Winnipeg | 300 Main St.- Phase II 360 Main St. | 465 Ft | 42F | Completed

[rkspec]

I guess no construction cam for this site?

Any forum members in line of site for a possible web cam lol?

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by peg

Speaking of Portage Place, is there still a chance that the pads could be developed in the future? If so wouldn't that include some sort of renovations or refreshing to the mall?

Also, does anyone have any idea what the towers were supposed to look like originally?

Should the 2 pads above Portage Place get developed, that extra traffic would be a boost to the mall and more so for cafes and eateries.
The office towers were originally 2 glass towers under 18 floors and one was suggested as a possible high end hotel that never came to be as of yet.
Rumours had swirled about hotel chains like Hilton, Hyatt etc...What a shame it never happened. The office tower and hotel would have kept the mall busy and attract more visitors and shoppers.
In the early 2000'2 there was talk of a 12 floor residential towers on the west pad but nothing yet....

[esquire]

Portage Place is such a downmarket place these days that I don't know who would pay top dollar for new office space or new condos on top of it. I guess the fact that the footings are in place for new buildings would bring down construction costs a bit, but even then I would not think anyone is really clamoring to build there.

If the MTS Centre and the return of the Jets couldn't breathe life into Portage Place I'm not sure that anything can. Considering that the mall is now over 30 years old and the owners aren't putting any money into it beyond the most basic maintenance, it's probably time to start thinking about what will come next on that site. Renovations and repurposing, or demolition and reconstruction?

[Biff]

Original render of Portage Place

[esquire]

^ That is so cool, I remember seeing renderings for proposals over the years but I don't think that I have ever seen the original concept for Portage Place's towers. Thanks for posting that, Biff!

I will add that it's kind of sad that at least one tower wasn't built. But oh well.

[BigG]

IMO one of the best things that can be done regarding PP is to demolish and redo those horrible skywalks spanning Portage. They are absolute eyesores and do not need to be that huge.

[Biff]

I would love to see 15-40 storey towers line Portage from Main to Colony. Create a feeling like a smaller Michigan Ave.

....please don't go off now in this thread about retail on Portage and how Dollarama and Dollar Tree don't belong on a fancy street.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by BigG

IMO one of the best things that can be done regarding PP is to demolish and redo those horrible skywalks spanning Portage. They are absolute eyesores and do not need to be that huge.

AMEN!

Clueless Bill Norrie promised that Portage Place would rejuvenate downtown, looks like he was 100% with all his predictions and all being wrong!

[peg]

^ Thanks for the render Biff, never seen that before, very cool!

[headhorse]

get rid of all the skywalks, they're awful for building a safe and vibrant downtown. and they look like garbage. the one between MTS centre and city place might be the worst.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

AMEN!

Clueless Bill Norrie promised that Portage Place would rejuvenate downtown, looks like he was 100% with all his predictions and all being wrong!

It's fair to say that as far as megaprojects go, Portage Place was a total bust. I'm not sure how accurate the numbers are, but according to the interwebs it cost $92 million for the mall, $300 million for the entire complex including the mall. It's like Winnipeg's Olympic Stadium fiasco in some ways.

The only part of it that has had any enduring value is the underground parking garage.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by Biff

I would love to see 15-40 storey towers line Portage from Main to Colony. Create a feeling like a smaller Michigan Ave.

....please don't go off now in this thread about retail on Portage and how Dollarama and Dollar Tree don't belong on a fancy street.

When I was in Chi Town in '07, I remember visiting a Payless Shoe Store on State St. near one of the subway stops on the Red Line.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Sure, but a condo-dominated downtown can keep any number of businesses alive and growing. The only thing it would lack would be workplaces. Between an office scenario and a condo scenario, I think the obvious choice is the latter. It's not like we can't have businesses on the ground floors, after all.

I would argue that Winnipeg has a long, long way to go before we reach any sort of residential use saturation in the core.

No definitely, Winnipeg's in no danger at all of that. I moved on from the discussion about 300 Main, so I wasn't at all saying I thought it would tilt the balance in that sense. Again to be clear - I'm a fan of the condo proposal.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by peg

Speaking of Portage Place, is there still a chance that the pads could be developed in the future? If so wouldn't that include some sort of renovations or refreshing to the mall?

Also, does anyone have any idea what the towers were supposed to look like originally?

Originally Posted by headhorse

get rid of all the skywalks, they're awful for building a safe and vibrant downtown. and they look like garbage. the one between MTS centre and city place might be the worst.

I don't mind the Skywalk system, it's helpful – but I HATE the Portage ones. They're hideous and completely ruin the view down Portage, which could be very long and scenic again. At this point they're really only benefitting PP and Investors Group employees. The Bay probably wouldn't notice any difference in (low) traffic if it was disconnected anyway. The two office buildings at Main & St. Mary would lose connection as well, but you already have to walk through the outdoor Bay Parkade to connect anyway, so I'm not sure it really matters that much.

There's even the opportunity to connect Hydro through whatever comes of the Boyd building and neighbouring future buildings too if desired. Or, those buildings on St. Mary can get connected to RBCCC which is already on the walkway, and is about to get more connected thanks to TNS. There's only the lot at Kennedy/St. Mary in the way.

Anyone know who "owns" the Portage skywalks? City or TNFP/PP? Is there some sort of Portage & Main-like clause to keep them up for a certain amount of time?

Originally Posted by esquire

It's fair to say that as far as megaprojects go, Portage Place was a total bust. I'm not sure how accurate the numbers are, but according to the interwebs it cost $92 million for the mall, $300 million for the entire complex including the mall. It's like Winnipeg's Olympic Stadium fiasco in some ways.

The only part of it that has had any enduring value is the underground parking garage.

Ok PP is still much more useful and less of a burden than the O. Not even close.

[esquire]

^ When it comes to value for money, do you the public got anything close to the nearly $300 million it spent on Portage Place? I mean, it still exists and it's mostly occupied, but I doubt the market value of that complex would be more than a small fraction of that amount... it's practically a distressed asset.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but the whole development was a terrible way to spend that kind of money.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ When it comes to value for money, do you the public got anything close to the nearly $300 million it spent on Portage Place? I mean, it still exists and it's mostly occupied, but I doubt the market value of that complex would be more than a small fraction of that amount... it's practically a distressed asset.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but the whole development was a terrible way to spend that kind of money.

$300 million (of public money?) sounds very high.

The purpose was (a) to get rid of the sleazy stuff on North Portage, (b) to bring life back to the area and (c) to ensure the long-term viability of Eaton's and The Bay by making them anchors of a big shopping centre.

I would say that on (a) it did OK, except that it created a new Node of Badness in the backwater it created north of the mall; (b) very modest success at best and (c) failed.

[Urban recluse]

So many other cities had malls built in their downtowns. It was seen as a way to compete with the 'burbs. It is becoming less of a shopping mall and more of an office complex, mixed-use if you will. As much as we joke about waterparks, this may be something that could work at PP. I could see Cityplace recapturing its previous retail base, as well as more storefronts appear along downtown streets.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

So many other cities had malls built in their downtowns. It was seen as a way to compete with the 'burbs. It is becoming less of a shopping mall and more of an office complex, mixed-use if you will. As much as we joke about waterparks, this may be something that could work at PP. I could see Cityplace recapturing its previous retail base, as well as more storefronts appear along downtown streets.

I agree. Even though it's connected by skywalk, and really only like across the street, it is kind of "detached" and out of the way of a lot of the office action downtown – not to mention where a lot of new residential and other developments are going up. If it converts into even more of an office/service complex (keeping and reorienting retail to Portage), I'm completely cool with that. We see buildings outlive their intended use and lifecycle and converted all the time – this is no different, and could end up better for all.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Andy6

$300 million (of public money?) sounds very high.

The purpose was (a) to get rid of the sleazy stuff on North Portage, (b) to bring life back to the area and (c) to ensure the long-term viability of Eaton's and The Bay by making them anchors of a big shopping centre.

I would say that on (a) it did OK, except that it created a new Node of Badness in the backwater it created north of the mall; (b) very modest success at best and (c) failed.

From what I can gather using online sources, it appears that the North Portage development (including the Place Promenade residential component) cost around $300 million. The mall itself was $92 million of that amount, with Cadillac Fairview contributing $12 million. I don't know how authoritative those numbers are but they're cited in several places including news stories, so even if they aren't 100% right I'm thinking they must be in the right ballpark.

On its own the complex was not a complete disaster, although it's clear that in hindsight, there would have been much better ways to spend a quarter of a billion dollars to help improve the downtown area. But as you have pointed out before, on paper and in theory, Portage Place was practically perfect as a model urban development of its era... even if people didn't necessarily like the financing model at the time I doubt many would have expected it to flounder the way that it ultimately did.

Anyway, my point is that I don't expect anyone to throw good money after bad by building out the pads on top of Portage Place. I'd be pretty surprised if that were to happen.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by BigG

IMO one of the best things that can be done regarding PP is to demolish and redo those horrible skywalks spanning Portage. They are absolute eyesores and do not need to be that huge.

I agree. It would be nice if they replaced them with modern looking ones similar to the skywalk connecting the older part of the convention center to the newer part.