The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[Vin]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Well, Kinda. A lot of the new retail built either stays empty or is guaranteed to have a chain/franchise and very rarely an independent small business. However there is a ton of recently vacated or perpetually vacant old retail spaces throughout the city. A big part of it is the way retail space is taxed. In Vancouver you pay almost double which is ridiculous. Here retailers pay a base rent, of which a big chunk is pocketed by the owner of the space because the leaseholder pays the property taxes for the space on top of the base rent. In other cities your base rent includes property taxes. So while Vancouver lease rates are similar to other Canadian cities with thriving small retail, they pay a lot more in the end. It also boils down to properties in Vancouver are taxed for their best use of the land and not what it's currently being utilized for. So if i understand correctly if you have a standalone single storey retail building with parking and some greenspace that is in an area of the city that was until quite recently valued significantly less and was under no threat of redevelopment, suddenly now it's in a new neighborhood plan that allows 10 storeys plus multiple retail spaces and is now taxed as if that's what is on the land. If the retail space remains empty then the property owner can write it off as a business loss and has little incentive to find someone to lease the space. Most older commercial retail space in Vancouver is of the single storey variety with at least 1/3rd of the land as parking or other underutilized space.

This is a big reason if not the main reason why I have not started my business and am waiting until things correct and start to rebound after things bottom out. If all the crazy policies the US is creating come to fruition then the crash and subsequent rebound may happen sooner than later. if not it could take 5+ for this real estate based economic cycle to follow through. I just want interest rates to rise so we can have a normal economy not based on irresponsible borrowing.

From a Vancourier article:


https://www.vancourier.com/opinion/is-small-retail-dying-in-vancouver-1.23289483


https://www.westerninvestor.com/news/bri...aguing-vancouver-city-streets-1.23277354

From another article:
https://vanmag.com/city/city-informer-empty-stores-biggest-shopping-streets/

Agreed. Many of the problems we see today affecting retail in Vancouver is due to various City-caused problems, and not because of "market forces". The demand for retail is always there, but the main fault would be City policies that are driving businesses away. The City does not seem to have the necessary acumen to handle this problem: must have consulted the wrong type of "industry professionals". The worst thing is that no one in the City even cares about what is happening and propose new policies to combat the situation.

Perhaps the City should start taxing "Vacant shops", just like how they tax "Vacant homes". Either that or charge them hefty fines. And please, reduce the business tax rates already.

[SpongeG]

If retailers wanted to open downtown they would. Robson has many empty storefronts. The conversion of the theatre on Granville seems like it will never happen. Has the city held up anything there? or do retailers just not want to open downtown?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Robson's problem is its not kept up. Boutiques that flocked there in the 80's are dead and dying. Mom and pop shops that are left are more likely closing because the kids don't want to take them on, on top of the high rents. I am surprised that the spots next to Zara have stayed empty for so long. The old American Eagle space is just awful.

It's not a nice street to stroll anymore, same with Denman, they are uninviting, crowded or just empty creating a let's not linger too long vibe. In the 80's/90's that was where you went and hung out on a saturday night. Stores used to be more unique, now they are in every mall. The city has many more appealing places to go for a stroll now. The food options aren't great, they are all pretty expensive. The McDonalds where Versace etc is now was always busy. I went by that new ice cream place next to Joe Fortes and it was closed at 9 pm on a friday night, like that would be a prime time to offer something to people mulling around. The Starbucks stays busy until 11 or closing. The further west you go where the more affordable restaurants are have much more life to them.

I read an article last year about New York having the same problem and they were saying its because investors buy out the place, jack up the rent, the big brands come in and some move out and even if they sit empty they are just an investment and not treated as an income property and they know its the location that holds the value so they can afford to let the space site empty knowing one day a condo or some new development will come along and they cash out without hassle of tenants to worry about.

But boutiques seem to be flourishing in the malls, and if one fails, another takes over its space, relatively quickly too! Pacific Centre Mall is currently running at 100% if I'm not wrong. If you want vibrancy, food halls that open late in places such as Toronto and Melbourne are encouraging people to hang out in the city. We just don't have spaces that cater for that here, rather backward, don't you think?

The City needs to upzone many areas to allow for new constructions of many more retail outlets, preferably in larger podiums that have higher density structures to help offset owners/developer's costs. Rents can be improved that way and encourage businesses, even the moms and pops types, to come back downtown. We can see that in many cities around the world.

[SpongeG]

Granville street has a huge development just sitting there waiting for someone to say yes I want that space but they don't want it. They'd prefer to open in the suburbs where they do better sales. Forever 21 couldn't make it on Robson street because it's a suburb store. Boysco left for the suburbs because the suburbs don't offer what they do and they must be doing better sales in the suburban malls. Where should they add in all this retail that no one seems to want?

I don't think this is case of build it and they will come, because people don't shop the same way anymore. For myself i usually look an item up online check store stock and go get it and be done.

Malls the world over are evolving into what people want without the hassle of finding parking and having everything in one spot to keep them there longer.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Granville street has a huge development just sitting there waiting for someone to say yes I want that space but they don't want it. They'd prefer to open in the suburbs where they do better sales. Forever 21 couldn't make it on Robson street because it's a suburb store. Boysco left for the suburbs because the suburbs don't offer what they do and they must be doing better sales in the suburban malls. Where should they add in all this retail that no one seems to want?

I don't think this is case of build it and they will come, because people don't shop the same way anymore. For myself i usually look an item up online check store stock and go get it and be done.

Malls the world over are evolving into what people want without the hassle of finding parking and having everything in one spot to keep them there longer.

You have to see how run-down Granville Street is compared to the newer malls of the suburbs. Even if the building can be rehabilitated, there is no retail synergy nearby. The SROs and the rowdiness of the neighbourhood would not encourage the right kind of clientele to hang out in the area. It's a City/social problem that is plaguing businesses there, on top of the high rent. The City needs to clean up the area first, make structural changes to their business tax system, rezoning bylaws, etc, and then retail would flourish.

I only shop online for things I can't find at retail shops. They're not necessarily cheaper if you combine shipping and import taxes.

[SpongeG]

I don't shop online i just look online and pick up in the store which i think is pretty common at least among the people I know.

I'm not against your ideas i just don't see things flipping and changing no matter what the city does downtown because shoppers habits have changed and downtown Vancouver isn't really that appealing these days and there isn't much that is going to change that.

Granville street isn't that run down.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

If retailers wanted to open downtown they would. Robson has many empty storefronts. The conversion of the theatre on Granville seems like it will never happen. Has the city held up anything there? or do retailers just not want to open downtown?

I went to Metropolis at Metrotown 2 weeks ago and it was hopping!
That place was packed - and the variety of stores is broader than downtown has to offer.
Downtown has Nordstrom, Holt Renfrew and Hudson's Bay for the wealthy tourists - but in terms of specialty stores, Metropolis at Metrotown (and other suburban malls?) have large format stores like H&M, etc. in the mall.
Those big stores (with cheaper rent than downtown) probably have as much if not more selection than the stores downtown.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Vin

Perhaps the City should start taxing "Vacant shops", just like how they tax "Vacant homes". Either that or charge them hefty fines.

You should e-mail the next city council and suggest that. They're not going to do anything about it if they don't hear anything form people.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Malls the world over are evolving into what people want without the hassle of finding parking and having everything in one spot to keep them there longer.

That pretty much sums up Metrotown.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I don't shop online i just look online and pick up in the store which i think is pretty common at least among the people I know.

I'm not against your ideas i just don't see things flipping and changing no matter what the city does downtown because shoppers habits have changed and downtown Vancouver isn't really that appealing these days and there isn't much that is going to change that.

That describes a big chunk of my shopping too.

I don't live that far from Vancouver and I don't go there (much less downtown) that often. It's only when I have to that I do - why should I when I have most of what I want closer to home.

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Granville street isn't that run down.

There's a statement I've never heard before from either residents or tourists.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I went to Metropolis at Metrotown 2 weeks ago and it was hopping!
That place was packed - and the variety of stores is broader than downtown has to offer.
Downtown has Nordstrom, Holt Renfrew and Hudson's Bay for the wealthy tourists - but in terms of specialty stores, Metropolis at Metrotown (and other suburban malls?) have large format stores like H&M, etc. in the mall.
Those big stores (with cheaper rent than downtown) probably have as much if not more selection than the stores downtown.

No, H&M downtown carries a broader product line, as does Muji, the Bay, etc. They are flagships for a reason.

[officedweller]

Ahh, yes, forgot about the "flagship" designation for some stores.

********

Noticed that the Rexall Drugs at 33rd & Main St. closed down.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

No, H&M downtown carries a broader product line, as does Muji, the Bay, etc. They are flagships for a reason.

yes but you can look online and get it delivered to your local store with same day delivery with many of the big chains if they don't carry it. I'm all for flagships being downtown too but in many ways they've lost some cache in this retail age.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Ahh, yes, forgot about the "flagship" designation for some stores.

********

Noticed that the Rexall Drugs at 33rd & Main St. closed down.

They were closing down 40 stores:

https://www.chaindrugreview.com/rexall-shutter-40-stores/

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by s211

There's a statement I've never heard before from either residents or tourists.

compared to the 90's its way better. It's not pretty too look at, so many dumpy buildings but there are loads of places to eat and hang out. Back in the day it was 🞵🞵🞵 shops and gritty welfare bars and not somewhere to linger.

Remember when all the hookers hung out along Richards and Seymour? and all the pool halls. All the male hookers hung out in Yaletown and people shuffled from club to club. Sticking all the bars and clubs on Granville killed that part of nightlife though.

[SpongeG]

chutney bay was at the mcarthur glen outlet, he posts videos of malls and stuff with construction progress type stuff in the LA area where he lives

Today, I will take on a walking tour of McArthurGlen Designer Outlet which I reckon to be the most pretty outlet mall in the universe. It's built to look like different European Villages! Enjoy please if you will.

• Video Link

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

chutney bay was at the mcarthur glen outlet, he posts videos of malls and stuff with construction progress type stuff in the LA area where he lives



• Video Link

What's with the bizarre filming? Is his camera on acid?

[SpongeG]

lol his videos are always kinda weird, but lately, his camera seems to have gotten worse. It caught my eye cause i subscribed to his channel and that popped up. I imagine he will film some more local malls etc.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

They were closing down 40 stores:

https://www.chaindrugreview.com/rexall-shutter-40-stores/

Thanks - 10% of their stores - that's quite a bit.
Can't think that they have really good locations though.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Vin

You mean "I"?? Sure, we should all keep paying homage to the " industry professionals". Yup, we've all seen those "holier than thou" types, and keep on deriding me on the proposal for malls.

See that report about West End and many other parts of Vancouver having 10 to 15% vacancy rates? Well, I need to report to you that Pacific Centre is 100% filled. All well-managed city centre malls around the region are also having close to 0% vacancies.

You seem like the kinda person who would argue with their doctor after 10 minutes on WebMD.

I'm not holier than thau or anyone else, I just happen to have been doing this for many years and have a lot more inside information and experience in the industry than you.

If you want to keep believing that with 0 years of experience in the industry you know better than everyone in the entire industry that's one of the most arrogant stances I've ever heard but it affects me in no way so I don't really care. I don't even take it personally, I honestly was a lot like you when I was in highschool too, humility is something that comes later in life, or at least it did for me. Hopefully it comes some day for you.

To be honest he only reason I still call you out on your perpetual BS is for the sake of other rational forumers who come here to learn and discuss, not simply brigade their preconceived notions and troll the board.

As such I won't continue this painful discussion with you, especially since I already corrected you on this exact same point you're trying to make a year ago, but like I said you're not here to listen or learn, just regurgitate your opinion as though it is fact.

Once again, keep up the well thought out posting, this forum would be lost without your completely inept posts.

[HelloKitty]

Hi...

This isn't a Vancouver store but it's food for thought on how a bricks and mortar department store is trying to keep up/survive..

See Debenham's news link here... or bbc’s here.