Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[OTSkyline]

I think what is upsetting the City and residents even more is the fact that the date is being pushed back - again - so shortly after it just was.

If a couple of months ago they would've said "we can't meet the May handover date unfortunately, it will be Nov - ready for January" - that's one thing.

But the fact that they pushed it back to Nov and are now pushing it back again is the "double whammy". They should've known back then that a Nov service date was either unlikely or VERY tight. Why disappoint the city and residents twice?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I think what is upsetting the City and residents even more is the fact that the date is being pushed back - again - so shortly after it just was.

If a couple of months ago they would've said "we can't meet the May handover date unfortunately, it will be Nov - ready for January" - that's one thing.

But the fact that they pushed it back to Nov and are now pushing it back again is the "double whammy". They should've known back then that a Nov service date was either unlikely or VERY tight. Why disappoint the city and residents twice?

Remember that RTG originally thought the November 2nd date was more than ample and they were suggesting to the city that an earlier date was possible. The city chose November 2nd to avoid what is now actually happening. I guess it could be worse.

[silvergate]

The city has had inspectors on site. How is it possible that no one, up until last week, was willing to go to their superior and mention the fact that they didn't see it being completed on time. This strikes me as a bunch of people sticking their heads in the sand.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by silvergate

The city has had inspectors on site. How is it possible that no one, up until last week, was willing to go to their superior and mention the fact that they didn't see it being completed on time. This strikes me as a bunch of people sticking their heads in the sand.

It's usually managers that want to keep things quiet. I'm not surprised at all of the current situation.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by silvergate

The city has had inspectors on site. How is it possible that no one, up until last week, was willing to go to their superior and mention the fact that they didn't see it being completed on time. This strikes me as a bunch of people sticking their heads in the sand.

The inspectors’ jobs are to make sure the construction is to code, not to track progress. RTG will have had a project schedule that shows the critical path being completed on time. Obviously something happened to cause them to go from “we have more than enough time” 9 months ago to “OMG we are going to be late again.” We know about the computers but what else happened at Rideau since then.

[Vixx]

Anyone even remotely following this project knew the timeline would be pushed back. And as mentioned, the fact that some portions failed is regular routine for such a large scale project that had a relatively tight deadline.

My issue stems from the measly $1 million fine which is just a small slap on the wrist and the mid winter opening now. It will no doubt he a gong show when it opens now. Just imagine its -30 and a winter storm is rolling in while its opening day. The media will then write about the "poor timing and poor planning coordinates on par with Canada Day 150".

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

As for the City...... Duh! Less info is good-gooder-goodest (as far as they're concerned) !

I posted a summary of the August Q2 memo to FEDCO back in this thread (#7962) that I obtained from K.E.'s support staff in response to if they knew where on City I could find it/them, and have just posted the full PDF (10 pg.) at :

https://www.otrainfans.ca/forum/topic/30-revenue-service-availability-date-for-confederation-line/

FYI, Shane has posted the September FEDCO update deck there as well, also PDF (44 pg.).

So..... EnJoy?

Awesome, thank you!

Originally Posted by kmcamp

It would inspire more confidence if they could actually complete a station. All the Eastern stations are 99.9% done, yet are missing details like entrance signage, the lollipop entrance post, the graphic overlay on the lanterns, and glass and composite panels here and there

This close to the supposed handover at least some stations should be done, not "done" with air quotes

Manconi explained the missing pains of glass; that to get equipment in and out of the station while they finish the work inside.

Woth listening to the FEDCO meeting on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9EdlogNKCE

You can follow the Power Point as he describes the stations and issues near the beginning of the audio recording. PDF can be found on the page below, post from Monday September 10 01:54 pm (thanks again Shane!).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

But the fact that they pushed it back to Nov and are now pushing it back again is the "double whammy". They should've known back then that a Nov service date was either unlikely or VERY tight. Why disappoint the city and residents twice?

It 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. But it's also the nature of these types of contracts. They are eager to handover as quickly as possible so they can get paid. So they might pledge a date earlier than they might be capable of delivering sometimes, in the hopes of snagging that progress payment.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Remember that RTG originally thought the November 2nd date was more than ample and they were suggesting to the city that an earlier date was possible. The city chose November 2nd to avoid what is now actually happening. I guess it could be worse.

We have to separate two issues. The vehicles. Like it or not issues like that happen. Parts go missing or don't get delivered on time or are defective. So it was likely they would meet the vehicle requirements by Nov 2nd. The real issue here is Rideau. I am curious if they cut back on resources because they had slack or whether they have deficiencies that really set them back. It's pretty obvious that they cut back on work on all the other stations to match that November 2nd deadline.

Originally Posted by silvergate

The city has had inspectors on site. How is it possible that no one, up until last week, was willing to go to their superior and mention the fact that they didn't see it being completed on time. This strikes me as a bunch of people sticking their heads in the sand.

Listen to the brief. The city knew August 17 that RTG was going to be late. The confirmation from RTG came last Friday.

Originally Posted by Vixx

Anyone even remotely following this project knew the timeline would be pushed back. And as mentioned, the fact that some portions failed is regular routine for such a large scale project that had a relatively tight deadline.

My issue stems from the measly $1 million fine which is just a small slap on the wrist...

It's not just $1 million. RTG is also paying for all the costs of the added buses after the missed deadline. That would probably work out to several million per month. That's the real motivator for RTG.

Originally Posted by Vixx

and the mid winter opening now. It will no doubt he a gong show when it opens now. Just imagine its -30 and a winter storm is rolling in while its opening day. The media will then write about the "poor timing and poor planning coordinates on par with Canada Day 150".

Yep. That's what's really scary. There's a silver lining though. RTG will now have to do 12 days continuous testing, possibly in January. So we'll see a system tested for winter if they end up that late.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Woth listening to the FEDCO meeting on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9EdlogNKCE

You can follow the Power Point as he describes the stations and issues near the beginning of the audio recording. PDF can be found on the page below, post from Monday September 10 01:54 pm (thanks again Shane!).

Truly is worthwhile. Was very informative. Also made me feel a little more confident. The city does seem to have done a decent job of oversight with that independent advisory panel.

[Truenorth00]

So what's your bet on dates?

Mine is Feb 2nd for start of revenue service.

[Buggys]

Beginning of the spring service change, for full revenue service without the transitway bus routes that the LRT is meant to replace! ;-)

[acottawa]

May

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Beginning of the spring service change, for full revenue service without the transitway bus routes that the LRT is meant to replace! ;-)

I wouldn't doubt this.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Buggys

Beginning of the spring service change, for full revenue service without the transitway bus routes that the LRT is meant to replace! ;-)

That's beyond the first quarter. And the cost incurred would be huge. If it takes that long, RTG and the city are likely heading to court over costs of the delay.

Hopefully, not the likely scenario. We'll know if they decide to revert bus routes.

[rocketphish]

Revelation about LRT delay came after bus route changes, mayor says

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: September 12, 2018

LRT-related bus route changes happened before the city knew for sure there would be a delay in opening the Confederation Line, Mayor Jim Watson said Wednesday.

“We didn’t know the timing was off and it wasn’t in a co-ordinated fashion,” Watson said Wednesday at city hall.

The changes to the bus routes earlier this month were made in preparation for LRT. The entire transit network has been redesigned to take into account the $2.1-billion LRT line between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair station.

The LRT system won’t open in November as hoped. In fact, the 12.5-kilometre rail line might not launch until March. All the city knows is LRT will be ready in the first quarter of the new year, but there’s no start date.

Watson was the first municipal politician to receive information suggesting the timeline was potentially off the rails. He caught wind of problems near the end of August and pulled LRT bosses into his office to, as he described it, “give everyone a good kick in the pants” to find out why the Rideau Transit Group’s timeline didn’t match the city’s independent assessment.

OC Transpo forged ahead with the scheduled route changes on Sept. 2.

RTG proposed a new LRT construction timeline last Friday, confirming there would be a 28-day delay to handing over the transit system to the city, which needs until the new year to test and commission the service.

Councillors are wondering if the city could have put the brakes on the bus route changes.

Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper said it would have been “heartless” for the city to implement changes to the bus routes while knowing there would be a long delay to the LRT.

“I’m asking the same question everyone else is,” Leiper said.

Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney said she also questioned why the bus route changes went through when it seemed obvious to the city that trains wouldn’t be running in November.

Like Leiper, McKenney is unhappy with the trimmed Route 11, which runs through both councillors’ wards.

Route 11 used to run between Bayshore Shopping Mall and the Rideau Centre. As of Sept. 2, the route was squeezed to run between Lincoln Fields and Elgin Street.

Leiper said he was fine with the route changes happening this month if LRT launched in November since the train would run to the Rideau Centre. Now, though, Rideau Centre-bound transit customers on Route 11 must walk from Elgin to the mall for at least part of the winter.

According to Leiper, it’s “unacceptable for people to have to do that walk” between Elgin Street and the mall in wintry weather.

John Manconi, the city’s transportation general manager who oversees Transpo, said earlier this week his staff would review the route changes.

The challenge for Transpo is finding a solution that doesn’t hurt its budget while also satisfying customers who will wait longer for LRT.

Knoxdale-Merivale Coun. Keith Egli, council’s transportation chairman and a member of the transit commission, said he looked forward to what Manconi would bring back to the table after taking another look at the routes.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-came-after-bus-route-changes-mayor-says

[rocketphish]

LRT builder should explain delay publicly, councillor says

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: September 12, 2018

The international consortium of companies building the $2.1-billion LRT system should answer questions from city politicians in a public forum about the latest delay, one council member says.

Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper said it would be a “show of good faith” to have representatives of the Rideau Transit Group appear to tell politicians what’s causing the delays.

There is more accountability “when you get to look at the decision-makers in the eye,” Leiper said.

No one from RTG was sitting beside transportation general manager John Manconi on Monday, when he delivered the news to council members that the Confederation Line opening would be delayed until the first quarter of 2019 instead of launching in November 2018. Councillors heard that RTG couldn’t find two control computers for two trains and that significant construction work was still required at Rideau Station.

End-to-end testing using all of the two-car trains on the communication-based trail control system is also needed. The city won’t accept fewer than the full fleet of 34 train cars for Day 1 of operations.

The main partners in RTG aren’t slouches. ACS Infrastructure Canada, EllisDon and SNC-Lavalin are major international firms. Another big company, Alstom, is providing the trains to RTG.

It might be hard to convince Mayor Jim Watson that RTG needs to give its side of the story in a public forum. The mayor said the “recognized proper approach” was to have the contractor report to senior staff, who would then report to council members.

“They have a responsibility to report to our staff and our staff report to city council and that’s the system we have developed and I think that’s the system that makes the most sense,” Watson said.

“We have to have our staff held accountable at the council table, just as we have literally thousands of contracts — none of this magnitude, obviously — that are done by private consortiums. They report to our staff, who report to council. We don’t have paving contractors and bridge builders coming (and) appearing before a committee in council.”

The city designed the contract so that it handled LRT communications, but RTG hasn’t been silent during the project.

In many cases, RTG has provided emailed statements about construction matters, such as failed building code inspections and non-conformance reports. RTG managers have been available to explain what happened when a gas line was struck downtown in 2017 and also when the first delay was announced last December.

However, this week it has been hard to get in touch with someone at RTG to give the company’s explanation for the new delay.

RTG was contacted again Wednesday to see if the consortium would comment on the request to appear in front of council members. There was no response.

Mayoral candidate Clive Doucet called for more transparency on the LRT project. Doucet said that, if he won the Oct. 22 municipal election, he would make all LRT-related deals public since “transparency will the hallmark of my administration.”

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/lrt-builder-should-explain-delay-publicly-councillor-says

[bikegypsy]

Considering how long it took the Azure trains to take off in Montreal, I would say March-April.

[lrt's friend]

Frankly, stopping Route 11 at Elgin instead of Rideau is just going to force people to walk further. Most people will not bother to descend into the subway just to go a couple of blocks. This is part of normal behaviour to avoid transfers when possible. Sorry, this is a service cut and nothing else. This is what I predicted, that there would be real service cuts with the start-up of the Confederation Line and it is coming true.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Manconi explained the missing pains of glass; that to get equipment in and out of the station while they finish the work inside.

Woth listening to the FEDCO meeting on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9EdlogNKCE

You can follow the Power Point as he describes the stations and issues near the beginning of the audio recording. PDF can be found on the page below, post from Monday September 10 01:54 pm (thanks again Shane!).

I know why there's missing panes of glass, but my point was that at least a few stations should be totally complete, hence not needing construction access via the windows.

Minor details can actually take a long time to complete, which is why I'm concerned.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

That's beyond the first quarter. And the cost incurred would be huge. If it takes that long, RTG and the city are likely heading to court over costs of the delay.

Hopefully, not the likely scenario. We'll know if they decide to revert bus routes.

I'm betting May, a full year behind schedule. I don't think RTG is going to finish until sometime mid Q1, and testing and such will push it to may.

In further gloomy predictions, the fallout will cause delays in signing stage 2, pushing all of it out at least a year, and potentially more as Ford might see it as an excuse to end the funding agreement

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I'm betting May, a full year behind schedule. I don't think RTG is going to finish until sometime mid Q1, and testing and such will push it to may.

In further gloomy predictions, the fallout will cause delays in signing stage 2, pushing all of it out at least a year, and potentially more as Ford might see it as an excuse to end the funding agreement

Good Day.

Yeah... I'd go for actual customers in May as well <snort>, barring an actual, sensible, hold-down-the-messups services overlap (too much to hope for !).

As for delay on 2, not really.... it could be signed up front, and it's already phased somewhat with the T-Line getting off the ground first anyway. Prep work was already going to occupy some time for east, the second off the ground, and the west legs were to be the biggest headaches and last off the ground for full mess-it-all-up construction detours. So I really don't see much more delay in signing.
Sooner the better for exactly the reason you note. IMHO.

<sigh>.