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  #18241  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 12:17 AM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by reparcsyks View Post
How do you think cities attract the kind of people who create businesses like Microsoft, Google and Amazon? Do you think Bezos was initially attracted to Seattle's tax structure? Have you ever researched the cost of doing in business in Silicon Valley?

Do you know why I moved here and opened a business back in 1998? Because a band I loved told me they were from here and the music scene was exciting. I didn't research tax structures back then, I wanted to be where other creatives I admired were. By the way, I grew up in this area and swore I'd never live in Philly, I hated this city in the late 80s.

If you make this city a destination for intelligent millennials, the jobs and money will flow. As a city, we need to vote out the Democratic machine and install young, progressive minds who will make this city a place that companies want to be in.
As a business owner, I think there is a difference between the tax situation and other regulations. I think we need to seriously reform the tax code; it is a problem and 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 too much net profits tax, not to mention it must be paid prospectively quarterly as an estimate, which is hard for businesses that are in their infancy and may have variable and sporadic revenue and cash flow. But neither I nor any of the other business owners I interact with in the city or the suburbs are put off by "progressive" regulations that may be worker friendly. Regulations that make it difficult and expensive to operate and add uncertainty to operations are a different story again, and Philly could probably do better in that respect as well.
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  #18242  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 12:30 AM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
The city and state budgeted for huge giveaways to Amazon. Why not use that money to lure other companies here? If the city is just going to sit and wait for prospective companies to seek out Philadelphia, then they learned nothing. They have to go out there and pitch the city, slash taxes (or at least stop raising them), cut red tape, and stop trying to turn Philadelphia into a progressive utopia.


Since Philly's offer sheet is still locked up tight I'm just guessing here, but the great give away pot to Amazon probably doesn't include that much in hard cash. Tax credits and offsets in real estate tax, job training and the like would all cost the City money, but much of it is not money they'd have if Amazon doesn't come to town. But who knows---- Personally I hope that Philly's bribe isn't the richest, because Philly can fill Amazon's RFP in ways that few if any other cities can. And if all Amazon is actually concerned about is the size of the bribe, then they can go elsewhere.

If XYZ company is interested in moving to Philly and bringing more then a few jobs with them then they would be wined and dined and be offered a package, but what Amazon claims to be looking for in their H2Q dream is very unique so the bribe they're be offered is probably very unique as well.

But if what you're saying is that Philly should be doing a better job of finding and attracting companies to move here, Da, well sure. They have staff that is suppose to be doing that job full time, but they aren't alone in attempting to land companies. Every city has active development teams, this type of recruitment is an industry unto itself.

Just look at what NJ has been willing to do in Camden, where the State seemingly is willing to do just about anything to get jobs in the City. But after years of effort and huge piles of cash spent what are their successes? A couple of local companies have or are moving into town, plus they have hooked a couple of Pa. companies to cross the river. There is a school of thought that would say this, and similar efforts, has been a very expensive failure and a redistribution of resources to the Corporate world, in as much as these companies once paid taxes, now, not so much. Just think if all those millions had been directed at start up companies and small service companies.

The idea is that Philly needs to think outside the box, and be more actively working to build the next Comcast or some bad 🞵🞵🞵 drug company, and not just waiting for some big company to come knocking. What if they made a public full court press that might take several years, just to try to get Vanguard to double it's size in Philly every year


What "red tape" are you talking about that you think might make the City less attractive to a company looking to move someplace?
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  #18243  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 2:45 AM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
As a business owner, I think there is a difference between the tax situation and other regulations. I think we need to seriously reform the tax code; it is a problem and 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 too much net profits tax, not to mention it must be paid prospectively quarterly as an estimate, which is hard for businesses that are in their infancy and may have variable and sporadic revenue and cash flow. But neither I nor any of the other business owners I interact with in the city or the suburbs are put off by "progressive" regulations that may be worker friendly. Regulations that make it difficult and expensive to operate and add uncertainty to operations are a different story again, and Philly could probably do better in that respect as well.
I think this is hopefully something that everyone can get behind. The issue of how much businesses should be taxed can be debated until the end of time. But if you can hold the overall tax income constant and shift around the calculus as to how, when and who exactly it is collected from to make things easier on businesses, it just seems inexcusable that this isn't happening.

Now as I understand it, some of these common sense changes to the tax code, that businesses and community groups support are held up at the state level. I'm not an expert on this, but isn't the city restricted by the state in their ability to tax real estate at different rates for different uses? And doesn't everyone from those in real estate, to those who run businesses, to the community at large agree that Philly's economy will be overall more healthy if some of the tax burden was shifted away from taxing business earnings and toward increasing commercial real estate taxes?

Still though I think it is 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 for the city government to just sit around and blame the state government. This city really needs to re-awaken as a political power within the state of Pennsylvania, and stop behaving so weak and myopic. The Pennsylvania state government needs to be made aware of how crucial Philadelphia's economy is to the entirety of this state. I'm tired of the excuses. Sensible business tax reform is decades overdue, I've been hearing about it since Rendell.

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...Just look at what NJ has been willing to do in Camden...
Excellent post. Agree 100%.
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  #18244  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 2:45 PM
Nova08 Nova08 is offline
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Why this exec keeps moving companies to Philly
https://technical.ly/philly/2018/08/01/goliath-technologies-moved-to-philadelphia/

This is an example of what I'm talking about. There is movement into Philly, but it's pretty small. The companies referenced in the article:

Shunra Software: ~50-100 employees
**Acquired by HP in 2014
PHD Virtual: ~250-500 employees
**Acquired by Unitrends in MA and looks like the office might have been moved up there
Goliath Technologies: ~1-50 employees
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  #18245  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 3:18 PM
McBane McBane is offline
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
What "red tape" are you talking about that you think might make the City less attractive to a company looking to move someplace?
Paid sick leave and the provision forbidding employers from asking about salary are two examples.

I'm not saying these aren't fair or that I oppose them in principle. It's just that I don't necessarily think Philly should be passing such measures that put the city at a disadvantage. At minimum, passing these laws statewide at least evens the playing field between Philadelphia and its PA suburbs. There's a reason why all the office buildings along City Ave are in the Montco side.

Even if you say, well this doesn't really inconvenience businesses too much, it certainly doesn't make it easier for them. And for a city that has a reputation as difficult place to do business, Council should be focusing more on shedding this reputation, not reinforcing it. Or at least trying to persuade state legislators to implement these progressive laws statewide so as not to put the city at a disadvantage relative to its suburban peers.
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  #18246  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 3:55 PM
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^^ Probably this.... RE: Rizzo mind set

https://billypenn.com/2015/11/13/i-take-...famous-frank-rizzo-video-35-years-later/

I still watch this clip every now and again for a good laugh.
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Yeah, because you're a crumb bum and a lush! All o' youse!
[I can tell.]


I have always loved this and say it often
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  #18247  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 7:26 PM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
As a business owner, I think there is a difference between the tax situation and other regulations. I think we need to seriously reform the tax code; it is a problem and 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 too much net profits tax, not to mention it must be paid prospectively quarterly as an estimate, which is hard for businesses that are in their infancy and may have variable and sporadic revenue and cash flow. But neither I nor any of the other business owners I interact with in the city or the suburbs are put off by "progressive" regulations that may be worker friendly. Regulations that make it difficult and expensive to operate and add uncertainty to operations are a different story again, and Philly could probably do better in that respect as well.

I completely agree with you about the business tax code. I'd rather not have any regulations and not have to pay any taxes, but that's not in the cards any time soon. But the City business tax set up is just flat out weird; if your business is large enough to have in house staff for that sortof bookkeeping or even if you can farm it out and just have somebody else tell you when and what to pay, then it's just another expense of doing business, like paying rent. But for the last 10 years I've been any where from a 1 to 5 man shop and even after being in business for 30 years, I find the City's business tax policies, forms, schedules, practices, timetables, etc. just beyond belief. My great desire and request would be to simplify the taxes, make it possible for a small business to do their own taxes (and not pay more then 15% of profit when all taxes are combined).
My only hope is to retire and head to the islands before the City catches up with me!
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  #18248  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 9:17 PM
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Knight Hospitaller Knight Hospitaller is offline
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^ Ditto. I've been a one man shop and, as much as my family was attracted to a certain neighborhood in the city, I just didn't want to deal with the taxes and regulations. We live ten minutes away from that neighborhood, but business is far simpler on this side of the line.
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  #18249  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 10:07 PM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller View Post
^ Ditto. I've been a one man shop and, as much as my family was attracted to a certain neighborhood in the city, I just didn't want to deal with the taxes and regulations. We live ten minutes away from that neighborhood, but business is far simpler on this side of the line.
That works only if you aren't doing any business within the City limits. Take one little job on this side of the line and the fun begins.
Aren't you paying higher RE tax outside the City?
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  #18250  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2018, 10:13 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
I completely agree with you about the business tax code. I'd rather not have any regulations and not have to pay any taxes, but that's not in the cards any time soon. But the City business tax set up is just flat out weird; if your business is large enough to have in house staff for that sortof bookkeeping or even if you can farm it out and just have somebody else tell you when and what to pay, then it's just another expense of doing business, like paying rent. But for the last 10 years I've been any where from a 1 to 5 man shop and even after being in business for 30 years, I find the City's business tax policies, forms, schedules, practices, timetables, etc. just beyond belief. My great desire and request would be to simplify the taxes, make it possible for a small business to do their own taxes (and not pay more then 15% of profit when all taxes are combined).
My only hope is to retire and head to the islands before the City catches up with me!
Yep. Most of our presence is in DC, where my two partners are. Our external accountants and tax guys are also in DC. They HATE dealing with Philly tax and other issues!
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  #18251  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2018, 2:54 PM
jmj jmj is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
Paid sick leave and the provision forbidding employers from asking about salary are two examples.

I'm not saying these aren't fair or that I oppose them in principle. It's just that I don't necessarily think Philly should be passing such measures that put the city at a disadvantage. At minimum, passing these laws statewide at least evens the playing field between Philadelphia and its PA suburbs. There's a reason why all the office buildings along City Ave are in the Montco side.

Even if you say, well this doesn't really inconvenience businesses too much, it certainly doesn't make it easier for them. And for a city that has a reputation as difficult place to do business, Council should be focusing more on shedding this reputation, not reinforcing it. Or at least trying to persuade state legislators to implement these progressive laws statewide so as not to put the city at a disadvantage relative to its suburban peers.
Employers who pay well and attract top talent already offer paid sick leave. They wouldn't be deterred by such rules. Retail and restaurants are the businesses that really push back against such things. HIgh tech companies and others that are very competitive often offer MORE benefits and flexibility to employees, not less.

By the time the office buildings in BC were built the Philly side of city ave was fully built out as a mostly residential neighborhood. Its not as if there was empty land on both sides and someone said "hey put all the office buildings over here because there aren't any taxes". BC is sort of the commercial focal point of Lower Merion (in terms of large buildings) while Wynnefield hardly serves such a purpose for Philly. A huge amount of prime real estate on the city side is occupied by PWD tanks, pumps, facilties and a reservoir- all predating the office boom in BC.
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  #18252  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2018, 4:03 PM
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RIP Gerry Lenfest. Did a lot for our city. Much respect.

http://www.philly.com/philly/obituaries/...iladelphia-philanthropist.html?mobi=true
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  #18253  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2018, 5:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sayitaintso View Post
In an absolute shocker:
Buh bye:
Newark
Chicago

What unique and transformative finalists said no one ever:
NOVA
MONTCO
AUSTIN
Based off what? I have seen nothing indicating this
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  #18254  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2018, 9:14 PM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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Originally Posted by McBane View Post
Paid sick leave and the provision forbidding employers from asking about salary are two examples.

I'm not saying these aren't fair or that I oppose them in principle. It's just that I don't necessarily think Philly should be passing such measures that put the city at a disadvantage. At minimum, passing these laws statewide at least evens the playing field between Philadelphia and its PA suburbs. There's a reason why all the office buildings along City Ave are in the Montco side.

Even if you say, well this doesn't really inconvenience businesses too much, it certainly doesn't make it easier for them. And for a city that has a reputation as difficult place to do business, Council should be focusing more on shedding this reputation, not reinforcing it. Or at least trying to persuade state legislators to implement these progressive laws statewide so as not to put the city at a disadvantage relative to its suburban peers.

The idea that many of the laws the city wants passed would be better served by being passed in the State house is a good theory, but in this State a statewide progressive law would be one enforces 'open carry' on the whole state or that the State Police work hand in hand with ICE.


I'm more then Ok with the City trying to continue to cut business taxes and to simply the tax code. But I don't think it would be at all possible to 'tax cut' the way to the Philly becoming a successful magnet for attracting business. Its just too easy for someplace else to have fewer taxes. But what the City can do is try very hard and in a sustained manor, try to build on its strengths---like it's history and large blocks and neighborhoods of oldness, and it's cultural presence, and public transit-----and further grow them, and at the same time work on its weaknesses, like public education.
Why are companies willing to be in NYC where taxes and regulations are tight, the cost of doing business in 2 to 3 times what it is in Philly as in real estate, and the cost of getting employees is much higher then Philly? Do you think if the City lowered taxes by another point or two that companies would come knocking on City Hall's front door looking to move here? I'm not sure what the answers are, but a race to the bottom is one the City can never win (and I doubt that you are suggesting such a race)
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  #18255  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 8:34 AM
mja mja is offline
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Based off what? I have seen nothing indicating this
He claims to have an inside guy with Amazon.

There also seems to be a lot of industry scuttlebutt that it's going to be NoVa.
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  #18256  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 6:51 PM
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He claims to have an inside guy with Amazon.

There also seems to be a lot of industry scuttlebutt that it's going to be NoVa.
Ah, so baseless claims. Cool beans
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  #18257  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 8:12 PM
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Ah, so baseless claims. Cool beans
Unverified, but not necessarily baseless. The source alleged a "slow leak" from his informants. A Philadelphia partisan like the rest of us on here, he had no incentive to inform us that we didn't make the "cut" just prior to this. What I've been hearing is pointing to the DC suburbs too. I wanted to lose to Chicago, if anyone, but indications are that we both lost.
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  #18258  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 9:02 PM
mja mja is offline
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Ah, so baseless claims. Cool beans
I mean, skepticism is healthy and normal, but my hunch is that he's on the level. He's not a new poster here, and he's cut down the list to 3, so if it turns out to be one of the other 17 cities he's going to look rather foolish.

There's even been a few dots in the press that if you connect them, seem to point to NoVa. Plus, there've been multiple posters reporting the same rumblings.

It's not like any of us here are NoVa partisans or anti-Chicago.
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  #18259  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 9:20 PM
nimshady nimshady is offline
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I didn't want to get into the Amazon talk because I think this game they are playing is getting on my nerves now. But my friend who works as a software engineer at Amazon in Seattle there says he thinks it is northern virginia too but has no concrete proof other than a hunch
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  #18260  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2018, 9:39 PM
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Kumdogmillionaire Kumdogmillionaire is offline
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Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller View Post
Unverified, but not necessarily baseless. The source alleged a "slow leak" from his informants. A Philadelphia partisan like the rest of us on here, he had no incentive to inform us that we didn't make the "cut" just prior to this. What I've been hearing is pointing to the DC suburbs too. I wanted to lose to Chicago, if anyone, but indications are that we both lost.
We've had a couple guys who have claimed to have inside sources pointing towards Chicago in the past but I've laughed them off too. At the end of the day there are only a handful of people at Amazon with any clue of what will happen. That is why I find it to be a bit comical that someone on our obscure forum would have a connection that deep. I understand everyone is saying Northern Virginia, but I'm still confused how they think that is the right place to pick. I've always thought established cities with big swaths of undeveloped, well located, access to public transportation and big research universities, and cheap land would make much more sense despite what the media has said (therefore Philly, ATL, Chicago) have consistently been more logical than the DMV area.

Tbh, I'd just rather it all be over, they are really taking their sweet time with the decision making process, which only further makes me question their deadset mindset on DMV.
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