Sacramento Proposal/Approval/Construction Thread - III - Page 342

novatone82 · #**6821** Posted **Jun 27, 2018, 3:43 AM**

Does anyone know if the p street project ever brake ground?

Pistola916 · #**6822** Posted **Jun 27, 2018, 3:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by novatone82

Does anyone know if the p street project ever brake ground?

The fence is now up if that’s any Indication Ground breaking is scheduled for fall

Pistola916 · #**6823** Posted **Jul 5, 2018, 2:33 AM**

I was skimming through the city’s development tracker page the other day and noticed the Vanir development team has withdrawn their proposal for an office tower on 601 J street.

https://sacramento.civicinsight.com/asse...9126793/DR14-337-withdrawal%20letter.pdf

But, according to the letter, Vanir mentioned they are now focusing on a mixed-use project. It’s unclear whether they will propose a high-rise or mid-rise and number of stories.

All we know at this point is they have “changed their original design concept” and plan on submitting a new application with the city at a later time.

It wouldn’t surprise me to see a 5-8 story building there. We shall see.

ozone · #**6824** Posted **Jul 5, 2018, 4:05 PM**

^^^ Honestly I’d rather have a mixed-use residential mid-rise than barely high- rise that would have not done much to engerize the area and would have made little impact on the skyline. Plus the design of the proposed tower, while sleek, glassy and geometric, was wrong for that site and Sacramento climate.

SacTownAndy · #**6825** Posted **Jul 10, 2018, 3:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistola916

I was skimming through the city’s development tracker page the other day and noticed the Vanir development team has withdrawn their proposal for an office tower on 601 J street.

https://sacramento.civicinsight.com/asse...9126793/DR14-337-withdrawal%20letter.pdf

But, according to the letter, Vanir mentioned they are now focusing on a mixed-use project. It’s unclear whether they will propose a high-rise or mid-rise and number of stories.

All we know at this point is they have “changed their original design concept” and plan on submitting a new application with the city at a later time.

It wouldn’t surprise me to see a 5-8 story building there. We shall see.

I read the article in the Biz Journal and it sounds like they couldn't get enough office pre-leasing to get the tower off the ground. They're now looking at a "Sawyer-like" mixed-use project with office (Vanir taking some office space), and hotel or residential.

j_deguzman10 · #**6826** Posted **Jul 10, 2018, 4:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistola916

I was skimming through the city’s development tracker page the other day and noticed the Vanir development team has withdrawn their proposal for an office tower on 601 J street.

https://sacramento.civicinsight.com/asse...9126793/DR14-337-withdrawal%20letter.pdf

But, according to the letter, Vanir mentioned they are now focusing on a mixed-use project. It’s unclear whether they will propose a high-rise or mid-rise and number of stories.

All we know at this point is they have “changed their original design concept” and plan on submitting a new application with the city at a later time.

It wouldn’t surprise me to see a 5-8 story building there. We shall see.

I think that the future of Sacramento and its skyline will depend on mixed use projects. Like people have said, demand is high, but it’s j the wrong time to build, especially in the office sector. Maybe incorporating retail, office, and residential will allow the developers and builders to make a profit?

Regarding the new mixed used proposal, I actually think the tower might reach at least the same height if not taller than the Sawyer. If Vanir is looking to make a tower similar to the Sawyer, I would at least expect 4 stories of office, around 10-12ish for hotels, and maybe 8-14 for residential, because you gotta remember that the Vanir lot sits on a kitty corner and it’s length to width ratio is much smaller than the Sawyers, meaning that to make a profit Vanir needs to build tall to earn profit (less space to build units) and construction costs will likely be less than the Sawyers. So on the contrary, I wouldn’t be surprised to see at least a 20 story for the new proposal, so at around 300 feet (sawyer’s is like 214).

snfenoc · #**6827** Posted **Jul 10, 2018, 6:42 PM**

Yeah, after reading the SBJ article, I am reminded of a proposal from about 15 years ago - Metro Place. It was to be located at Sacramento's original "hole in the ground" at 8th and J - now a mid-rise apartment complex (800 J Lofts). The developer wanted housing, office and retail. I always liked the idea of a reasonably-sized high rise, with a combination of uses. That way, you can still get it built, even with so-so demand. Of course, I am thinking that an office, retail, housing, and hotel combo tower might be a little tricky, design-wise. Still, if it works, that may be a good model for other proposals and empty sites. It may be a lot easier to fill 50,000 - 100,000 square feet of office, 50 condos and 150 hotel rooms than having to fill 350,000 square feet of office, or 150 condos, or 400 hotel rooms. (Yes, we’ve seen a more recent office, hotel, condo, and retail project that was actually built- the Sawyer. However, I’m not ready to call it a success, as it is mired in liens and lawsuits. Also, it’s part of a larger project whose crown jewel (the arena) was heavily subsidized. Also, it’s ugly.)

I remain optimistic about Sacramento's ability to support a high-rise office tower (or two) sometime in the next 1-3 years... IF things keep looking up in terms of net absorption and cost per square foot. With regard to Vanir tower (and other proposals), I think the city is putting on a lot of pressure to build something...anything! Consequently, Vanir has changed its strategy and is looking for something that can get built sooner rather than later. Also, it's possible that the old Towers on Crapitol Mall site is a much stronger target for a larger office development. (However, I think... well, HOPE... some housing and/or retail elements wiil be included). If I am Vanir, I may be thinking that diversifying the plan is better than competing head-on? I've often wondered if some of Sacramento's big projects were stalled, in part, because they were competing too much with each other for the same, limited market.

In other SBJ news, I read that the Sacramento Commons developer, Weidner Apartment Homes, has filed an application with the city for permits to construct a mid-rise apartment building at the northeastern portion of the Crapitol Towers superblock. The building would be 7 stories, contain 218 apartments and have ground floor retail. This could be the start of something beautiful... or years of anguish.

ozone · #**6828** Posted **Jul 11, 2018, 12:14 AM**

^^^ In case you missed it. Sacramento Commons owners have file for building permits.As snfenoc alluded to, SacMod, the self-appointed arbiters of historical worth (everything from 50's-early 70's is sacred) are sure to try and stop this.

snfenoc · #**6829** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 1:45 AM**

I just read in the SBJ that another student apartment complex has been proposed for the 65th and Folsom area. Specifically, this 60-unit complex, proposed by TriCap Development, would be at 6325 and 6329 Elvas Avenue.

If all these proposals get built (I have to assume that a few more would be on the way as well), that area is going to be hopping with students.

My only complaint with this proposal is that I don't see any mention of retail/restaurant space being included. Also, it's for students-only. (I think another one of the 65th/Folsom area proposals is similar: no retail and students-only.) It's not a terrible proposal; but I'd just prefer to see projects that attract everyone. Sac state has plenty of available land on-campus. A student dormitory should go there. Off campus apartments should be open to all and have amenities (i.e., retail) that attract all.

Sachornet · #**6830** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 7:31 PM**

Sound the alarms... we have news on the Metropolitan site at 10th and J.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article214774190.html

TWAK · #**6831** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 7:47 PM**

what round of proposals was this with? The Towers/Aura group?

j_deguzman10 · #**6832** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 7:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sachornet

Sound the alarms... we have news on the Metropolitan site at 10th and J.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article214774190.html

OMG OMG OMG this is amazing!!!! The metropolitan might actually have a chance to get built or if not the site the metropolitan sits on will finally be redeveloped!

j_deguzman10 · #**6833** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 7:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK

what round of proposals was this with? The Towers/Aura group?

The Metropolitan was first proposed in 2008 but the economy and housing market crashed badly so it hasn’t gotten built and has been continuously been put on hold. But yes this was with the towers and aura proposal (both are now considered dead).

Sachornet · #**6834** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 8:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by j_deguzman10

OMG OMG OMG this is amazing!!!! The metropolitan might actually have a chance to get built or if not the site the metropolitan sits on will finally be redeveloped!

Anyone have predictions on what the proposed/revised development will be? # of stories? Obviously, 40 would be ideal... but can the market support it?

Sounds like it'll be a combination of a hotel and apartment/condo units.

snfenoc · #**6835** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 8:18 PM**

Wow! This is intriguing. Of course, we had to know that something was going to happen, given that the entitlements for The Metropolitan were set to run out this month, and the city was focussing heavily on the property.

After reading the article, it looks like Sotiris Kolokotronis (SKK Development) has taken the lead role in developing the property at 10th and J. Also, according to the Mayor's Twitter, Kolokotronis will lead the development team to bring a hotel and apartment building to that corner.

According to the SBJ, John Saca will remain the property's owner.

Kolokotronis lost his shirt in the economic downturn a decade ago. He built the L Street Lofts, which he lost to foreclosure or bankruptcy. Yet, SKK Development has bounced back in a big way. Currently, SKK is rehabbing the old Clarion Hotel and building a large, mixed use apartment building across 16th Street. In addition to what is happening on 16th street, SKK is contributing to the QRS renaissance with the midtown quarters projects. Additionally, it has a number of other proposals (large, medium and small) in the pipeline. I like that "never say, 'die'" attitude. It certainly bodes well for 10th and J, which needs a strong, experienced hand to guide the project.

We shall see if the project remains a 40 story building, or if it is scaled down. Saca and SKK aren't talking to the media right now. However, demand for hotel rooms and housing certainly exists. It's not ridiculous demand, but it's there; so I have to assume the building(s) would be sizable. I have to wonder if the city is involved with the development, somehow. Didn't the Mayor want to set aside $10-20 million to help jumpstart certain projects? Given 10th and J's proximity to the convention center, I'm thinking that the hotel portion of the proposal may get a boost from the city?

creamcityleo79 · #**6836** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 8:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sachornet

Sound the alarms... we have news on the Metropolitan site at 10th and J.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article214774190.html

I lost my mind with excitement when I got this alert!

j_deguzman10 · #**6837** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 8:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sachornet

Anyone have predictions on what the proposed/revised development will be? # of stories? Obviously, 40 would be ideal... but can the market support it?

Sounds like it'll be a combination of a hotel and apartment/condo units.

Like snfenoc said before the demand certainly is there without a doubt, but I think it’s a question on if the demand is enough to justify 40 stories. I remember reading that hotel occupancy is around 80 percent in the region and with no major hotel developments coming up other than sutter, maybe the convention center hotel, and a bunch of Home2Suites the hotel option for the Metropolitan is certainly an option. Also, prices for hotels is up around 140 I think per night and the Metropolitan will boost that significantly because it will be an upscale hotel like the Sawyer.

If the plan doesn’t work out and the Metropolitan is pulled I think that the development team will make a scaled down version of the project like what Vanir is doing with their proposal. As for the size, idk but I think a viable range if the project is scaled down would be around 14 (Shorenstein’s upper proposal for 601 Capitol Mall) all the way up to 40, which is where the current proposal is.

Sachornet · #**6838** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 8:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by j_deguzman10

Like snfenoc said before the demand certainly is there without a doubt, but I think it’s a question on if the demand is enough to justify 40 stories. I remember reading that hotel occupancy is around 80 percent in the region and with no major hotel developments coming up other than sutter, maybe the convention center hotel, and a bunch of Home2Suites the hotel option for the Metropolitan is certainly an option. Also, prices for hotels is up around 140 I think per night and the Metropolitan will boost that significantly because it will be an upscale hotel like the Sawyer.

If the plan doesn’t work out and the Metropolitan is pulled I think that the development team will make a scaled down version of the project like what Vanir is doing with their proposal. As for the size, idk but I think a viable range if the project is scaled down would be around 14 (Shorenstein’s upper proposal for 601 Capitol Mall) all the way up to 40, which is where the current proposal is.

Here are some just released details: https://twitter.com/NickMiller510/status/1017507499279171584

It's a joint venture project with Kolokotronis, Saca, and Grupe Company. Ground floor retail, 200 room hotel, and 250 apartment units.

snfenoc · #**6839** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 8:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sachornet

Here are some just released details: https://twitter.com/NickMiller510/status/1017507499279171584

It's a joint venture project with Kolokotronis, Saca, and Grupe Company. Ground floor retail, 200 room hotel, and 250 apartment units.

That many units with that many hotel rooms could definitely require a 40-story building.

j_deguzman10 · #**6840** Posted **Jul 12, 2018, 8:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by snfenoc

That many units with that many hotel rooms could definitely require a 40-story building.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it exceeds 40 stories and goes taller, with SKK’s magic I think they could build higher.