Winnipeg Construction IX

[bomberjet]

When the intersection is open, I will purposely cross the street for my weekly meetings just to piss everyone off who opposes it.

[dmacc]

3 minutes of efficiency on a street that see 30,000 vehicles a day amounts to 90,000 minutes saved per day. if 10% of that is business transportation it amounts to 9,000 minutes. Times that by a 5 day work week and a 52 week year and you have 2.34 million hours saved. Times that by an average wage of the employees at $20 an hour? That would amount to 46.8 million dollars in efficiency. I think those are all fairly conservative number. It helps show how the compounding effect can have major value.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Opening Portage and Main will do more harm than good to downtown Winnipeg.

This is a completely incorrect statement, and Winnipeggers should

a) know better
b) be open-minded enough to reconsider

Originally Posted by CoryB

From my office I can see Portage and Main. When I am walking on street level I am commonly the only pedestrian on a whole block or more. Not sure where you are finding all these "pedestrians" but they definitely are not around Portage and Main. Opening Portage and Main isn't going to change people from non-pedestrians into pedestrians crossing Portage and Main frequently and in high volumes.



Additional traffic delays from opening Portage and Main leading to more businesses relocating their offices to the suburbs. Just look at the insurance office that moved their headquarters to Polo Park or all the offices in the Kennaston business park as examples of what will increasingly happen if travelling to/from downtown is made more difficult. Sure traffic will balance out and "people will adjust" over time but that is likely because they no longer come downtown ever, except for the off Jets games.

1. I work downtown and frequent the intersection on foot and by car daily. Plenty of people at stret level nearby, but you ignore the most obvious factor... 5 large office buildings plus another tallest, and a future hotel in addition to an existing one. That's a TON of people that would cross at street level daily. While national retail is a finicky game, ground floor retail at P+M should be among the most deisrable space in the city, atleast for independent businesses. Except there's no foot traffic.

2. Access and density are infinitely stronger indicators of where a business goes. Density is highest at P+M. But ZERO access. While there is such thing as too much traffic, too much is better than too little anyway. Any business owner would love to see more cars and more pedestrians in front of their door. Common sense.

Originally Posted by Ando

Sorry DMAC, didn't mean to single you out. It's just an general observation that came to mind actually after CoryB started weighing in. The "right wing" types on here tend to be anti rapid transit, anti bikes and bike lanes, anti-opening up P&M, anti-downtown and anti anything that might be considered new and cultural like museums, parks etc. They just want spend all the $$ fixing their precious potholes so they get home faster and drink budweiser around the firepit. Some of them don't live in the city anymore and can't wait until they can make their escape. Like I said, just a trend I noticed that seems to be present.

I find that kinda odd... Right wing is generally pro business and part of running a business involves investing into it, to enable growth. Same for any city. Want our economy to grow? Invest in it. That includes intelligent investment into the city.

I'm not the biggest on art galleries, but can appreciate museums somewhat, cost depending, but parks are a necessity

Originally Posted by DancingDuck

Also could a mod perhaps move all the P+M post to the proper thread?

The "tear down the barricades" types want chaos not just on P+M, but in SSP as well haha

[Biff]

Originally Posted by dmacc

3 minutes of efficiency on a street that see 30,000 vehicles a day amounts to 90,000 minutes saved per day. if 10% of that is business transportation it amounts to 9,000 minutes. Times that by a 5 day work week and a 52 week year and you have 2.34 million hours saved. Times that by an average wage of the employees at $20 an hour? That would amount to 46.8 million dollars in efficiency. I think those are all fairly conservative number. It helps show how the compounding effect can have major value.

By that measure then we should eliminate all people from the streets, off ramps and overpassess everywhere, maybe put people in pneumatic tubes because apparently life is only for efficiency. I try not to comment on this too much because it is such a silly argument. It is just a intersection. The two streets are not freeways where this will be the only impediment. The budget that everyone thinks will save the worlds problems if not used for P&M will be used more or less for having to repair, waterproof and replace the existing barriers anyway.

If we open the street and all commerce in Winnipeg comes to a stop and people can't see their loved ones for weeks because they are stuck in traffic, guess what....overnight they could put up barricades and close it up again.

What do we have to lose by trying!!!!

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Bring it back around by reminding people that Hyatt is going up, Richardson and 201 are apparently reorienting their buildings to P&M, Fairmont may be expanding, Scotiabank is in line for a change, buildings at 300 & 330 Main, so there will be a lot more people looking to directly cross soon, if not already. Don't forget all the empty lots in the immediate vicinity that will suddenly become much more attractive to develop – have to think this played into Hyatt's decision.

I would be interested to know what an expanded FAIRMONT might look like?
Number of rooms added, expansion in height of existing tower or more likely an additional tower? This could be a major deal in the hospitality industry and possibly a welcome makeover for this building!

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by Biff

By that measure then we should eliminate all people from the streets, off ramps and overpassess everywhere, maybe put people in pneumatic tubes because apparently life is only for efficiency. I try not to comment on this too much because it is such a silly argument. It is just a intersection. The two streets are not freeways where this will be the only impediment. The budget that everyone thinks will save the worlds problems if not used for P&M will be used more or less for having to repair, waterproof and replace the existing barriers anyway.

If we open the street and all commerce in Winnipeg comes to a stop and people can't see their loved ones for weeks because they are stuck in traffic, guess what....overnight they could put up barricades and close it up again.

What do we have to lose by trying!!!!

I believe growth should be a major weighted factor in all decisions made in this city. One of the best things for growth is efficiency. Will opening P&M increase growth? I doubt it. the lose in efficiency and the lose to WS likely offset the increased business at street level. I think I would be more open to opening P&M if the street/sidewalk was at an end of life stage. In which case the replacement would be warranted and the opening of the street would be part of the already necessary replacement. Much like the widening of Pembina at the Jubilee underpass.

People should also be a factor in all decisions but can't be the only factor. I believe all considerations should be made and that only having a people approach to an intersection to be close minded. Downtown intersections are the meeting place of many different forms of interaction. People, cyclist, drivers business (driving and Shops) and all require an equal vote at the table.

[dmacc]

^^^ I might be out numbered in my opinion on here though. How about this, you get your P&M and I get an impressive new Route 90?

[Biff]

Originally Posted by dmacc

I think I would be more open to opening P&M if the street/sidewalk was at an end of life stage. In which case the replacement would be warranted and the opening of the street would be part of the already necessary replacement.

...but this is exactly where we are at. The barriers need to be replaced and there is extensive waterproofing necessary as was proven about a month ago with the extensive flooding and water damage to the Lombard portion of the underground concourse.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by Biff

...but this is exactly where we are at. The barriers need to be replaced and there is extensive waterproofing necessary as was proven about a month ago with the extensive flooding and water damage to the Lombard portion of the underground concourse.

Really? the barriers are at the end of their life? They look fine to me but if that is the case then now would be the time to look at it. I still think it's a mistake but at least it's not a complete waste of capital if the project moves ahead.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Really? the barriers are at the end of their life? They look fine to me but if that is the case then now would be the time to look at it. I still think it's a mistake but at least it's not a complete waste of capital if the project moves ahead.

There are places I have seen the rebar exposed at street level due to winter salt and I am sure that its worse below grade.

The concourse structure is sort of like all the parking structures that had to be rebuilt over the last 1o years, the surface looked good but the concrete was rotten internally.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Really? the barriers are at the end of their life? They look fine to me but if that is the case then now would be the time to look at it. I still think it's a mistake but at least it's not a complete waste of capital if the project moves ahead.

There were pictures posted last fall by the city it leaks so bad there is extensive water damage and black mould in the back rooms. The barriers have to be removed to replace the waterproofing membrane. Also if you walk around there they are not in good shape at all.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by WpG_GuY

There were pictures posted last fall by the city it leaks so bad there is extensive water damage and black mould in the back rooms. The barriers have to be removed to replace the waterproofing membrane. Also if you walk around there they are not in good shape at all.

Well I guess the end of life part of my argument doesn't stand. If it were to be done then now would be the time... if it were worth it.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Really? the barriers are at the end of their life? They look fine to me but if that is the case then now would be the time to look at it. I still think it's a mistake but at least it's not a complete waste of capital if the project moves ahead.

"They look fine to me". I'm guessing you're not an engineer.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by Ando

"They look fine to me". I'm guessing you're not an engineer.

haha, nope. Essentially I do value analysis, as you can probably tell. Everything I do revolves around Return on Investment/value for money. I like to think I am the realist who puts peoples dreams into check and provide a sober second thought.

[Ando]

Originally Posted by dmacc

haha, nope. Essentially I do value analysis, as you can probably tell. Everything I do revolves around Return on Investment/value for money. I like to think I am the realist who puts peoples dreams into check and provide a sober second thought.

"sober second thought". You're not a Senator are you?

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by Ando

"sober second thought". You're not a Senator are you?

Hi!!! I'm Mike Duffy, how did you guess?

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by dmacc

^^^ I might be out numbered in my opinion on here though. How about this, you get your P&M and I get an impressive new Route 90?

Now we're finally being reasonable. If we are really concerned about freight and transport efficiency in the city let's fix up our half-assed ring road instead of continuing to jam an even more half-assed interchange thru P&M. Let route 90 be for cars and downtown be for people.

[bomberjet]

Condition assessment out for the concourse.

http://www.winnipeg.ca/MatMgt/FolderContents.asp?FOLDER_NAME=614-2018&YEAR=2018

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Bring it back around by reminding people that Hyatt is going up, Richardson and 201 are apparently reorienting their buildings to P&M, Fairmont may be expanding, Scotiabank is in line for a change, buildings at 300 & 330 Main, so there will be a lot more people looking to directly cross soon, if not already. Don't forget all the empty lots in the immediate vicinity that will suddenly become much more attractive to develop – have to think this played into Hyatt's decision.

Have you heard something about this, buzzg? Ever since the outside of 360 Main was re-clad, the exterior of the Scotiabank building pales by comparison now. Since Artis doesn't own the Scotiabank property they don't have an obligation to re-clad that building to match the exterior of 360 Main. Nevertheless, it sure would be nice to see Scotiabank do something on their own to update the look of their building.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

Have you heard something about this, buzzg? Ever since the outside of 360 Main was re-clad, the exterior of the Scotiabank building pales by comparison now. Since Artis doesn't own the Scotiabank property they don't have an obligation to re-clad that building to match the exterior of 360 Main. Nevertheless, it sure would be nice to see Scotiabank do something on their own to update the look of their building.

^ he may have been referring to Scotiabank moving into TNS

but I'm probably wrong lol (considering it's referring to P&M activity)