Winnipeg | 300 Main St.- Phase II 360 Main St. | 465 Ft | 42F | Completed

[robertocarlos]

Originally Posted by cllew

Cost is $15.20 per square meter of lane occupied per month. There is also a use of street usage permit fee of $587.

I'm sure it's a fair price. Just saying people have to pay to park on Artis' property so Artis has to pay to park on our property.

As was said, Winnipeg is an expensive place to build and few get any help unless their name is TNSE. Artis is getting nothing from the city.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I definitely preferred the original proposal. Stature over height. It adds more power to the streetscape. A bulky office tower says much more about a city's "strength" than another tall slender condo.

I agree. Leaving aside market considerations, a massive office tower on that site would have made more of an impact on the surroundings (thousands of office workers each day vs. hundreds of apartment residents). The relative skyline punch would have been similar too... 400 ft. for a second office tower vs. 465 for 300 Main as proposed is not really that big of a gap.

That said, considering that the site sat empty for nearly 40 years I'm grateful that anything is getting built there period, let alone a new tallest.

[buzzg]

Does anyone know if there's a functional reason why they decided to build 300 just in the SE corner? Like was the SW corner perhaps not feasible anymore? Are they leaving it open on the chance another slim tower could go up on that side one day?

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Does anyone know if there's a functional reason why they decided to build 300 just in the SE corner? Like was the SW corner perhaps not feasible anymore? Are they leaving it open on the chance another slim tower could go up on that side one day?

Looking at the aerial shots that Wpg Guy posted on p.121, it doesn't look like there would be any space to build another tower there

the angles make its deceptive in the first two shots, but in the 3rd, 4th and 5th shots it looks like there is little practical room left

[ywgwalk]

Originally Posted by esquire

I agree. Leaving aside market considerations, a massive office tower on that site would have made more of an impact on the surroundings (thousands of office workers each day vs. hundreds of apartment residents).

I would strongly suggest that 1 downtown resident is easily worth 10 or more downtown office workers.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

That was purely my own speculation, based on this from 300main.ca as they seemed to indicate the middle portion would be the final phase



Granted this is older info (mid 2016) and I’m sure things have changed since then, it was mentioned here that 330 main may not be the last portion done, especially if therescalator going up within the year

I’m just happy this thing is finally getting on site action. The wait has been a long one

Should a major hotel with brand power be built there, that would be a game changer and make this a powerful force (corner) to be reckoned with. Shops of Winnipeg square would be busier, attract more clients with better shops and one will find better variety of dining offerings all near the complex. The mall might even need expansion. 3 HOTELS @ PORTAGE & MAIN WOULD BE GREAT PLUS IF 416 Main ever becomes a hotel, wow.....

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

I agree. Leaving aside market considerations, a massive office tower on that site would have made more of an impact on the surroundings (thousands of office workers each day vs. hundreds of apartment residents). The relative skyline punch would have been similar too... 400 ft. for a second office tower vs. 465 for 300 Main as proposed is not really that big of a gap.

That said, considering that the site sat empty for nearly 40 years I'm grateful that anything is getting built there period, let alone a new tallest.

They might have had Cargill in there instead of Cargill building its nondescript building on Graham. I don’t know what TD would then have done with the TD-Childs-Nanton corner. Maybe built something smaller, which might have been better especially if the Childs Building could have been incorporated into it. Probably some of those other smaller mirror-glass c. 1990 office buildings along Graham would never have been built as well.

[buzzg]

BAKGUY based on renderings it would seem the mall is being expanded. The 2nd-4th floors of 330 Main all show clothing stores in them. I know these renderings are a little exaggerated, but it at least shows some intention for the ideas there.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by ywgwalk

I would strongly suggest that 1 downtown resident is easily worth 10 or more downtown office workers.

I see what you're getting at but I'm not convinced. I used to work for a company downtown that spent an awful lot of money locally... there were always professional services to be obtained, conference and hotel rooms to be booked, restaurants and catering to be purchased, office supplies, furniture, you name it.

Putting it differently, would you trade the IG head office on Portage for a five storey apartment building? Because at that 10:1 ratio they should be even in terms of impact on surroundings.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by ywgwalk

I would strongly suggest that 1 downtown resident is easily worth 10 or more downtown office workers.

yep. one downtown resident shops, eats, drinks, wanders around downtown.

10 downtown office workers all leave MTS early to get to their parking spot and get a head start on the drive to the lake.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by esquire

I see what you're getting at but I'm not convinced. I used to work for a company downtown that spent an awful lot of money locally... there were always professional services to be obtained, conference and hotel rooms to be booked, restaurants and catering to be purchased, office supplies, furniture, you name it.

Putting it differently, would you trade the IG head office on Portage for a five storey apartment building? Because at that 10:1 ratio they should be even in terms of impact on surroundings.

both residential and office make a difference to downtown. but the idea that downtown businesses somehow act as a multiplier, i don't necessarily get. catering, sure. furniture? no, you're ordering from some office company in an industrial park somewhere out near the airport, and they're driving it to your loading docks.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by buzzg

BAKGUY based on renderings it would seem the mall is being expanded. The 2nd-4th floors of 330 Main all show clothing stores in them. I know these renderings are a little exaggerated, but it at least shows some intention for the ideas there.

[continuing...]

Would definitely be interesting if somehow Artis found some bigger retail tenants interested in a new mall there. Huge longshot, but if this became and expanded mall with "good" retailers, would really kill PP. You could then close off the Portage-facing units of PP to the mall, making them street-access only, and the north side units get converted to office space. I would loooove to eliminate the PP skywalks (maybe connect somehow underground) to restore the view down Portage. I would be surprised if TFNP didn't sell off their North Portage assets within the next 2 years, and I've heard there's an interested party, which would open the possibility for a complete rethinking (and possible tower expansion) of Portage Place. Things downtown, specifically retail and Portage, could look very different in 5 years IMO.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by borkborkbork

both residential and office make a difference to downtown. but the idea that downtown businesses somehow act as a multiplier, i don't necessarily get. catering, sure. furniture? no, you're ordering from some office company in an industrial park somewhere out near the airport, and they're driving it to your loading docks.

Like I said, having worked for a company headquartered downtown, I was surprised to see how much money was spent on goods and services downtown. Those types of companies spend the kind of money needed to sustain other businesses, and they employ enough people to help keep cafes, boutiques and restaurants afloat.

It is downright absurd to say that the all people who spend 40 or more hours a week downtown plus their money for lunches, services, various retail purchases, on top of all the money spent by the companies based downtown are somehow trivial or irrelevant.

[buzzg]

^Yup. Look at Parlour for example. Outside of Saturday, they’re essentially just open for typical working hours. Close at 5 pm everyday, and don’t have much space to hang around so/because people come and go.

Or look at Portage Place or Winnipeg Square... dead once workers are gone.

[GarryEllice]

Originally Posted by esquire

Like I said, having worked for a company headquartered downtown, I was surprised to see how much money was spent on goods and services downtown. Those types of companies spend the kind of money needed to sustain other businesses, and they employ enough people to help keep cafes, boutiques and restaurants afloat.

It is downright absurd to say that the all people who spend 40 or more hours a week downtown plus their money for lunches, services, various retail purchases, on top of all the money spent by the companies based downtown are somehow trivial or irrelevant.

I agree that we should be wary of thinking of residential growth as the be-all and end-all for downtown. Residents alone, even large numbers of them, don't actually sustain all that much activity. Think of how utterly dead Broadway is outside of business hours despite the large residential population there -- and, conversely, how lively the Exchange has gotten despite its relatively small residential population.

But I still think that a residential tower at 300 Main is a win, though, because the mix in that area is already weighted so heavily towards offices. Another office tower would surely be an economic positive (if there was enough demand to fill it), but I'm not sure that it would do anything to transform the vibe there, given that it's just one more of something that we already have lots of. Whereas a residential tower or two could truly change the way that the area feels.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by esquire

Like I said, having worked for a company headquartered downtown, I was surprised to see how much money was spent on goods and services downtown. Those types of companies spend the kind of money needed to sustain other businesses, and they employ enough people to help keep cafes, boutiques and restaurants afloat.

It is downright absurd to say that the all people who spend 40 or more hours a week downtown plus their money for lunches, services, various retail purchases, on top of all the money spent by the companies based downtown are somehow trivial or irrelevant.

I think it's safe to say that a combination of downtown office workers, shoppers and residents are required for a successful downtown. The more there are of each of them, the better things will be.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

I think it's safe to say that a combination of downtown office workers, shoppers and residents are required for a successful downtown. The more there are of each of them, the better things will be.

Definitely. An all-office downtown, like Calgary's, is dead after 5. But a condo-dominated downtown isn't much of a downtown at all. Downtown is more than tall buildings, and needs a diversity of uses that complement each other and keep people on the street at all hours of the day.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Definitely. An all-office downtown, like Calgary's, is dead after 5. But a condo-dominated downtown isn't much of a downtown at all. Downtown is more than tall buildings, and needs a diversity of uses that complement each other and keep people on the street at all hours of the day.

Sure, but a condo-dominated downtown can keep any number of businesses alive and growing. The only thing it would lack would be workplaces. Between an office scenario and a condo scenario, I think the obvious choice is the latter. It's not like we can't have businesses on the ground floors, after all.

I would argue that Winnipeg has a long, long way to go before we reach any sort of residential use saturation in the core.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by buzzg

[continuing...]

Would definitely be interesting if somehow Artis found some bigger retail tenants interested in a new mall there. Huge longshot, but if this became and expanded mall with "good" retailers, would really kill PP. You could then close off the Portage-facing units of PP to the mall, making them street-access only, and the north side units get converted to office space. I would loooove to eliminate the PP skywalks (maybe connect somehow underground) to restore the view down Portage. I would be surprised if TFNP didn't sell off their North Portage assets within the next 2 years, and I've heard there's an interested party, which would open the possibility for a complete rethinking (and possible tower expansion) of Portage Place. Things downtown, specifically retail and Portage, could look very different in 5 years IMO.

I agree. I was thinking that finally, this complex and retail space will look and function the way is was originally supposed to. The multi level mall would resemble those in similar sized or larger cities and could be a blow to what remains at Portage Place.This is likely to be the ephicentre for retail in downtown Winnipeg. The idea of P P doing storefronts on the avenue and office in the remainder is sad but probably the only way to go.

[peg]

Speaking of Portage Place, is there still a chance that the pads could be developed in the future? If so wouldn't that include some sort of renovations or refreshing to the mall?

Also, does anyone have any idea what the towers were supposed to look like originally?