater 777-300ER replaces 787-9, 1 daily
Toronto – Zurich eff 31MAR19 summer 2019 season operated by 787-9, replacing 777-300ER during peak season (Actual booking continues to display 777-300ER, while schedule listing displays 787-9)
Vancouver – Frankfurt eff 01JUN19 787-9 replaces -8, 1 daily
Vancouver – London Heathrow eff 01JUN19 Seasonal 2nd daily operated by 787-8, replacing -9 (Overall 1 daily each 787-8/-9)

Previously reported changes:
Toronto – Milan Malpensa 31MAR19 – 30MAY19 767 continues to operate during off-peak season, 3 weekly
Toronto – Mumbai eff 01MAY19 787-9 replaces 777-200LR, 4 weekly
Vancouver – Osaka Kansai eff 12MAY19 Seasonal service operated by Mainline 787-8, replacing rouge 767

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air...long-haul-service-changes-as-of-02oct18/

[thenoflyzone]

So much for AC waiting on Westjet to announce new routes.

Canada-Austria getting a huge bump.

AC takes over YYZ-VIE from OS. Year round B789, daily in the summer, 5x weekly in winter.

OS resumes VIE-YUL. Year round B763, daily in the summer, 5x weekly in winter.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2018-10-...-Canadas-New-Service-To-Austrias-Capital

AC-LH joint venture in full swing. I'll take Austrian over Primera any day of the week !

[p_xavier]

^ Happy to see YUL Asian flights are going well!

[Bourkky]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

LHR goes from a 789 to A333, decrease of 6 seats.

LHR was a 400 seater 777 all summer long and is still is until October 26th. Decrease of 108 seats.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Bourkky

LHR was a 400 seater 777 all summer long and is still is until October 26th. Decrease of 108 seats.

You are right. Airlineroute mistake i guess. Still, overall, a nice increase in seats across both atlantic and Pacific oceans from YUL. 20 million passengers by 2020 seems attainable.

[G.S MTL]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

You are right. Airlineroute mistake i guess. Still, overall, a nice increase in seats across both atlantic and Pacific oceans from YUL. 20 million passengers by 2020 seems attainable.

Personally I think YUL will hit 20 million by 2019 ! And yet another international tail at YUL ! Nice !

[zahav]

Getting a new tail and new destination is always the goal (either one or the other is good but both is the best). VIE and OS is a great addition, definitely better than Primera, RIP

Regarding BOD, the announcement shows the importance of wording. "Only network carrier offering non-stop transatlantic service from Bordeaux". TS operates seasonal service too and has for years, and its scheduled too, not charter. But adding that "network" makes AC seem more important I always wonder how TS does financially, its been around for ages but the rise of WS, Sunwing (for sun spots), and now AC gunning after more European routes must be having some effect behind the scenes with TS

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by G.S MTL

Personally I think YUL will hit 20 million by 2019 ! And yet another international tail at YUL ! Nice !

Edit: We might. It was a known fact that growth was going to slow in 2018 & 2019. Let's see what happens.

Originally Posted by zahav

Getting a new tail and new destination is always the goal (either one or the other is good but both is the best). VIE and OS is a great addition, definitely better than Primera, RIP

Regarding BOD, the announcement shows the importance of wording. "Only network carrier offering non-stop transatlantic service from Bordeaux". TS operates seasonal service too and has for years, and its scheduled too, not charter. But adding that "network" makes AC seem more important I always wonder how TS does financially, its been around for ages but the rise of WS, Sunwing (for sun spots), and now AC gunning after more European routes must be having some effect behind the scenes with TS

Glad to have VIE back. Gives my family one more 1 stop option to get from YUL to EVN. OS served YUL back in the late 90s with A310s and then switched to A332s/A343s in the early 2000s. Flew with them on YUL-VIE-EVN and back in 2002. Incidentally, they are keeping the same flight numbers to Montreal, OS73/74.

AC has always been clever in their wording. As for TS, those A321LRs cant come soon enough. The A310s need to go. A few mechanical issues last month caused several canceled flights. They had to charter some birds last minute. That can't be cheap. As for their financials, they are definately struggling a bit, but are still fighting for their fair share. They announced price hikes for next summer, but it will be tough, with more competition, especially from the LCCs at YUL/YYZ. Pretty sure TS was ecstatic when Primera folded.