New Downtown Calgary Arena

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

My sense is that after citizens vote down going after the 2026 Olympics they'll get serious. If they don't the Flames will leave.

I actually kinda hope the Flames leave. It would be a shot in the arm for so many other aspects of the local economy, as the vast amounts of disposable income currently funneling to a few billionaires will instead move to thousands of smaller businesses.

[kiwi]

Just curious where do you guys see the flames playing 5 years from now?

[sammyd]

Originally Posted by kiwi

Just curious where do you guys see the flames playing 5 years from now?

Saddledome

[milomilo]

If we are lucky, another city.

[SpongeG]

New Victoria Park arena could cost up to $600M, Calgary committee hears

Council committee heard cost estimate for 20,000 seat arena

Scott Dippel · CBC News · Posted: Dec 14, 2018 7:09 PM MT | Last Updated: December 14



This rendering of a proposed arena in Victoria Park shows how it would fit into the streetscape that the Calgary
Municipal Land Corporation is planning on Olympic Way. This is the view from 14th Avenue S.E. (Rossetti/Calgary Flames)


It could cost up to $600 million to build a new multi-purpose arena in east Victoria Park to replace the Saddledome.

Michael Brown, the head of the Calgary Municipal Land Corporation (CMLC), told a city council committee Friday afternoon
the price range for a new 20,000 seat arena would be $550 million to $600 million.

Brown said that figure is based on the building concept provided by the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation (CSEC).

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/c...e9L6KgpyEIzLcTxbO1eOwKMsvGKXoZsq0keHFbuE

[YYCguys]

When/if BMO expansion, Event Centre, and Green Line come to Victoria Park, the place will be abuzz with activity! It will go a long ways to improving the area. I’ve only strolled through it once in the 18 years I’ve lived here. It’s pretty depressing at the moment.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

New Victoria Park arena could cost up to $600M, Calgary committee hears

Council committee heard cost estimate for 20,000 seat arena

Scott Dippel · CBC News · Posted: Dec 14, 2018 7:09 PM MT | Last Updated: December 14



This rendering of a proposed arena in Victoria Park shows how it would fit into the streetscape that the Calgary
Municipal Land Corporation is planning on Olympic Way. This is the view from 14th Avenue S.E. (Rossetti/Calgary Flames)


It could cost up to $600 million to build a new multi-purpose arena in east Victoria Park to replace the Saddledome.

Michael Brown, the head of the Calgary Municipal Land Corporation (CMLC), told a city council committee Friday afternoon
the price range for a new 20,000 seat arena would be $550 million to $600 million.

Brown said that figure is based on the building concept provided by the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation (CSEC).

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/c...e9L6KgpyEIzLcTxbO1eOwKMsvGKXoZsq0keHFbuE

I always did find it strange how the Flames and the City could say with so much confidence how much the arena was going to cost without even have a location or a design, and as I suspected it was a complete guess. This latest number sounds like a more accurate guess, but still a guess.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

When/if BMO expansion, Event Centre, and Green Line come to Victoria Park, the place will be abuzz with activity! It will go a long ways to improving the area. I’ve only strolled through it once in the 18 years I’ve lived here. It’s pretty depressing at the moment.

That's why the city has always felt victoria park was the best place for the arena. The things you mentioned, the major 17th avenue project bringing it through all the way till Olympic way, the underpass leading to teh NMC and library beyond that. It will be one rocking area.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I actually kinda hope the Flames leave. It would be a shot in the arm for so many other aspects of the local economy, as the vast amounts of disposable income currently funneling to a few billionaires will instead move to thousands of smaller businesses.

hahaha you never fail to disappoint with your views. Pure entertainment.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by milomilo

If we are lucky, another city.

[BlaineN]

Originally Posted by kiwi

Just curious where do you guys see the flames playing 5 years from now?

They'll be here. They'd be stupid to leave, and the city would be stupid to let them leave. Those who want them to leave should go take a trip to Winnipeg, and ask them if it's a good idea.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by BlaineN

They'll be here. They'd be stupid to leave, and the city would be stupid to let them leave. Those who want them to leave should go take a trip to Winnipeg, and ask them if it's a good idea.

milomilo will be quick to point out that London England doesn't have a hockey team, and they are an alpha world city.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by suburbia

milomilo will be quick to point out that London England doesn't have a hockey team, and they are an alpha world city.

Troll.

But it is interesting how in Europe the whole 'team threatening to leave city thing' isn't a thing. The idea of Manchester United packing up and moving to Birmingham is absurd, and the result is that local cities don't have to pick up the tab when a team decides their original tax payer paid for head office isn't good enough anymore, and the cost of sports facilities is more reasonable.

It doesn't have to be this way, if cities just didn't give in to their demands the sports corporations would have to operate like normal businesses. So if the Flames do decide to throw their toys out the pram, despite the very generous offer from the city, then they shouldn't let the door hit them on their way out. Whatever marginal economic cost we pay (don't believe what the Flames say about their value to the city) would be worth it.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Except the city offer wasn't generous at all. It had a real value of near $0.



We will see what happens with this round.

[milomilo]

Only if you assume the Flames shouldn't pay property taxes.

[BlaineN]

Actually that's not true, it happens all the time. It's just as common as it is in North America.
Smaller teams throughout Europe leaving to move to other cities, or other stadiums within the same city over financial disagreements is fairly common.

It doesn't happen with the super teams like RM, Barca, Man U, Bayern, etc.. but that would be like Leaf or Habs moving, or the NY Yankees moving.

Originally Posted by milomilo

Troll.

But it is interesting how in Europe the whole 'team threatening to leave city thing' isn't a thing. The idea of Manchester United packing up and moving to Birmingham is absurd, and the result is that local cities don't have to pick up the tab when a team decides their original tax payer paid for head office isn't good enough anymore, and the cost of sports facilities is more reasonable.

worth it.

Sports teams are private enterprises, but they offer a public benefit that's different than a regular corporation. A large amount of people in Calgary will use an arena for some purpose at some point. Even if you're not a hockey fan, there's a good chance you're a music fan. Without a pro sports team like the Flames there is no reason or financially viable business case to build an arena, so forget about concerts, monster truck rallys, lacrosse games, or ice capades, etc...

All those who think we'd be better off without the Flames need to realize that the only way we'd have ever gotten an arena in the first place or will ever get a new arena is 100% with public money. At least with a pro sports team you can have someone else pay for part of it, and also have someone else be responsible for operating it and owning a depreciating asset.

Originally Posted by milomilo

It doesn't have to be this way, if cities just didn't give in to their demands the sports corporations would have to operate like normal businesses. So if the Flames do decide to throw their toys out the pram, despite the very generous offer from the city, then they shouldn't let the door hit them on their way out. Whatever marginal economic cost we pay (don't believe what the Flames say about their value to the city) would be worth it.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Only if you assume the Flames shouldn't pay property taxes.

They don't right now.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by BlaineN

Without a pro sports team like the Flames there is no reason or financially viable business case to build an arena, so forget about concerts, monster truck rallys, lacrosse games, or ice capades, etc...
....
All those who think we'd be better off without the Flames need to realize that the only way we'd have ever gotten an arena in the first place or will ever get a new arena is 100% with public money. At least with a pro sports team you can have someone else pay for part of it, and also have someone else be responsible for operating it and owning a depreciating asset.

Yeah. Having a resident professional team only softens the blow, it doesn't make it viable. Only Toronto, Madison Square Garden in New York, and a few in the UK are going concerns which are covering their capital cost. Maybe the one in Vegas?

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by BlaineN

Actually that's not true, it happens all the time. It's just as common as it is in North America.
Smaller teams throughout Europe leaving to move to other cities, or other stadiums within the same city over financial disagreements is fairly common.

It doesn't happen with the super teams like RM, Barca, Man U, Bayern, etc.. but that would be like Leaf or Habs moving, or the NY Yankees moving.




Sports teams are private enterprises, but they offer a public benefit that's different than a regular corporation. A large amount of people in Calgary will use an arena for some purpose at some point. Even if you're not a hockey fan, there's a good chance you're a music fan. Without a pro sports team like the Flames there is no reason or financially viable business case to build an arena, so forget about concerts, monster truck rallys, lacrosse games, or ice capades, etc...

All those who think we'd be better off without the Flames need to realize that the only way we'd have ever gotten an arena in the first place or will ever get a new arena is 100% with public money. At least with a pro sports team you can have someone else pay for part of it, and also have someone else be responsible for operating it and owning a depreciating asset.

Sure, and that's why I was ok with the city's generous offer of infrastructure and $185m, matching the Flames' contribution.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

They don't right now.

And that is unnaccetable to me, they should pay tax like any other business.