Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Sparks needs restaurants and bars. That's what it needs. It should be an entertainment corridor with so many offices, (increasingly) condos, a subway line and a massive tourist attraction near by.

The city really hasn't done a good job working with property owners, zoning and pushing development in the direction it wants.

I don't understand why you think Sparks doesn't have restaurants and bars? Have you BEEN to Sparks street lately? Also the feds are responsible for leasing space on Sparks, and haven't done a great job, but I don't think its terrible. Just needs more residential to keep people there past 5pm.

4 or 5 Restaurants, including 2 or 3 bars WITH patios on EACH main block seems like a lot to me. How many more would you like?

From east to west:
Block 1:
1. D'Arcy McGees (patio)
2. Riviera
3. 73 North Lounge (patio)
4. Vie Bella
Block 2:
1. Bridgehead
2. Freshii (patio)
3. Subway
4. South Block Whiskey Bar
5. Nates (patio)
Block 3:
1. Bier Markt (patio)
2. Tims
3. Cock and Lion (patio)
4. Brixtons (closed?)
Other Blocks (to the west of Bank)
1. 3 Brewers (patio)
2. Corner Kitchen
3. Manhattans (patio)
4. Clay Pot?

[MichelKazan]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Block 2:
1. Bridgehead
2. Freshii (patio)
3. Subway
4. South Block Whiskey Bar
5. Nates (patio)

You forgot The Sushi Shop and that sandwich place on the north side of Sparks in the Promenade Building (can't remember the name)

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Block 3:
1. Bier Markt (patio)
2. Tims
3. Cock and Lion (patio)
4. Brixtons (closed?)

Brixton's is open and well. Just seems to have sporadic hours.

[McC]

Originally Posted by MichelKazan

Brixton's is open and well. Just seems to have sporadic hours.

It was Farm Team Kitchen and Cellar, or something like that, next door to the west, that closed. I think they also had a patio.

[lrt's friend]

Restaurant districts are not the end all. It has become an issue in the ByWard market that food and other specialty retailers are being pushed out. That is great for evening pedestrian traffic but not so good in the day time. Diversity makes for a more interesting area.

[McC]

Anyway, moving back towards the direction of the theme of this thread. I was just thinking this morning as I rolled past the Flats that it's a shame the Rendezvous-NCC negotiations are proceeding so slowly, because this delay in the Confederation Line would be a fine time to put in the footings and structures and whatever else might be needed to allow for the work to cover over the line through the Flats to proceed with minimal disruption when the time comes. Oh well.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by McC

Anyway, moving back towards the direction of the theme of this thread. I was just thinking this morning as I rolled past the Flats that it's a shame the Rendezvous-NCC negotiations are proceeding so slowly, because this delay in the Confederation Line would be a fine time to put in the footings and structures and whatever else might be needed to allow for the work to cover over the line through the Flats to proceed with minimal disruption when the time comes. Oh well.

Quite right. I'm sure they'll be able to do it with minimal distribution as they did in Calgary with the new library on top of the LRT line, but it will likely have been cheaper to build while the line is not yet fully operational.

[McC]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm sure they'll be able to do it with minimal distribution

This town does not have the kind of track record of rebuilding things without shutting them down at great length that would inspire that level of confidence in this guy.
Transitway ROW for LRT
Even a reasonable hand-drawn facsimile of rapid transit service to Lees, Train and Cyrville stations for LRT
Queen St for LRT (Rideau is different, with the sudden unexpected disaster)
Trillium Line multiple times for upgrades
Harmer St bridge
and it's not just City projects:
History, Nature and S&T Museums
Voyageurs Pathway
Ongoing series of rebuilds in the Parliamentary Precinct

I'm sure you can think of others...

Sometimes a full shutdown is the right way to do things, and sometimes the shutdown gets drawn out for perfectly understandable reasons, but the cumulative effect is that things get shut down for a long time when changes are required.

(the MTO's 417 overpass rapid replacement program is a fine counterpoint to mine)

[J.OT13]

But in this case, the private sector will be covering the line, and not the City. If they are instructed to cover the corridor without disrupting service, I believe they can do it.

They simply have to build a parking garage on the south side, which shouldn't cause any disruptions, and a wall on the north side, that might require a few minor shutdowns. They then have to deck it over.

I could envision a few weekend closures over the construction period, but not much more.

The examples that you gave are different. Those were all government project built with financial and time restrictions.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

That's not line 2 though.

i found it under a list of light metro systems in wikipedia through the same link

[McC]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

But in this case, the private sector will be covering the line, and not the City. If they are instructed to cover the corridor without disrupting service, I believe they can do it.

The private sector was instructed to complete surface works on Queen St by June 2017; the private sector is frequently instructed not to close sidewalks when building infill and condo developments, yet it happens all the time. They plead that it's the best way to do X and to get to a desirable outcome, and the City gives them a pass. The private sector doesn't have magic powers, but it does have strong incentives to find efficiencies through means like externalizing costs onto others.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We already restaurant districts downtown, Elgin and Byward Market and I expect Lebreton will become one. Sparks needs a more diverse mix so that it will be lively both in the datetime and at night.

Part of the problem is that our transit system has failed to attract enough people downtown. I am not convinced that the Confederation Line will not make enough of a difference because not enough people will have a one seat ride downtown. I am not moaning about the loss of express buses. That is not what I am talking about. Our downtown area still needs broader access and more frequent service than we are proposing and bus cutbacks on central routes is the exact opposite thing to do if we hope to bring people back downtown.

I am thinking that there will be an increase from before. Once Phase 2 is open, it will really attract people to the downtown area.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

i found it under a list of light metro systems in wikipedia through the same link

The site that the table is sourced from lists both lines as "Light Rail".

http://www.lrta.org/world/worlda-e.html#CA

I would still argue that the Confederation Line is light metro (it is more like the REM than the Eglington LRT), but definitely not the Trillium Line.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by McC

The private sector was instructed to complete surface works on Queen St by June 2017; the private sector is frequently instructed not to close sidewalks when building infill and condo developments, yet it happens all the time. They plead that it's the best way to do X and to get to a desirable outcome, and the City gives them a pass. The private sector doesn't have magic powers, but it does have strong incentives to find efficiencies through means like externalizing costs onto others.

There's a big difference between building a subway station and covering a surface line with 2 walls and a roof. Although LeBreton requires more track to be covered compared to Calgary, this is arguably a simpler project because we only have a road way over-top, not an entire building.

The site is also less contained than in Calgary, or condo projects for that matter.

I'm confident they'll be able to get it done with possibly a few closures over the weekend and possibly a full closure of the MUPs along the line. I agree it would have been easier to do before the full opening, but it is still possible. It's been proven the world over multiple times.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I don't understand why you think Sparks doesn't have restaurants and bars? Have you BEEN to Sparks street lately? Also the feds are responsible for leasing space on Sparks, and haven't done a great job, but I don't think its terrible. Just needs more residential to keep people there past 5pm.

4 or 5 Restaurants, including 2 or 3 bars WITH patios on EACH main block seems like a lot to me. How many more would you like?

Look at the list:

https://www.sparkslive.com/eats-drinks

There needs to be a focus on pushing towards the types of establishments that gets people to sit and relax there. Coffee shops and fast food joints aren't really going to help build a convivial atmosphere. You get in and get out.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I don't understand why you think Sparks doesn't have restaurants and bars? Have you BEEN to Sparks street lately? Also the feds are responsible for leasing space on Sparks, and haven't done a great job, but I don't think its terrible. Just needs more residential to keep people there past 5pm.

4 or 5 Restaurants, including 2 or 3 bars WITH patios on EACH main block seems like a lot to me. How many more would you like?

From east to west:
Block 1:
1. D'Arcy McGees (patio)
2. Riviera
3. 73 North Lounge (patio)
4. Vie Bella
Block 2:
1. Bridgehead
2. Freshii (patio)
3. Subway
4. South Block Whiskey Bar
5. Nates (patio)
Block 3:
1. Bier Markt (patio)
2. Tims
3. Cock and Lion (patio)
4. Brixtons (closed?)
Other Blocks (to the west of Bank)
1. 3 Brewers (patio)
2. Corner Kitchen
3. Manhattans (patio)
4. Clay Pot?

I don't think anyone disagrees that Sparks is reasonably lively during office hours, but how many of those are consistently open in the evening?

I don't understand how more residents would help much. How many businesses can a few hundred residents support?

[SkeggsEggs]

Didn't they close the Trillium Line periodically when building the Carleton parking garage?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don't think anyone disagrees that Sparks is reasonably lively during office hours, but how many of those are consistently open in the evening?

I don't understand how more residents would help much. How many businesses can a few hundred residents support?

Which is why you need a lot more than a few hundred residents nearby.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Which is why you need a lot more than a few hundred residents nearby.

There isn't much room. The federal government is sort of in the way.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs

Didn't they close the Trillium Line periodically when building the Carleton parking garage?

Correct.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don't think anyone disagrees that Sparks is reasonably lively during office hours, but how many of those are consistently open in the evening?

I don't understand how more residents would help much. How many businesses can a few hundred residents support?

We need to make downtown more attractive to a broader audience, both in the daytime and the evening. I lament that they closed all the movie theatres downtown. I am not a bar person, but I like doing a movie and dinner. I did it this evening. I used to go to the World Exchange, which gave us an excuse to try a restaurant downtown. It is symptom of the decline of downtown and how it does not attract people from the broader city like it used to.

We have made parking more difficult and more expensive, but the part of the city with direct all-day transit to downtown is about to plummet. I know the 'transfers are good for us' crowd on this site, but the average joe does not like transfers especially when service is not frequent. As we all know, the frequent network does not extend beyond 6 pm. We might as well roll up the sidewalks for the evening.