Calgary International Airport II - Page 383

YYCFlier · #**7641** Posted **Sep 30, 2018, 7:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

The least you could do is say a very big "thank you" to Edmonton.

Edmonton doesn't have a choice

Besides, you're getting some love from the ULCC carriers up there.

suburbia · #**7642** Posted **Oct 1, 2018, 12:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

The least you could do is say a very big "thank you" to Edmonton.

Leduc (Edmonton), Red Deer, Airdrie - none of them really have a choice.

s211 · #**7643** Posted **Oct 1, 2018, 3:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Edmonton doesn't have a choice

Besides, you're getting some love from the ULCC carriers up there.

A race to the bottom? Yay, I guess?

BlaineN · #**7644** Posted **Oct 1, 2018, 3:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

What international? Most international traffic in Canada goes thru YVR and especially YYZ, and now YUL is a major player (they have more international than domestic) due to AC's massive expansion.

The secondary airports have sun destinations and little else. YOW has LHR and had a seasonal to FRA. YEG has flights to AMS and KEF and seasonal LGW. YWG is seasonal LGW. These are smaller airports though - YEG is half the size of YYC in terms of pax and YOW is half the size of YEG! YWG is the same as YOW. These are not hub airports. The hubs in Canada are YYZ > YVR > YUL > YYC. Although YYC and YUL are close, YUL is at least 10% bigger and has way more international traffic.

Well those qualify as international. I wasn't asking for a smug lecture on how YYZ/YVR/YUL are the only airports that do international flights. So back to my question, is international traffic down at those other airports.

YYCFlier · #**7645** Posted **Oct 1, 2018, 4:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaineN

Well those qualify as international. I wasn't asking for a smug lecture on how YYZ/YVR/YUL are the only airports that do international flights. So back to my question, is international traffic down at those other airports.

Nope, way up. Because Air Canada (except YYZ, which is also Air Canada but also because YYZ).

thenoflyzone · #**7646** Posted **Oct 1, 2018, 11:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

Nope, way up. Because Air Canada (except YYZ, which is also Air Canada but also because YYZ).

If we take year to date figures into account, international is down at all the airports BlaineN mentioned. (see below)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaineN

I haven't looked into this at all, but is international down at other non-AC hub airports? (YEG, YOW, YWG, etc..)

Yes.

YOW year to date (August) international down 1%
YEG year to date (August) international down 0.7%
YWG year to date (June) international down 5.2%

YYCFlier · #**7647** Posted **Oct 1, 2018, 1:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

If we take year to date figures into account, international is down at all the airports BlaineN mentioned. (see below)

Yes.

YOW year to date (August) international down 1%
YEG year to date (August) international down 0.7%
YWG year to date (June) international down 5.2%

Sorry, I thought he meant at Canada's hubs. Those are way up.

BlaineN · #**7648** Posted **Oct 1, 2018, 3:16 PM**

Thank you gentlemen.

FormerWingTipper · #**7649** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 12:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

The fundamentals are completely different. YYC is AC's smallest hub; YYC-NRT is all O&D traffic. Very few people are going to connect in YYC when they can get a nice 787 out of YVR or YUL. In addition, no one in the east is going to connect in YYC for a crappy old 767. In fact, many business travellers in YYC avoid this route and connect in YVR to get the better bird. YYC is bordering on focus city status for AC.

YYC is, on the other hand, WS's largest hub. There are many routes WS offers in YYC AC does not, except for the ultra-profitable ones. It can do this because it routes a lot of connecting traffic via YYC. If YYC-NRT works it will definitely not be O&D; they will be targetting a high amount of connecting traffic to fill the plane or it will fly empty. We saw in the winter schedule they continue to consolidate in YYC.

I don't think WS will have much trouble convincing leisure travellers to connect thru YYC because they will be sensitive to price. What will be interesting is whether or not they can fill their premium (and thus much more profitable) cabins with business travellers.

The nice thing is that WS can also scale the YYC operations as needed - for example, they can offer an NRT route daily, but they can alter the home airport, increasing YVR and YYZ and lowering YYC if needed if they are struggling with that routing. This is the strategy they use for LGW and it seems to work for them. We may see year round service in some new markets from WS, but it won't be daily or they will increase in summer. I think YYC-NRT is totally doable for WS, I would just hate if they did because it will kill the AC route. Too much competition on their routes means AC abandons YYC and dehubs it.

So you agree that there is no room for both AC and WS to offer daily service on the YYC-NRT route in the summer?

If that is the case, do you really believe that WS will challenge AC on that route? That would be quite the gamble to take, considering NRT is a Star Alliance hub and AC can offer the connectivity beyond NRT.

YYCFlier · #**7650** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 2:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FormerWingTipper

So you agree that there is no room for both AC and WS to offer daily service on the YYC-NRT route in the summer?

If that is the case, do you really believe that WS will challenge AC on that route? That would be quite the gamble to take, considering NRT is a Star Alliance hub and AC can offer the connectivity beyond NRT.

I think it depends. They may be able to do it if it's not daily. I don't know how much connecting traffic goes thru NRT via YYC. But if it's O&D, travellers will prefer a new 789 over a crappy 767. From what I know YYC-NRT in summer caters to a lot of Japanese tourists who would likely happily take WS.

Besides, AC appears like they are almost looking for a reason to let it go - they gave up the 788 to YUL over YYC and reduced YYC to seasonal. Do you really think they'd fight for it? I have no idea how profitable it is except they shifted capacity to YUL so clearly they figured they could make more money that way. Was the plan to drop it all along after the 767s exit the fleet?

Personally, I'd prefer AC keeps the route and WS goes to a different airport. I don't have enough information to speculate further - it really depends how much AC is willing to fight to maintain the market in YYC or if they will give it up if WS is more aggressive.

YYCFlier · #**7651** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 2:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acey

This is not even close to true. Like not even remotely close.

Do you know the stats Acey?

YYCFlier · #**7652** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 4:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acey

Not exact, but there's plenty of feed in from YOW, in from YYZ on 9 obviously, YEG, YXE, YQR, pretty much anything that lands in Calgary in time to get somebody onto 9 does so. YUL feed tanked obviously after their NRT flight started. On the Japan end, there are continuations on with NH but I'd have to look to see what the top destination is.

YYZ I get as there is a stop in YYC. But why wouldn't YEG/YXE/YQR just go to YVR?

FormerWingTipper · #**7653** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 5:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

[...]travellers will prefer a new 789 over a crappy 767. From what I know YYC-NRT in summer caters to a lot of Japanese tourists who would likely happily take WS.

I believe travellers care about price more than anything. I also believe that if you ask 100 random folks on the street in Japan that maybe 1 will have heard of the airline 'Westjet' - the other 99 may not even know it is referring to a Canadian-based air carrier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCFlier

But why wouldn't YEG/YXE/YQR just go to YVR?

Maybe 10% of passengers care about the type of aircraft. The other 90% care about price. If YYC-NRT is priced right on AC, passengers will take route.

Bokimon · #**7654** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 6:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chemist

Indeed. I was in the city of Huizhou for work this week (a city of 2m+ in Guangdong, about an hour by train from the provincial capital of Guangzhou) and while it had its own airport, it was the smallest airport I'd ever been to in China. No jetways, 5 stands for 737/A320 size jets, and maybe 25 passenger flights a day tops. Most air traffic in the region goes through the enormous airports at Shenzhen and Guangzhou.

Yeah China is on a whole world of their own, one of their one million city can have a non international airport and still be able to pull in double digits million figures for their annual pax traffic. Though this one does sound like a quiet airport with all the other big ones taking the traffic within like a 100km radius.

YYC has always been fortunate to pull above its own weight in both bum quantity and yield value for an insane amount of domestic/US and a decent bit of international for all these years. Remember the days when we used to have daily 77W's for LHR and FRA, plus BA 777 and LH A330/340 even for a short while? Heck in the summer times those asian charters would be flying in using JAL747s and KE777 combos..
I would not doubt some of those peak summer days where all of those flights minus the charters did have a healthy enough load, YYC truly felt big leagued when all those heavies were surrounding the old terminal tethering off the teets of the hammerheads processing up to 50,000 passengers per day.
Oh How much we have fallen since.. winter suspension, 3x seasonal, route terminations, and a new billion dollar terminal that has the same resilient flooring as the South Calgary Hospital.

Also that apron surrounded by abandoned disused cargo buildings of another era, they need to redevelop that area big time.

YYCFlier · #**7655** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 2:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FormerWingTipper

I believe travellers care about price more than anything. I also believe that if you ask 100 random folks on the street in Japan that maybe 1 will have heard of the airline 'Westjet' - the other 99 may not even know it is referring to a Canadian-based air carrier.

Maybe 10% of passengers care about the type of aircraft. The other 90% care about price. If YYC-NRT is priced right on AC, passengers will take route.

If this is about price, WS will do just fine selling the route in a 789. And for Japan I'd expect WS will re-sell through tour companies.

hollywoodcory · #**7656** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 3:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acey

Not exact, but there's plenty of feed in from YOW, in from YYZ on 9 obviously, YEG, YXE, YQR, pretty much anything that lands in Calgary in time to get somebody onto 9 does so. YUL feed tanked obviously after their NRT flight started. On the Japan end, there are continuations on with NH but I'd have to look to see what the top destination is.

Again I'll have to check how much this compares to the inbound feed for LHR or FRA, but it's most certainly not nothing.

I see a lot of connections to and from MNL via NRT, and also some connections from India as well.

LO 044 · #**7657** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 4:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acey

The numbers suggest that only you care about being in a brand new 787.

I told my parents to fly on 9 because of 2-3-2 and that's all they needed to hear. Y on an AC 787 sucks, period.

The only thing crappy about the 767 is that they keep breaking because they're the highest cycle frames in the world, but most fliers don't know that unless you're on 9 multiple times a year. Interiors are still mostly fine, and 2-3-2 with slightly older upholstery back from XM beats a 9-abreast Dreamer 8 days of the week.

I think the majority of reviews on the 787's aren't that positive regardless of the carrier. Won't that be the same with WestJet's 787's?

I'll get to fly AC's 767 next year (on the WAW-YYZ leg) probably for the last time and i am happy about that. Hopefully there isn't a substitution or a cancellation of the route.

MalcolmTucker · #**7658** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 4:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044

I think the majority of reviews on the 787's aren't that positive regardless of the carrier. Won't that be the same with WestJet's 787's?

I'll get to fly AC's 767 next year (on the WAW-YYZ leg) probably for the last time and i am happy about that. Hopefully there isn't a substitution or a cancellation of the route.

I thought WAW-YYZ was a Rouge route Or do they run both?

LO 044 · #**7659** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 6:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

I thought WAW-YYZ was a Rouge route Or do they run both?

AC "unRouged" this route starting this year and it remains that way in 2019. What will happen after that will be interesting. Will it be dropped or Rouged again or will they try to put a 788 on it is anyone's guess. I find AC and LO to be part of the same alliance on paper only. They really don't act as such in reality. From what "everyone says" Poland is a low yielding market so i was quite surprised when AC put mainline service on this route. It appears that AC would like to run LO out of YYZ because approximately 3 daily YYZ-WAW flights in the summer seems like overkill to me.

Deepstar · #**7660** Posted **Oct 2, 2018, 7:12 PM**

And the winning post goes to FormerWingTipper. For all the talk of which plane is better etc, most people here aren't seeing the big picture - that price is all that most people care about. 90% or likely more of the people out there have no idea what a 767 is, and have probably heard of the Dreamliner but don't know what it is. Out in the real world, most people aren't avgeeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FormerWingTipper

I believe travellers care about price more than anything. I also believe that if you ask 100 random folks on the street in Japan that maybe 1 will have heard of the airline 'Westjet' - the other 99 may not even know it is referring to a Canadian-based air carrier.

Maybe 10% of passengers care about the type of aircraft. The other 90% care about price. If YYC-NRT is priced right on AC, passengers will take route.