Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

And also @beechwoodbus.

It’s not just negativity, it’s outright abuse of others, particularly cyclists. It’s unfortunate, I agree with his position that urban transit should be improved. But I disagree that everyone else should be ignored in the process.

Constructive discussion requires give and take; in his case there is only take so there is really no point engaging.

I think abuse is a very strong word. It really is a zero sum game for the most part. If you add a lane or priority for cyclists you are taking away from someone else. If the others are under capacity it might be a minimal impact but usually this is not the case. There are real people who drive and park, take transit and walk. All are impacted and of course this doesn't mean we should do nothing for cyclists but we need to decide our priority for each street.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I think abuse is a very strong word. It really is a zero sum game for the most part. If you add a lane or priority for cyclists you are taking away from someone else. If the others are under capacity it might be a minimal impact but usually this is not the case. There are real people who drive and park, take transit and walk. All are impacted and of course this doesn't mean we should do nothing for cyclists but we need to decide our priority for each street.

Priority should go in this order

Public transit

cycling

pedestrians

cars

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why would you say that? The problem is that we were considering a tunnel OR the original surface route. Why not both? This alone would have more than doubled capacity.

I don't believe the plan was ever to maintain a surface transitway and build a tunnel under it.

Such a project would have transferred all the problems of the surface route (except the traffic lights) into a bus tunnels deep below Albert and Slater. People would have had to wait in a fume filled cave while dozens of busses passed until their particular one arrived. It would have given half the city lung cancer.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Priority should go in this order

Public transit

cycling

pedestrians

cars

Is that just what is most convenient for you?

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Priority should go in this order

Public transit

cycling

pedestrians

cars

Pedestrians get top priority. Everyone turns into a pedestrian at the beginning and end of their journey.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Priority should go in this order

Public transit

cycling

pedestrians

cars

Actually we live in a democracy so a responsive government should be prioritizing cars, transit, pedestrians then cycling.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Catenary

You could close the upper level crossing from the mall and force people through a gate line on the lower level, but then you run into issues with accessibility and access at night. The unofficial pathway to the east end of the station is also an issue, as it would have to be blocked.

Given that the station is difficult to access from anywhere other than the mall, I don't see how closing the upper entrance would be a serious limitation to accessibility. As discussed previously, they have worked a deal for the mall to be open after hours to improve access at night, so that isn't a problem.

Originally Posted by Catenary

The general location of the station wedged between the mall and the highway and completely surrounded by buses makes it very difficult to have a fare paid zone there, which is too bad but also manageable.

I don't understand your logic here. "The general location of the station wedged between the mall and the highway and completely surrounded by buses" makes it much easier to have a fare paid zone, as access to the station from most directions is blocked.

Originally Posted by kmcamp

The other challenge was the entrance from Tremblay that's also a neighborhood access to the mall. They promised to restore it without making people up pay to enter the station. I'm sure they considered all options, but the original station wasn't designed for faregates

The easy solution to that would be to have the pathway from Tremblay run on the north side of the tracks and then north of the fare gates, giving access to both the mall (to the north) and the station (to the south). They would have had to build a pedestrian bridge over the tracks, but that would have been easy to do.

The other advantages to this would have been they could have had the pathway split just north of the 417 towards the west for a connection to Coventry Rd. They could also have had the path continue east of the station to Michael Street North and beyond. This would have helped with the issues of pedestrian access to the station from the surrounding community.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

When I went through Hurdman today, why are we not going to provide some degree of weather protection for those connecting from rail to bus? I am talking about the walkway to the bus shelters at least to keep rain and snow off of us. It seems that we are spending a fortune for weather protection for the rail line but hardly nothing for bus riders.

Still glorified shelters to me.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Actually we live in a democracy so a responsive government should be prioritizing cars, transit, pedestrians then cycling.

not if we want a healthier city

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Actually we live in a democracy so a responsive government should be prioritizing cars, transit, pedestrians then cycling.

When people chose a mode of transportation they are not voting into how they want their tax dollars to be spent. More often then not people just use what is most convenient.

Government should prioritize spending so as to improve modes of transportation that are lacking good infrastructure and also facilitate people moving out of their cars into trains and bikes so that we can have a greener and healthier society.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Given that the station is difficult to access from anywhere other than the mall, I don't see how closing the upper entrance would be a serious limitation to accessibility. As discussed previously, they have worked a deal for the mall to be open after hours to improve access at night, so that isn't a problem.



I don't understand your logic here. "The general location of the station wedged between the mall and the highway and completely surrounded by buses" makes it much easier to have a fare paid zone, as access to the station from most directions is blocked.

There is a path from the alphabet neighbourhood which I assume will reopen. My understanding is that they are supposed to build new paths to the east and west.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

not if we want a healthier city

Sitting on a bus is healthy and walking is not?

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Sitting on a bus is healthy and walking is not?

using a bus or walking is better than driving a car that was my point.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

using a bus or walking is better than driving a car that was my point.

How is riding a bus healthy?

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

The bus usually doesn't mark in front of your place of living so you are usually required to walk.

Thats true and ill accept that as answer.

[acottawa]

So driving is healthy as long as there is a big parking lot?

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by acottawa

So driving is healthy as long as there is a big parking lot?

Any mode of transport is better than diving a car.

Car drivers kill thousands of people per year cause lots of damage in many car accidents etc. Car use in my opinion should be deterred as much as possible which is why I have it last in my priority list.

http://asirt.org/Initiatives/Informing-Road-Users/Road-Safety-Facts/Road-Crash-Statistics

Those are the stats on vehicle deaths from ASIRT

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Any mode of transport is better than diving a car.

Car drivers kill thousands of people per year cause lots of damage in many car accidents etc. Car use in my opinion should be deterred as much as possible which is why I have it last in my priority list.

http://asirt.org/Initiatives/Informing-Road-Users/Road-Safety-Facts/Road-Crash-Statistics

Those are the stats on vehicle deaths from ASIRT

This is getting pretty off topic, but there were 3000 vehicle related injuries in Ottawa last year.

https://ottawa.ca/en/residents/transportation-and-parking/road-safety/annual-safety-reports

and 8000 sports and recreation injuries

https://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/rep...ts/stateofhealth_2014_infographic_en.pdf

Falls killed 95 people last year, compared to 32 killed on the roads.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Given that the station is difficult to access from anywhere other than the mall, I don't see how closing the upper entrance would be a serious limitation to accessibility. As discussed previously, they have worked a deal for the mall to be open after hours to improve access at night, so that isn't a problem.

I don't understand your logic here. "The general location of the station wedged between the mall and the highway and completely surrounded by buses" makes it much easier to have a fare paid zone, as access to the station from most directions is blocked.

Even if we have an agreement with the mall, I'm not a fan of a situation where the only access to the station is through a private mall. The pathway to the south may exist, but it is a limited use situation.

You're right that the fare paid zone is actually very easy to implement, but it severely limits local access, and assumes everyone is either going to the mall or transferring.

Tunney's has a secondary gateline at the north west corner of the bus loop for easier access from that direction. There's no place at St. Laurent to place a structure like that, as the station is surrounded by layers of roads like an onion. The unofficial path at the east end of the station is also unlikely to be closed, if only because OC staff use it to walk to 1500 St. Laurent. At the same time, there's no room there to install a gateline either.

As others mentioned, transferring outside the fare paid area isn't a big deal, especially with PRESTO and all door boarding on most of the fleet.